O/A filler rod question

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I've been buying this rg-45 gas filler rod for welding at tractor supply co. and it's been working fine. The only thing is it's crazy expensive for the little amount you get. 12 ct. x 18" rods. So, I decided to go to my local welding supplier to see if they had a bulk box. Well, when I asked the guy if they carried rg-45 gas filler rod (which btw is just basic steel rod) he got a perplexed look on his face. He said, "you mean brazing rod, right?" I told him no and explained to him I just needed a steel filler rod used for gas welding. He was still confused and didn't have a clue what I was talking about. He then insisted that I buy some flux. I then explained that flux is unnecessary when gas welding. He then took me to the storage area in the back and showed me some steel filler rods. They were marked for tig use but he assured me those would work the same since they were made of steel. When we came back up front he checked with another guy who was working behind the counter just to make sure they were "steel" filler rod and he agreed and said it would be fine for gas welding mild steel. The thing was though, this other guy was perplexed as well as to why somebody would want to buy filler rod for gas welding. Both guys had no clue and I made a mention to both of them that gas welding is not as popular as most other methods but it's still around. I was just shocked at how someone could work at a welding supply store and not be familiar with gas welding filler rod. To top it off, when I got home I checked the stamp on the rod and googled it and it's bronze brazing rod but I decided to keep them since I want to learn to braze anyways. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced a lack of knowledge on some of the welding suppliers about products. I felt like I knew more about the products they were selling than they did. My frustration ran deep with this one. Oh, Well.
Reply:While I cannot say wether or not TIG rod can or should be used for O/A welding, I mean, I have seen coat hangers used so I am sure TIG rod would work, whether its right or not, I dunno.But I sympathize with being frustrated with those guys sometimes. I had to go to a welding supply place while I was on the road once and was already having a crappy day.After standing there for ten minutes listening to this guy on the phone giving his buddy a description of the "hos" that was "out the club" the night before, He was able to help me.Me:Hello, I need a spool of .035 Lincoln L-56, do you have one?Guy:What are you doing?Me:Standing in your store trying to buy a spool of wire.Guy:What is it for?Me:The welder, do you have any?Guy:Yeah, what are you welding?Me:Steel. Parts made from steel. They need to be welded together.Guy:So this is for a MIG welder? Are you using Flux-core?Me:No, I was using .035 L-56 but I ran out. So I need more. The questions went on and on. But you get the idea. Knuckleheads. I admit, I probably, ok I DID give him a wee bit of an attitude but hey, Im working here.Yup
Reply:Those are two pretty sad stories. Tx, as you obviously know, RG45 is THE O/A rod. Technically, TIG rod should work fine with O/A. But TIG will NOT work with RG45. TIG needs the deoxidizers in ERxxS.And I'm just a hobby guy.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Thanks for the replies. I think I just ran into some bad advice and maybe even some lack of knowledge on their part as far as gas welding goes. Gotta watch out for that. But I'll remember that. So, you can gas weld with tig rod but not tig weld with gas rod. I guess I have no choice but to learn brazing as I now have $30 of brazing rod by mistake. lol.
Reply:thats ridiculous that they had no idea what RG-45 is, but it doesn't surprise me. Most of the guys that work in welding stores, arent welders, they salesman and cashier jockeys.In my opinion, airgas is about the worst, they know less than nothing.  I go to a smaller independent shop, they dont have as much stuff, but the one guy who works there is awesome and will get me whatever i need.  He gets his gas from praxair, and sells it cheaper than praxair does, go figure.
Reply:All you can do is keep your chin up, do the right thing,  teach your kids which way is up, and hope someone notices.I used to get really frustrated with stupidity, but anymore, I try to do what I can to teach a bit. I feel your pain.
Reply:We are surrounded by ignorance.If the staff does not know about welding filler wires and won't learn to look them up,how many other things are they messing up on?It is good to ask questions and look things up. It could save your life someday.The steel wire for welding O/A is a steel copper coated wire.The TIG steel filler wire (ER70S-2) is a copper coated wire.too. The copper helps prevent corrosion.The brass brazing wire will need to be dipped ito a can of flux.Brazing is not as strong as welding. With brazing you are using a different metal to join the parent material.
Reply:Thanks guys, I think I'll be more cautious from now on. It was just a supplier, not a welding shop so that explains why they responded like they didn't know. Because they didn't! Had it been the local welding shop, those guys would probably know. You live You learn.
Reply:Back home the LWS would know exactly what you were needing. Down here you might as well go online. I do agree that AirGas is the worst. On my 3rd trip attempting to get the correct parts for my tig torches I gave up and told the guy to give me his profax book. Wasted 3 weeks getting the wrong parts when they had the correct ones in stock the whole time. One torch was a radnor - their house brand even.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Actually there are 3 common O/A fillers for steel:Oxweld #7 ( RG-45)Oxweld #1 (RG-60)Oxweld 32-CMS ( RG-65)Tig filler is not suitable for O/A since it contains de-oxidizers and such that are not needed with the O/A process. Generally it is found that Tig filler acts "sluggish" with O/A welding. You want to really raise some eyebrows at the welding shop, ask for some aluminum welding flux for O/A welding. I wouldnt say these people are dumb...just narrow minded and blinded by the big shiny welding machines.
Reply:I agree. Oh, and I've read up about the rg-60 rod. Supposed to have more tensile strength. For now though the rg-45 is working good. Thanks for the replies.
Reply:Since mild steel is about 36,000; RG-60 is a mystery to me. It flows worse than RG-45 and sparks like a 4th of July sparkler. When I accidently picked up a piece in weld class, my instructor said "This stuff welds funny, use the RG-45." IMHO9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverSince mild steel is about 36,000; RG-60 is a mystery to me. It flows worse than RG-45 and sparks like a 4th of July sparkler. When I accidently picked up a piece in weld class, my instructor said "This stuff welds funny, use the RG-45." IMHO
Reply:Regarding LWS sales people, when I was a Linde factory rep, one of the guys at a LWS in my territory was a business major from the same school I graduated in welding engineering from.  He was smart, he just had ZERO welding experience.  He had a steep learning curve, and had to rely on a lot of printed sales literature.  It took him several years to get up to speed technically.  He was the assistant store manager too - good with supply contracts and accounting stuff, just not very technical.
Reply:I recently bought 10lbs. of rg-45 rod from weldingsupply.com for $1.50/lb since I don't have a local bulk supplier. They called it the "House Brand" but it was AWS certified. The brand name they carried was Lincoln rg-45 for about $5/lb. Almost every other seller I checked was selling for about $4-6/lb. I thought I would share that since I know I go through rod like crazy and it's good to find it cheap.
Reply:I'll throw this info on mild steel in so everyone can decide for their selves what strength rod to weld with.Low carbon (mild) steel in the 0.15 to 0.30% carbon content range is used in making steel bars, plates, and structural shapes. SAE 1015 steel contains 0.15-.025% carbon and has a yield point of 30,000 with a tensile strength og 60,000. SAE 1025 steel contains 0.20 to 0.30% carbon and has a yeild strength of 33,000 and a tensile strength of67,000. Taken directly from "Metals And How To Weld Them" by T. B. Jefferson and available from The James F. Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation. One of my old reference books.
Reply:txwldr99 how does that  house rod flow for you?
Reply:the local LWS acctually told me you couldn't weld with an O/A setup. They had the RG60 i was looking for in stock though... after they got the boss out there to tell them.they also told me i was crazy to weld AL. they said "it won't be very strong, you really need to buy a tig welder to do it right" funny thing is that brazed AL comes out stronger than welded ALSame shop that told me a #1 victor tip would weld 1/4" iron (this was the boss). i'm not even sure if a #1 could heat the 1/4" enough to braze it togeather. (i weld exhaust with #1)Oh, i mentioned cutting fishmouths in pipes i was buying one day, they all got crazy looks on their face first didn't know what a fishmouth was, then realized i was talking about notching (i was always told fishmouths) and asked me why i bought such an expensive tool for that, but didn't own an electric welder. i told them i just use my drillpress and a large pressvice... they said they didn't know you could do that... ------About tig rod:i was told by a welding inspector friend that Tig rod will work just fine with an O/A torch, and that they are better rods than the typical RG rod (better controlled), but that it was unlikly i would do anything with an O/A that would justify useing them.
Reply:makoman:Who said all that was torch welded was mild steel?Good point. CraigTaken directly from "Metals And How To Weld Them" by T. B. Jefferson and available from The James F. Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation. One of my old reference books.Oldtimer: I have that book. I just pulled it out and on the inside cover I had written:"Read, cover to cover. Finished 7-18-97" It's the Second EditionJanuary 1990Last edited by Craig in Denver; 06-14-2008 at 02:59 PM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Crimson, I've been lucky and never had to deal with that. The owner of my local LWS had owned the place for years before I started welding and knew what he was doing. When he died his son took over and he had grown up in the store so he knows what is going on too.Craig, I looked and my copy is the Second Edition, 1972.
Reply:Crimson, funny how thing have different names in different parts of the country. Those fishmouths are saddles here. The first time I saw them referred to as fishmouths was in an article I read about building dune buggy frames. I've cut a jillion of them but used a cutting torch on almost all of them. I've sawed some on a cutoff saw when working with really thin tubing. I've never used a notcher or ever even seen one, just pictures of them.
Reply:Just ordered the house rod a few days ago. Should be in by Monday so I'll re-post after I get a chance to use it.
Reply:Originally Posted by CrimsonWelder------About tig rod:i was told by a welding inspector friend that Tig rod will work just fine with an O/A torch, and that they are better rods than the typical RG rod (better controlled), but that it was unlikly i would do anything with an O/A that would justify useing them.
Reply:Originally Posted by TxWelder99I recently bought 10lbs. of rg-45 rod from weldingsupply.com for $1.50/lb since I don't have a local bulk supplier. They called it the "House Brand" but it was AWS certified. The brand name they carried was Lincoln rg-45 for about $5/lb. Almost every other seller I checked was selling for about $4-6/lb. I thought I would share that since I know I go through rod like crazy and it's good to find it cheap.
Reply:Originally Posted by RowdiusSorry for bumping such an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone has used any of this brand rod TxWelder99 is talking about, because it is crazy cheap compared to what I pay at TSC.  It works out (even with shipping charges) that buying through weldingsupply.com saves me $4.50 a pound on a 10 pound order.  It is around $7 a lb at TSC.Originally Posted by smyrna5Sounds like a great price to me. I haven't used any, but let us know if it works ok. I am just learning O/A and paid about $6 for a pound of Radnor R45 at AirGas.
Reply:Any updates as to how the Weldingsupply house brand rods work? ...I have been there, done that ... I have taken the scars and left the smiles to prove it ...  U.S. Marine extraordinaire ...Wars fought, tigers tamed, revolutions started, bars emptied, alligators castrated ...