Welding Copper

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I had a customer drop of an interesting project. It is made out of sheet cooper, and needs several repairs. Any suggestions on which filler metal I should use? I know it could be repaired with silver soldier, but I would much prefer to Tig weld it.. It is an old Shine Still and needs to be repaired, and look functional so it can go into a museam. Any and all advices is greatly appreciated. Thanks in adavceCarl
Reply:We weld alot of copper for the power generation industry. I am not sure if the rod we use is an alloy, I don't think it is, but I know It is "deoxidized copper". I am pretty sure it is pure copper though.Yup
Reply:Hi.    I would think that if this copper still is going into a museum, It really needs to be "left as is" or repaired in the same manner as it's original construction. Being in a museum with a tig welded repair just doesn't ring true to me.  Best regards  Gordon.
Reply:Good point, old hand made still with shiny stack 'o' dimes TIG weld going across it! Wouldn't make sense.Yup
Reply:For something like this you can use copper wire (like the ground wire out of BX cable) as there is no plastic coating on it. Most shops have some kicking around and it welds fine on copper.
Reply:Originally Posted by gordon stephensonHi.    I would think that if this copper still is going into a museum, It really needs to be "left as is" or repaired in the same manner as it's original construction. Being in a museum with a tig welded repair just doesn't ring true to me.  Best regards  Gordon.
Reply:Braze it or solder it as it would have been done originally.Unless there other intentions then tig weld with bare copper wire just clean the wire with scotch brite or fine sand paper first and also the still joint to be welded. A wire wheel on a grinder would work good to get off old solder or braze. Don't forget to pre heat the joint with a torch first. A extra person with the torch will make welding much easier, keep that joint hot.Hope this helps.Brett B & B Fabrication and Welding Inc.Spalding, MI.
Reply:In my experience with shine mills, depending on the age,  some of the early ones were lead soldered, later ones brazed, and others were riveted.  Anything might be used to patch them: Pine tar, blackjack etc.   When one moonshines,  one isn't concerned about repeat customers, at least in the early days, so using foodgrade equipment was on the bottom of the list.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I am with the others; braze or solder would be my choice. If you tig it, you can buy bare wire copper wire, and just give it a swipe with sandpaper before you go after it. I tend to lean toward 16 or 14 guage wire. You can"Butter" your tig weld once done, to make it look smooth and to remove the dimes look.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Just two comments:1) Copper is very "melty" (that is a technical term).  Especially for sheet, it can run away much faster than even aluminum.2) Copper takes a LOT of heat to weld, because it is a great heat sink and conducts the heat away very quickly.  Even if you've got plenty of power to weld on the copper, the large amount of heat needed can melt lead soldered joints that are far away from where you're working. . .
Reply:The repairs won't be visible.. The bottom of it was cut up by the feds years ago. The main seams will still be solider. The welds that need to be put on it, need to be unseen. I understand your points, and agree completely the repairs I am talking about need to be completely unseen. Thats why I was looking for a copper filler that would flow, and then could be buffed out and disappear.. It needs to look unmolested when i'm finished.. I don't want a stacked dime seam on it!!! I realize I should have clarified this, but hindsight's always 20/20.. Still any and all advice or recommendations are greatly appreciated. It not only needs to look good, but it needs to work, as they may do some demo's with it, this is a Groovy museum there putting it in.. It really is a cool old still, If and when I get a chance, and some freaking daylight I will take a pic or two..
Reply:Are you trying to fill the axe marks?  Then I would say go ahead and use the filler.  Hard copper wire should match fine.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldAre you trying to fill the axe marks?...
Reply:Plain solid electrical copper wire should work fine to fill your "axe hole", so long as its far enough away from any soldered joints.  Maybe attach a damp rag in between the welding and soldered joints, to be sure its safe.Copper-phos brazing rod is an ok color match if its buffed to a shine, but oxidizes slightly differently than pure copper.  The upside though, is that it melts nicely below copper, and is much safer.  With TIG, you will get a perfect color match, and the seam will be gone, butwith TIG, the opening can very easily get away from you.  I don't know if this will work, but maybe back the weld with steel (just like a steel weld can be backed with copper).  Never tried it, but it sounds good.So lets see some Still goatse pictures already.
Reply:Yes, please post some pics if you can.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldsupplyIt not only needs to look good, but it needs to work, as they may do some demo's with it, this is a Groovy museum there putting it in..
Reply:If I was you I would tell "The GROOVY Musuem" not to repair this STILL as it is HISTORY.I would recomend to them to have you repoduce the same still with modern means for the demos. Then they have what the still looked like before and the original of what our government did when one was found. That is preserving HISTORY like a Musuem is FORBrett B & B Fabrication and Welding Inc.Spalding, MI.
Reply:I have seen several "repaired" stills, and nothing is like seeing an old one work.  There are plenty of old stills out there laying in the woods.  I could lay my hands on at least 3 pretty quickly with permission of the land owners of course.Really, this isn't about preserving history, just preserving the stomach. Quite a few guys around that can still one off one for a museum though, assuming there is no legal recourse to the makers.  I was in a friends shop last year and I saw something that looked like a copper coil and some other "makings" for a still.  Knowing him,  it was a little out of charachter, but not too far out of charachter.  I asked him what on earth was he going to do with it.  He said he was only going to make the parts for the customer and let him join them up.  He also added that they were for one of the county commissioners.Here in GA you can make up to 5 gallons of whiskey for "personal consumption"But the old lightnin' is more  $$$ than the local liquor store.  I don't imbibe either, but just found all this interesting. Though I am not a teetotaler by definition.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by UP BRETTIf I was you I would tell "The GROOVY Musuem" not to repair this STILL as it is HISTORY.I would recomend to them to have you repoduce the same still with modern means for the demos. Then they have what the still looked like before and the original of what our government did when one was found. That is preserving HISTORY like a Musuem is FOR
Reply:I'm beginning to think this 'museum' is in weldsupply's garage.  How 'bout you?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Dang them boys from Infernal Revenue Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55I'm beginning to think this 'museum' is in weldsupply's garage.  How 'bout you?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammDang them boys from Infernal Revenue
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepDoubt it... It's probably down by the creek!
Reply:Revenuers used to follow the streams and creeks to find things to sink their axes into.  All the ones I have found except one were near a stream.  One was actually stradling a small stream.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT