Lifting a cylinder by the protective valve cap...

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I saw this done a few days ago at work. I never said anything, but I kinda thought I should have. What are the chances of those cap threads failing under the load of a full argon 220/244 CF cylinder? I've seen some pretty sketchy threads on this protective caps before, all rusty and what not. Has anybody ever seen this? Ever seen or heard of any bad consequences? Close calls?
Reply:Hello Shaf_911, that is definitely NOT the way to lift any cylinder. That being said, do folks do it? They certainly do, as you saw with your own two eyes. The threads that are located on the tops of many bottles are part of a separate part that is peened into place onto the neck of the actual drawn cylinder. It can come loose and could possibly take the valve off with it and allow for a really exciting and dangerous result. I would definitely not make that a practice of mine and I can guarantee you that it is not an accepted practice by any of the safety organizations that have anything to say about things out in industry. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:That's one quick way to get run off if the safety department sees it!Back in the old days I've been guilty of placing one eye of a chocker over the cap, throw a half hitch in the lower 3rd of the bottle, and the other eye of the chocker in the hook of the crane. It will pick upside down that way. I can't remember ever picking a bottle by the cap tho.Last edited by CEP; 05-08-2011 at 07:55 PM.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I can't tell you how many caps I've been able to simply lift off the bottle by hand. There's lots of bad threads out there as well as the other problems listed above.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Some people just scare me...
Reply:Why wouldn't they design a bottle with better threads or perhaps a bottle with no cap just a protective cover like the new "Air Liquide" Bottles so you can lift them with the crane?
Reply:Yeah, you can jam a wrong threaded cap onto a bottle.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Myth busters had a cool one where they sheard a valve of shot through one block wall and broke the one behind it. Ive seen worse than picking by cap seen guys with tanks rolling in pick up with no caps.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Definetly not a good practice. I rememeber when I first started in the trade (too long ago) it was my job to take the bottles to the lws. All they had was a high loading dock so the bottles had to be hand bombed up 12" or so. I was grabbing the small bottles by the cap and using that to pick it up an place it on the dock. One of the shippers came over and went up oneside of me and down the other. "You stupid a$$hole, do you realize where that caps going to go when it pulls off, 1/2 way thru your gd teeth" . Sorta obnoxious way to get the point across but it's something I've never forgot and have passed on to newbies, in a bit better way :-).....Mike
Reply:Like mrmikey said, lifting by the cap is a good way go get to know your dentist better... And possibly your doctor about that nasty ankle or foot injury.Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by farmshopMyth busters had a cool one where they sheard a valve of shot through one block wall and broke the one behind it. Ive seen worse than picking by cap seen guys with tanks rolling in pick up with no caps.
Reply:Originally Posted by Liquid_PyroWhy wouldn't they design a bottle with better threads or perhaps a bottle with no cap just a protective cover like the new "Air Liquide" Bottles so you can lift them with the crane?
Reply:Lifting a cylinder by the cap was standard practice in the UK many years ago.  I worked in a shop that was full of Brits and they quickly made a set of tongs up that fit into the two slots in the sides of the cap.   Instead of the proper bottle cage lifted by the crane they used the tongs.Having said this I DO NOT recommend this method.
Reply:I busted myself in the jaw one time many years ago offloading an oxygen bottle from the truck to the lws dock. luckily i didn't take out any teeth, but did see stars for a short while!  There are at least two different thread pitches used on bottles, and some people will screw the wrong ones on a half thread or so, so by a glance they appear to be secureIn the field: '06 Ram 3500/Miller PP350    '14 F-350/Lincoln Classic 300DIn the shop: MM252, Hypertherm PM-85, White face MM200
Reply:A few years ago i was trying to roll a large argon bottle out of the gas cage but couldnt due to other bottles being in the way, so what did i do, lift it by the cap which was only screwed on half a turn. The result was a cap in the mouth and the bottle landing on me and breaking a rib. needless to say bottle handling procedures were reviewed after that.
Reply:BIG OSHA foul if you lift by the cap.It's a hideously stupid thing to do.
Reply:I cant say that Ive "lifted" them by the cap, but on a regular basis I tilt a bottle and pick from the bottom and throw em onto my shoulder, using the cap to steady and balance it... Mostly Nitro tanks, occasional Acetylene, but never Oxygen tanks....The threads on most bottles are chewed up, or too damn rusty to really thread the cap on it...Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:"lifting" to mean hoisting with a crane? is it a manufactured lifting point? hell no. If you saw this at work, you really should stay well away from those clowns. It may never happen, but if it does, it will happen faster than you can react.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:I have a 7" high cart where the bottles go and there is no way my back will put up with lifting those bottles (BIG ones) into place so I use the overhead hoist all the time.With a self tightening sling around the body....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:On the How It's Made episode showing high pressure cylinders, they show the cylinders, cap on, hanging by the cap, going through painting"Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Originally Posted by razerOn the How It's Made episode showing high pressure cylinders, they show the cylinders, cap on, hanging by the cap, going through painting
Reply:they should be on a cart, designed and built for lifting. Our torch carts have a screw down type bar (x2) to hold the cylinders securely. There is a picking eye that extends above the whole deal. They are easy and cheap to make.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:Originally Posted by razerOn the How It's Made episode showing high pressure cylinders, they show the cylinders, cap on, hanging by the cap, going through painting
Reply:Originally Posted by RaptorDunerBig difference between brand new empty cylinders and ones full of oxygen, acetylene, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manYep, the full ones have 2800 pounds of oxygen in them. That's ALOT more stress on the cap!2800 PSI...I can lift a full one but....If it was 2800 lbs then I would be on TV on some sort of strongman deal..Nope ..'Aint happening.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Well, I'm glad I cam across this thread. I do not consider myself a stupid individual by any means. I just picked up another 127cu/ft bottle of argon the other day. I tip it, hold balance by having one hand on the cap, then one hand under the bottle to lift it onto my shoulder. Then I tied it in the back of my truck using the holes IN THE CAP and nothing else. I now know I could have killed somebody. In my defense. I would think that they would make something that is so critical to safety, MUCH stronger than that. I guess that is what I get for assuming. FAIL on my part.Here is the Mythbusters video of them putting a cylinder through almost two cinder block walls. Last edited by DiabolicZ; 05-14-2011 at 11:42 AM.Lincoln Precisoin Tig 1851980's Miller plasma cutter.Used to own...Hobart Tig Mate.
Reply:Originally Posted by DiabolicZ I would think that they would make something that is so critical to safety, MUCH stronger than that. ]
Reply:Sorry. I thought the dancin dude and laughing smilies made it obvious that I was being sarcastic.Reminds me of a girl I dated that worked in a grocery store. She seen the "safe lifting technique's" poster. That night she asked me why she would ever want to lift a safe!!!She was alot of fun!!!"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:While we are on caps.  This smart person had a cap that was stuck and it just would not turn off.  I stick my big screwdriver into one of those slots to get extra leverage hoping to turn the cap.  I did it but also turned the hand valve inside the cap.  It was kinda embarrassing trying to get the cap the rest of the way off to the scream of oxygen being released.  No harm done except to my ego from being the entertainment for the rest of the shop until I finally was able to turn the valve closed.
Reply:^^^^  One word; strapwrench."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Originally Posted by razer^^^^  One word; strapwrench.