Anybody ever seen a welder driven by a truck's PTO?

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Just daydreaming.  Thinking about the generator side of my SAM-400, the low output of the non-stock 3.152 that's running it, and the PTO drive already on the side of the 6-speed on the truck.It would take a lot of math to get it right.  Probably not worth it, but like I said, just daydreaming before I call it a night....I wonder what the fuel consumption would be like on a 7.3?I wonder how accurate of an RPM controller you can put on that 7.3?I wonder how much power that PTO drive is capable of transmitting?  It would need to handle at least 50 or 60 hp, right?  Isn't that what the 4.236 put out?I wonder....
Reply:the powerstroke 7.3 has a factory module available that regulates rpm and is supposed to be within 5 rpm. pto's can generally easily handle 100 hp. i saw a pto welder on craigslist recently for $1000.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:I was toying with something similar ... I have an olde  F250 4x4 with the 6.9 ... If I disconnect the rear drive line I could run it as a front wheel drive on the road and slip it into 2 wheel drive at the transfer case to just drive the rear shaft as a pto when stationary ... A diesel can sit at idle almost forever ...I have been there, done that ... I have taken the scars and left the smiles to prove it ...  U.S. Marine extraordinaire ...Wars fought, tigers tamed, revolutions started, bars emptied, alligators castrated ...
Reply:I used one once, was a former WWII aircraft generator, 28vdc, 400amps, driven by a tractor PTO, welded nice IIRC."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Norite, yes, I'm familiar with tractor PTO-driven equipment - used to use it every day for 20 years.  What I'm wondering about is the truck drives.  If Turk is correct, the truck drives also will handle enough power.  Tractor drives are set for either 540 or 1000 RPM at an engine RPM slightly below high idle - now for some research on what unit's on my truck now, and what it's gearing ratio is, and whether the truck's transmission transmits engine RPM to the PTO unit or whether it gears it down before the unit.  Magus, your idea might be do-able, but I don't think it'd work on my 2WD!
Reply:Definately possible and could be a fun project.Check the Muncie http://www.munciepower.com/main/quick-reference/ and Chelsea http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PA...0032a71dacRCRD sites for available PTOs and associated ratios for your transmission.And as turk points out, you'll need the 7.3 engine speed controls for proper operating speed for welding/generating.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:It seems to me the fuel consumption would sure cut into your profit. That big an engine driving a welder would surely use a lot more than a regular diesel welder.                                   JMHO,                                                 MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I'll be working on the BSFC figures next - right now I'm trying to figure out driveline details.  Thinking about it is free, right?  So far I've ID'ed the Chelsea PTO unit on it now, and I've found that it's gearing is driving at 96% of engine speed, which is too high if I wanted to direct-drive it.  Luckily I don't and can't.  I was hoping to have the engine running at around 1200-1400 RPM, which means I also need a torque curve chart that goes down that low for the 7.3 to be sure the SAM's draw won't be lugging it.  If it is, the engine RPM's will need to go up.The ZF S6-650 transmission in the truck has the PTO mounted on the driver's side.  From there, there's a straight shot back as far as I want to go before the rear axle.  I was thinking of mounting the SAM in an enclosed box at the front of the bed (no room between the framerails - the generator is about 24" dia.), and driving it by a banded belt from the PTO shaft below.  That would give me the chance to adjust the RPM's at the generator head.  I'd have to get pulley min diameters, belt size, and number of belts in the banded belt based on expected HP transmission.  Would also have to be sure the PTO will be turning the right direction!  I guess if it wasn't, I could just turn the generator 180 degrees and drive it from the rear.All of this would have to go on a new body - the dump body and all hydraulics except for the PTO drive would be sold.  So would the 3.152 and any leftovers from the SAM 400 case.  So I'd be making a body also, or buying a used flatbed and modifying it to suit.  It would be nice to have a torch compartment, workbench area, all boxes accessible from ground level anyway....My thinking on the fuel consumption is this - I'd still have the TB302 on the truck, which would get most of the use.  BUT, if I needed to arcair, or put out some serious amperage onsite, I wouldn't have the weight or footprint of the entire SAM-400 on the truck, nor would it be on a trailer behind that I had to drive back to the shop to get, and then deal with jockeying it around onsite.  The tradeoff would be that the weight of the SAM generator would always be on the truck, and it's no lightweight.I'm going back to research.  Trying to find the torque curve of the 4.236 the Lincoln's used as well - I want to know torque output at 1800 rpm and max torque, if it's at a lower RPM point.  I need this because this PTO unit is rated at 200 ft-lbs "intermittent torque."  Need to know whether it's up to the task as well.More thoughts?
Reply:A little more info.The NA Perkins 4.236 had a torque peak around 1400 RPM of 194 ft-lbs.  The 7.3L Powerstroke makes around 100 hp and 400 (!) ft-lbs at 1200 RPM.  So power shouldn't be an issue.No BSFC figures for the 7.3L are showing up on the net, and I've searched exhaustively.  I have found that it uses between 1/2 and 1/3 gph at idle, and one source said 1 gph at 1200 RPM, but those are all under no-load conditions.  Of course, it doesn't sound like the SAM would be a very heavy load, even at 1200 engine RPM.The idle control modules are available on ebay for around $150 to $175 including all bracketry and instructions.
Reply:I have seen a few pto drive holbart welders on jeeps from way back in the day.   I also have seen a older bobcat 250 running off a hydraulic motor running off a service truck's hydaulic system for the compressor, crane, hydraulic tools, etc.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:Update on this topic.  After spending a fair amount of time working on the SAM's welder portion, I've decided there are just too many wires, controls, etc. in there that are external to the generator to attempt a transplant like I was considering here.  I mean it's like spaghetti in there!  But since then, I bought (2) SA-200's from a member on this site.  It looks like I"m going to need to sacrifice some engine-related parts (radiator, carb are the expensive ones) from one of them to get the other running properly.  The parts machine is knocking, blowing oil and has awful compression on number 3 and 4, which means it won't be profitable to repair and resell.  I had planned to repair them both and resell them at a profit, but wasn't counting on so many hard parts being bad.  Long story short, I think I can build one of them and sell it with no problem, but then I'll have the parts machine which MAY still have a good welding generator on it....you see where I'm going with this.There's an awful lot less external spaghetti on the SA-200 compared to the SAM 400. All of this will have to wait until I've gotten the one good SA-200 together and sold, and then I'll run the one with the bad engine for long enough to find out if the welder portion works.  If the engine grenades at that point it won't matter anyway.Last edited by tbone550; 07-06-2011 at 10:03 PM.
Reply:There is a weldor in Lampasas, Texas that had an old Lincoln bullet shop machine under his truck that is run off a PTO. That machine was a lot like a SA 200 but was on an electric motor instead of an engine. The control panel is inside a door right above the hitch and the leads are on roll ups inside the bed behind the wheels. It's a really cool rig.
Reply:I may be wrong, but didn't the old bullets run @ 3600RPM?                                      MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw