TIG filler metal quality

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I was reading through a few welding books, and one mentioned that just plain TIG and MIG wire (copper coated) will not produce great quality welds.  This is in reference to steel.  I have been using good quality MIG wire and TIG rod from the local supplier, all coated, but was wondering if there is better material I should be using.  I'M really just doing sheet metal, nothing really structural.  Does it make a big difference in quality of the weld?. I live in the sticks, so if anyone knows of a good online source for the non-coated material.ThanksDavid
Reply:I dont know what this book is referring to.  ER70S wire is what you want.  it will will have a silicon designator which is added tothe end, ER70S-3, or ER70S-6.  There are others, but these are the most common.  As far as quality, I suppose some makers will be slighty higher quality, but all are required to meet specification, and if they dont I wouldnt buy them.  I have never seen a welding supply carry filler metal not meeting specs for all major codes.  I have read plenty of welding books, I find them very frustrating.  They are often written by folks who arent welders, of if they are, they dont have the theoritical side, perhaps just the practical.  Sometimes, they lack in much of the practical.  Most welders are really specialized.   They know a certain area of welding.  They are really good in what they do, but they dont know a lot outside of that box.  I find nothing wrong wiht coated wire.   The copper is there to keep the filler metal from rusting.   Nothing wrong with itGood luck.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:i've actually used mig wire (.030 from a gas machine) to do tig welding of very small crs. parts...works great in a pinch......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:i like to use national standard wire it's non coated and in my opinion is the best wire you can weld withChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:I went and looked back where I saw the reference.  It was in "Performance Welding" by R. Finch.It mentions that the copper coating is there to prolong the manufacturer's dies,  lubricants are also added. It then goes on to say  "Microscopically the copper does not adhere to the metal rod, so it cannot provide corrosion protection".I use copper coated  MIG wire all the time for sheet metal and it seems to standing the test of time.  David
Reply:Originally Posted by Cobra06I went and looked back where I saw the reference.  It was in "Performance Welding" by R. Finch.It mentions that the copper coating is there to prolong the manufacturer's dies,  lubricants are also added. It then goes on to say  "Microscopically the copper does not adhere to the metal rod, so it cannot provide corrosion protection".I use copper coated  MIG wire all the time for sheet metal and it seems to standing the test of time.  David
Reply:Don't shoot the messengerDoesn't make sense to me either.  But if it's in a book or on the Internet it must be true...
Reply:I have always used uncoated wire as well. I too have used mig wire to tig with. Works great!!! At one shop I worked at, they were buyiing coated wire then switched to some bare wire. There was a big difference in weld quality. From that point on, any wire that was coated, we would take the coating off with sandpaper or scotch brite. It did work out, better for me anyway. As a rule of thumb, you should always wipre the wire cllean before using it. Acetone seems to work good, just let it dry before welding.
Reply:smithboy makes a recomendation.  Braid your excess mig wire, tightly of course, works goodIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRednecksmithboy makes a recomendation.  Braid your excess mig wire, tightly of course, works good
Reply:The copper is not plated on, its used as a die lube during the drawing process. It will eventually rust. Mr. Finchs book is an exellent source of info. Not to his credit, he has a lot of the same information in three different books. I have used uncoated 4130 .062 tig rod from United States Welding Corp. Cost about $35 a pound best I remember. Makes a beautiful weld.
Reply:Alan, is United States Welding Corp a direct seller or do you go through a distributor?.  Might give it a shot, I can use all the help I can getThanksDavid
Reply:David, I ordered direct. I think Mr. Finch gives a phone number in the reference part of his book.
Reply:[QUOTE=alan waters]The copper is not plated on, its used as a die lube during the drawing process. It will eventually rust. I see....so copper covered rod and wire is made using copper as a lubricant and that's where the copper comes from. So it's not used for corrosion protection but only incidental to the manufacturing process. Therefore, plain rod and wire are made with no lubricants. Interesting. I noticed on some of my filler rod (copper-looking) that there is a flat portion that has the ID for the rod stamped on it. This is wider in diameter than the rest of the rod. I wonder how they got the rod through the dies and yet still were able to deposit such an even coating of copper on the rod? I also looked at a roll of new Lincoln MIG wire. They sure got an even coating of nice shiny copper on that .023 wire with those dies. Last edited by gnm109; 06-06-2006 at 10:22 AM.
Reply:I was looking at TIG wire at Aircraft Spruce : particularly interesting was that it performs well over oily, dirty , rusty surface".. Wonder how it does that?Description from A-S"R70S-2 AWS 5.18 CLASS ER 70S-2ER70S-2 is multiple de-oxidized Plain Carbon Steel that has additions of Zirconium, Titanium, and Aluminum in addition to the high levels of Manganese and Silicon common to plain Carbon Steels of this group. The ability of this wire to perform well over oily, dirty, or rusty surfaces is one of its key features. ER70S-2 has a quick freezing weld pool with a somewhat tight molten range, which makes it an ideal choice for welding tubing, piping, and out-of-positon applications. The deposits have high ductility, excellent impact values and tensile strength. ER70S-2 is often used on AISI 4130 tubing where lower tensile strengths are acceptable or where reinforcing gussets are used in the design.Tensile strength: 83,000 psi (specs call for 70,0000 minimum). Elongation is 25%. This wire is often used with TIG and Plasma for critical applications."
Reply:Since Alan mentioned United States Welding Corp., I want to add that they are the premier source for the highest quality, aerospace grade, filler wire.  They handle any exotic alloy you may need.  They have a proprietary process for drawing and cleaning wire which ensures the very best surface finish and cleanliness.  You can send them your spooled wire to be cleaned and/or drawn to a smaller diameter.  If you need the very best, check them out.http://www.usweldingcorp.com/Not to be confused with the western state welding gas supplier, United States Welding, Inc.http://www.uswelding.com/
Reply:gnm109. As the wire exits the drawing die it is cut to the correct lenght and the ID is simultaneously stamped on the part.The copper is in powder form and adds life to the die. Manufacture of uncoated wire is hard on die life thus the higher cost.Last edited by alan waters; 06-08-2006 at 12:20 AM.
Reply:Cobra06 The [weld over dirt, rust,] sounds like a statement from a stupid sales person intended for a more stupid welder.