Please Critique My Welds(4th day Welding)

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I've been tig welding for 4 days now and would like people to give me pointers and a general critique of my welds. This is on a lincoln 275 I think. I really want to try a miller.Anyway, some of these are stainless and some aren't. I'm not fast enough on stainless as the welds are rather dark and too big for the thickness of the material(16 gauge).How are you guys moving the torch? Is there a pattern that you move the torch in to smoothly move the puddle along and make a nice weld?MILD 12 gauge:Stainless 16 gauge:
Reply:Your technique looks pretty good to me.  I'd say you are doing pretty dern well for the 4th day.  It's a bit hard to tell from a flat picture if you have concave or convex welds...were you using filler on these?  The reason I ask is that some angles look like you aren't using filler, other angles look like you are...it's just you mention the welds being too big...too thick or too wide?You might be overheating the stainless a bit...I am not the best person to comment on that, though.  I'll leave that for others.  But, I'd say you got a good hand and will do very well with a bit more practice and experience.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:very good!the trick is to never stop the torch from a smmmmoooootttthhhh movement..no stops and starts while the arc is going.. dips every 1/8 inch...practice makes perfect..clean is everything ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I was using filler on these welds. I'm going to go to class tonight and practice some more. I'm going to try aluminum sometime this week after I've gotten decent with stainless.Also, is the  TA 300TSW overkill for a first welder? I'm going to be doing lot of aluminum, but nothing thicker then 0.25". I can't seem to find pricing on the 300, but the TA 185tsw is everywhere. If that would handle my aluminum, I'll but it.Regards,JustinLast edited by JustinOlson; 07-31-2006 at 06:56 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by JustinOlsonI was using filler on these welds. I'm going to go to class tonight and practice some more. I'm going to try aluminum sometime this week after I've gotten decent with stainless.Also, is the  TA 300TSW overkill for a first welder? I'm going to be doing lot of aluminum, but nothing thicker then 0.25"Regards,Justin
Reply:On the above welds I moved the torch in a kind of circular motion, but I've heard its bad to move the torch laterally as it will make the HAZ larger. Am I better off just moving the torch parallel to the weld?Regards,Justin
Reply:Start to learn how to weld stringers first, that is, don't oscillate the torch, just move it back and forth in a straight progression.  Start the puddle, move forward, then back and dip your filler, then forward to progress the puddle, then back to dip your filler.Two things I noticed, you seem to be moving slow at too low a power.  Not surprising considering your only 4 days into this.  Second, make sure when you pull back your wire after dipping, you keep the tip of the wire in the gas flow from the cup.  That way, the wire won't oxidize and aid in that cold shut look you're getting.  Straight argon for the stainless, flow at about 20scfh.Looks good for starters, from here on out it's like getting to Broadway......practice, practice, practice.I r 2 a perfessional
Reply:Kbnit, you're probably right about the heat and speed...if he adds more amps and speeds up, he will probably both reduce the HAZ and reduce the overheating problem a lot.  Good call there.I am definately with zap on the "overkill comment" also...if you can afford a ta300 tsw, or a comparable welder and you intend to be a weldor...there ain't no such thing as overkill.  Aluminum can make big welders look weak...It's like a whole OTHER metal or something.Last edited by smithboy; 07-31-2006 at 07:34 PM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Justin,Welds look good. You can try resting the cup on the work while moving the torch along the joint. Any trick that can take the shake out of the cup while welding, some welders "walk the cup", others slide it and some free hand. Different techniques are used for different joints and materials. As far as aluminum is concerned. Get on it, get it hot, and get off it.  Aluminum melts at @ 1200 F. Aluminum oxide melts at 3700F. So it is extremely important to clean it before welding.Weldtek
Reply:Justin, nice work, really don't see any major issues, very uniform.kbnit has some good advice.  I would just like to comment regarding the back-stepping technique for adding filler wire.  This is a sound technique and is beneficial in getting the wire into the puddle and in producing the stack of dimes appearance.  However, for the benefit of those new to TIG, it is also OK and common to TIG weld with no torch oscillation.  If it is easier for you to move in a straight line at a constant speed, this is OK.  In machine welding, pausing the forward motion is sometimes syncropulsed with current and wire feed to squeak out more penetration on thicker materials, otherwise a continuous forward travel along the joint with continuous wire feed is used.Regarding your circular torch motion, oscillation of the torch from side to side, in a circle, or whatever pattern, can be used to produce a larger weld to fill a groove or produce a certain size fillet.  The weld only needs to be big enough to adequately fuse the components and fill the groove.  Over-sized welds may be detrimental in some cases, as you mentioned it is undesirable to produce an overly wide heat affected zone (HAZ).  The large weld groove or fillet can also be produced by making a number of sequential overlapping straight-line welds (stringer beads).  In some applications and material the stringer bead technique is preferred and required for metallurgical effects such as limiting the HAZ and the tempering effect subsequent beads have on previous beads.In addition to the back-step to facilitate adding wire, a slight tilt of torch off of 90 degrees, will help push the puddle a bit ahead of the tungsten and allow better access to dip the filler into the puddle without hitting the tungsten.
Reply:Thanks for all of the advice. I got some very nice welds last night. By using smaller filler wire I wasn't having the trouble of getting the filler rod stuck to the   pieces I was trying to weld. I also added more filler and moved faster on higher amperage. This produced a very pretty shinier weld that wasn't concave like the above welds. The only trouble I'm having now is producing these welds for longer then a couple inches. It seems I'm running out of rod, or getting cramped up. I was trying to hold the torch differently, but was struggling to hold it steady in different positions. BTW, all of the above welds are with me holding the torch with my left hand and filling with my right. I'm naturally right handed but I seem to be amidextrous while welding. I practiced a lot with my right hand last night and am started to get comfortable holding the torch steadly and can now weld about equally with both.I found that I can rest the cup on the work piece and it helps produce nicer welds, but I'm having trouble with the piece moving around on me when doing this. I clamped the piece to the table and that helped a tone. On another Note, I have no idea how to get an aluminum puddle started. OMG, I tried cleaning the crap out of it, but I just couldn't get a puddle started. What settings and sized tungsten would you recommend for 12 gauge aluminum plate?Regards,JustinLast edited by JustinOlson; 08-01-2006 at 01:43 PM.
Reply:The only way to learn how to make the welds longer than a few inches at a time is practice.  Remember, TIG welding is primarily muscle-memory.  It requires your eyes, both hands, and foot to work together doing different things independently.   Practice holding your rod like you would hold a pencil, then pushing it forward with your thumb.  Keep doing it until you're smooth.  It's one of the hardest things about TIG, but the skill that will aid in your welding the most.  Holding out a long length of wire, melting it in, bakcing off the currnt to pull more wire through, etc. costs time and effort, and if you're worrying about the wire, you're not watching the puddle.  As for holding the torch, ask 10 welders and you'll get 15 different anwers.  Again, try different methods until you find one that works for you.  Just a thought, though, since you're only a few days into welding, you've probably got a death grip on that torch, and that's what's causing the cramping.  Hold the torch like you're holding a raw eggOn Aluminum, because of it's high thermal conductivity, the heat applied by the torch is rapidly spread to the surrounding material.  The way to start the puddle is to put the amps to the part.  Remember, though, once you have the puddle started, weld like the dickens, because as the material heats, the puddle will want to start to spread.  So you have to move.  And quick.I r 2 a perfessional
Reply:Justin,Aluminum is harder to weld than steel. Most industrial torches for aluminum are water cooled. An air cooled torch will work on thinner materials; if your machine will give you enough amperage. Minimum 3/32 tungsten, rounded on end, but the ball should not be larger than the tungsten diameter. Aluminum doesn't change color, but it gets shiny when it melts - that's your puddle. Then,  practice til your sick of it.Weldtek
Reply:Would the Thermal Arc 185 TSW be good enough for 1/4" aluminum. I've currently designed and had machined an intake flange and have purchased the rest of the intake manifold components. I dont plan on welding anything thicker then this, and am wondering if a 185TSW will be able to get the job done? Is there an option to add a water cooled torch to it?Heres a picture of my intake manifold project mocked up:Regards,Justin
Reply:I'd say it's just beyond the limits of the TA185 in AC.  You can add watercooled to anything with an external radiator or just by running water from a tap through the torch into a bucket or something.  For 1/4 inch you will probably need closer to 250 amps and definately a watercooled torch or a 300 amp air cooled torch and some thick gloves.  You could preheat and maybe do it, but you could only do a bit at a time and it would not yield the best results for an intake...all that excess heat is likely to cause warping problems.  I have a 250 dialarc that will just bearly do 1/4 in ac with me holding my mouth just right.There might or might not be DC options with helium...I don't know.     ZAP!!!  We need you over here!!!Ideally, you would want more like 400 amps, so you can puddle fast, drop back on the amps and move quickly without hitting any kind of duty cycle problems...but, like always, we all make do with what we have at our disposal.You might want to refer this question directly to Zapster.  He's been through this, I am sure.BTW, that's good looking work you've done there.Last edited by smithboy; 08-02-2006 at 09:58 AM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:For DC I suggest 75% Helium 25% Argon.  Helps carry more heat at lower amperage.I r 2 a perfessional
Reply:DC..to do that?no way..you will have melted drips all over the floor..and it will look like crap to boot..#1..you could do it with what you have..maybe a little pre heat with some O/A equipment..#2..dont even TRY to weld it together on a bench like that...i can gurantee you that it wont fit on the head anymore..#3..get a dummy head and tourque the parts in place before you start..#4..most important.. tack weld all the runners to the manifold first..small tacs 4 corners..#5 if you hear one break stop and fix it NOW!!..#6..get ready..when its all tourqued and tacked.. THERE IS NO TURNING BACK once you start finish welding you had better make sure you have enough gas..filler..tungestion ready to go..you cant finish half now and the other half next week..it dont work that way..#7..start in the middle..then do the ends and then back to the middle..you dont want all your heat at one place..#8..when its done let it cool completely..then take it off the head...#9..run a straight edge over the bottom..if its twisted or bent have it fly cut to get it straight again..#10..GOOD LUCK!!!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:another thing that just crossed my mind..for a novice to do dc aluminum.. it takes lots of practice and skill..and i know your not at that level yet...and just the idea that you dont even have a week of experience leads me to believe your in for the "ride" of your life..if its not working out check back with us and we'll see what's going (or not) on..but i do admire your ambition... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by JustinThe only trouble I'm having now is producing these welds for longer then a couple inches. It seems I'm running out of rod, or getting cramped up. I was trying to hold the torch differently, but was struggling to hold it steady in different positions. BTW, all of the above welds are with me holding the torch with my left hand and filling with my right. I'm naturally right handed but I seem to be amidextrous while welding. I practiced a lot with my right hand last night and am started to get comfortable holding the torch steadly and can now weld about equally with both.On another Note, I have no idea how to get an aluminum puddle started. OMG, I tried cleaning the crap out of it, but I just couldn't get a puddle started. What settings and sized tungsten would you recommend for 12 gauge aluminum plate?Regards,Justin
Reply:i ll wait for the pics ---and remember practice -ect.... and clean  clean clean  good luck  but i would find a dummy head to torque to then weld
Reply:I'm not going to ruin an intake manifold until I'm really comfortable with lap joints and such like above. I'm going to try and work on aluminum tonight in class. I'll take some pics and post tomorrow.Regards,Justin
Reply:I remember someone stating never go over a weld ... that would be me... never go over a weld..get it right the first time......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Never go over a weld while tiggin, right???Miller blue star 2eLincoln 175
Reply:Your welding shows great promise!I would only add that the last couple of pictures appear that you could have done a little more pre-welding cleaning.As for your intake .... Fantastic looking work ...  I hope you can be patient, until you can do the welding as well as you have done the machining.Washman
Reply:Intake looks great.  What's it going on?DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. toolsThe intake is going on my audi 5 cylinder turbo motor(The header was welded by Lovefab.com):I laid down some sweet stainless welds last night and started on aluminum. I didn't start it until towards the end of my time in the shop and only had 2% thoriated tungsten, so it was a pain to weld with that. I'm going to try pure tungsten tonight, and hopefully I can have something worth showing you guys tomorrow.Regards,Justin
Reply:stay with the red end 2%thats all i ever use..pure is more of a pain than its worth.. but thats just me......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:How do I ball up 2%?Also, should I be using the pulse feature on any of these welds? I haven't tried it yet, but have seen people produce very nice welds with it.Regards,JustinLast edited by JustinOlson; 08-03-2006 at 02:40 PM.
Reply:there is a thread here in the mig ,tig forum about 1/4 way down the page2% is the title..check it out.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I have a question for the" Prop Doc  " OR anyone who HAS actual  experience welding on a  NOSE CONE , on a johnnyrude  NITRO  lower unit , is it good alloy in the lower unit , and thick enough to cause no problems? THANKS-  PS:   this question  has NOTHING TO DO   with "critiquing  my welds " , didn't know where else to ask this SPECIALIZED     QUESTIONLast edited by Roy Hodges; 08-03-2006 at 03:32 PM.[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Latest and Greatest Stainless:Mild:
Reply:nice and smooth...now you have to weld something TOGETHER  little faster at the end with less footpedal stops the burn-thru......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:justin..i sent you a private messagewoo hoo  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Nice welds, no filler maybe? Stainless heats up fast, so the faster{and smoother} the better. 2% is geat for mild and stainless, a nice sharp point is the greatest. Green tip is best suitable for alum., you ball the green for it, not the red for steel. You want it sharp for a nice smooth arc. Ballin up can cause to much heat at the surface of the work, hence the reason to ball up for aluminum, not for steel.
Reply:By the way the 3rd pic from top of the back of the work, notice the expansion of the red where it penitrated through the material, that was the slowest of movement, the heat spread out. Once you get a smooth steady arc, move it. Try a t joint weld to get a better understanding of it. Use 1/8", 10 or 12 gauge and downsize from there. the trick is to watch the arc, look for the blue haze. The blue means its hot and need no more heat and/or filler, so get the puddle movein. Timing and movement.
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy HodgesI have a question for the" Prop Doc  " OR anyone who HAS actual  experience welding on a  NOSE CONE , on a johnnyrude  NITRO  lower unit , is it good alloy in the lower unit , and thick enough to cause no problems? THANKS-  PS:   this question  has NOTHING TO DO   with "critiquing  my welds " , didn't know where else to ask this SPECIALIZED     QUESTION
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodgesthis got immediately burried , so I have to ask  again - ROY
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodgesthis got immediately burried , so I have to ask  again - ROY
Reply:post in  gen welding questions..at the top of the page about 1/3 rd down to the left you'll see a "new thread" button..press and type away......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:So a funny thing happen last night when I was at my welding class. I was talking to my instrutor about my welds. He thinks I'm doing really well on stainless now and said he can get me a job doing stainless TIG welding at my current level of proficiency. This is crazy. I've been welding for 9 class days at this point with no other welding experience in my life and he tells me he can get me a job starting between $14-18 /hour.Just thought it was amusing.Regards,Justin
Reply:
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsteranother thing that just crossed my mind..for a novice to do dc aluminum.. it takes lots of practice and skill..and i know your not at that level yet...and just the idea that you dont even have a week of experience leads me to believe your in for the "ride" of your life..if its not working out check back with us and we'll see what's going (or not) on..but i do admire your ambition... ...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by JustinOlsonSo a funny thing happen last night when I was at my welding class. I was talking to my instrutor about my welds. He thinks I'm doing really well on stainless now and said he can get me a job doing stainless TIG welding at my current level of proficiency. This is crazy. I've been welding for 9 class days at this point with no other welding experience in my life and he tells me he can get me a job starting between $14-18 /hour.Just thought it was amusing.Regards,Justin
Reply:tigtake your tig torch off its wip and start practicing walking the cup on a piece of wood, it will grip a little. when u think your pretty good, try it on a mirror. once u can walk the cup on a mirror, start walking it around a beer bottle or a round glass bottle of some sort and not on the lable. your tungston should be positiond as it would to really weld. make every step count. MOST IMPORTANT ! RELAX ! if u dont relax your wrists and hands you will get carple tunnel some where down the tig welding line.   this alows u to see how you are walking the cup, and muscle memory of how it feels to walk it correctly.   it is much easier to learn to feed the rod after you have got the walking the cup part down.   hope this helps.oh yeah......no walking the cup with aluminum, just free hand it.
Reply:Butt welds:Front SideFront SideBack Side PenetrationBack Side Penetration
Reply:I agree with Motofab! Back-up and take a look at what your doin. There's a big difference between a "rod burner" and a welder.  i.e. I can train my dog to go to the curb to fetch the paper. I have to teach him how to hunt for the paper everywhere it might be.A rod burner can run a bead on a project plate the way he was shown. A welder understands what equipment is needed to weld different materials, thickness, shape, position with quality and strength.Be a welder.Weldtek
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldtekI agree with Motofab! Back-up and take a look at what your doin. There's a big difference between a "rod burner" and a welder.
Reply:Oh, I'm with you Jim. I just meant that he needs to develop the basics and "learn" how welding works; not just copy a demo or project. He is doing great, but some ill given advice or comments could lead him astray.I'm a d*** good welder. On a good day, I can weld with a mirror. I can start a TIG weld at the 6:00 position on a 3" Sch.10 s/s pipe and weld non stop to the tie in (walking the cup). And I consider myself average. My friends in VA, can do x-ray quality TIG welds in a mirror faster and better than I can do it looking at it.Justin, I wish you lots of luck; your posts are great. Keep it up.Weldtek
Reply:Thanks for the comments and critism. At this point this is just a hobby for me. I know I have very little experience, but am trying to change that. I'm actually considering taking a job part time welding up here in portland to get experience instead of paying to weld at the community college. I'm not sure if I want to weld to pay my way through college. Lessons learn for this week are that I can have a very nice looking but weld, with very little penetration. To hit good penetration and a nice weld on the top is taking me time to nail. My next lesson is that getting full penetration on 1.5" schedule 40 stainless in 1 pass is hard hard hard. I'll keep practicing tho. I believe with just the right gap and bevel I will be able to get nice penetration with good color on top.Going from flat plates of stainless to tubing is definitely hard. I really need to get better at walking the cup. Thats what I'm going to focus on tonight.Regards,JustinLast edited by JustinOlson; 08-31-2006 at 05:12 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by elvergonSo you can do aluminum with DC? straight argon? I´ve tried that a few times (of course not cleaning the aluminum which you claim its all)Which polarity you use? I might try it tomorrow jsut for the knowledge Ty =)