Getting Started with Cheap Wire Welder

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Picked up a cheap wire welder (90 amp HF special) I have never wire welded, flux or otherwise, though I had done a bit of stick welding way back in high school. I am getting a lot of spatter, and I know that is to be expected with flux wire. However, I am not getting a good looking weld, as it seems more clumpy and not really anything even slightly resembling a bead. I am using the lower power, the .030 wire and the slowest wire speed. So far the only thing I have seen on spatter is to reduce the wire speed or power.  Should I be able to get a pool per-se with this or is it supposed to be a mess?How close should I actually be with the gas cup, and how much stick out should I have with the wire itself? Other than, "Junk this and get one with gas..." What suggestions do you have?
Reply:Sounds like you might wanna try a shorter stickout, just move the tip in closer to the work in increments and see if that helps.[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Pictures would help.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I had that welder and got good results for flux core. Watch your stick out, and try doing cursive "U" or "e" shapes. I used to have my stick out about 1/4" to 1/2" but no more than that.Also helps to wire brush your work piece some. Did you try high power?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I will shoot some pictures later. My stickout was both long and short, my hand was not very steady, and I was trying to do single line weld as opposed to stitch/zigzag. I am am also using the .030 wire that came with it (which seems to be another commonly suggested issue)I now have a hands free helmet so I will have my other hand to help steady my work. I will try the stitch/zigzag thing.I have not tried using 'high' (the other power setting. Just high and low, no dial )I have picked up a roll of (possibly Hobart) .035 wire and will try that as well. I will also try a little faster wire feed and see if that helps. I got some more scrap metal and will give it another shot.Anything I missed? Any other suggestion?-- Absinthe
Reply:if running FC wire the copper nozzle is not needed remove it so you can see got a FC cover /nozzle .. then you can see the stickout 1/4 '' max  from the little copper tip .. you dont say metal thickness.. 1/8 inch will be max on that welder   get some 1/8  and crank it up you may find the sweet spot  but it not like the bigger machinesidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Yep the wire that comes with it is junk. Just go to home depot and get some new wire and it will be a LOT better.For the shaky hands, someone told me to eat some bread prior to welding. Carbs in your system help make a steady hand.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Try better wire, faster wire speed (5 or 6) and both power levels.  I get a better bead when holding the torch in both hands and moving reletively slowly (speed depends on metal thickness).  I got acceptable penetration welding 1/8" x 3/8" angle to some 1/2" rod (extending the post on a bird feeder - maximum load less than 20lb so road-worthy welds are not needed).John
Reply:I am working mostly with thinner metals. 16 gauge is possibly the thickest, but mostly 22 ga and stuff of that ilk. I actually got a tack weld on some 26 gauge galvanized and was impressed. I think the hand shake thing will be cured by not having to hold the mask, and getting to standing position. I will try some other power levels. I am not sure what is being suggested with removing the tip. If I take the tip off then the springy thing seems to advance with the wire. That seems like a bad idea. Unless you are suggesting I remove the gas cup, but I thought that was kind of necessary to the process. I have the new wire, I just haven't loaded it yet. I will try a little faster feed as well.
Reply:Don't weld galvanized, unless you take off the galvanized coating. It's hazardous to your health for one and for two it won't give you a good weld.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I have seen the warnings on galvanized. I did weld it, I don't intend to weld it any more. It seemed to weld just fine, and luckily I am not dead from the experience. I only mentioned it because it was 26 gauge.
Reply:Originally Posted by AbsintheI am working mostly with thinner metals. 16 gauge is possibly the thickest, but mostly 22 ga and stuff of that ilk. I actually got a tack weld on some 26 gauge galvanized and was impressed.
Reply:I have successfully done more things that were impossible simply because I was unaware that those things were impossible.  So far I have also O/A welded 26 gauge galvanized with a #3 or #4 tip with out blowing a hole through it... Not pretty, but it held up nicely to my brick chisel and drilling hammer, and showed good penetration. I do have a piece of 1/8" around somewhere, and a whole bunch of scrap from 22 ga up to 18 ga and possibly a single piece of 16 ga. I just got a few sheets of 24 or 26 (don't remember which) gauge (not scrap) and once I form and roll those suckers I hope to either have a good enough handle on this to plug/rosette/buttonhole weld that sucker together. Lacking that, I should have my 00 and 0 tips for the O/A welder by then and will do that instead. Maybe I have been lucky, and that is ok too, because some day is is far better to be lucky than good. I do not plan on investing in another welder unless the deal is so phenomenal I can't pass it up. I am considering collecting a few used microwaves and trying to make one myself but that is a project for another day. So accepting that this is not the right tool for the job, I am not one to blame the equipment, so how do I compensate for that? Anyway, I will not have time to play with it tonight, but hopefully tomorrow will give me some chance to play again.
Reply:Fine you do not blame the tool but trying to screw in a flathead screw with a phillips screwdriver just does not work.  You still need the right tool for the job be it top of the line or Chicom cheapy...   Fluxcore at .030 is not the process for welding 26G sheet metal.   The only thing that may help is using a backing bar so you can run sufficient heat to get the metals to actually weld together without big ol holes.     Seems like another person protesting after asking for advice and not liking what they are hearing.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:.030 will work better than .035 on a 90amp welder.
Reply:First, I am not a Harbor Freight basher or even a cheap welder basher.  I am lucky enough to have 2 Harbor Freight stores in my area and do shop at both locations and actually like some of their products.That said, You have to be very careful when shopping welders at HF.  If your welder is the one I think it is then it is AC output which is bad in a Mig welder (see HF thread where people are converting them to DC themselves - make sure to read whole thing).  Nothing wrong with AC output in a stick welder as there are rods that burn okay on AC in stick.  Unfortunately, Mig or fluxcore wirefeed is a DC only process and all wires are designed for DC only.  Needless to say not going to work well with your AC output welder.In short, no matter what you do this welder may never work well and will always spatter like crazy since it is outputting AC current and you are trying to burn DC designed wire.  If you just bought this thing then I would return it for full refund as there are better alternatives out there in the cheap welder arena..  If you are intent on getting a cheap wirefeed look at the Northern Tool ones (appear to be Lincoln copies is many ways) or maybe even the TSC Jobsmart ones for like $120.  Regardless, verify that it is DC output or it will simply never work right.I almost exclusively run fluxcore in my little Lincoln SP-135P as I do all my welding outdoors.  Shielding gas does not work well in windy conditions and fluxcore works much better for me outside.  While fluxcore will not weld quite as thin as metal as Mig mode (i.e. using shielding gas) can it is NOT a drastic difference - probably do 24 gauge with Mig easily where 20 gauge would be easy thin limit with fluxcore.  Also, fluxcore does provide increased penetration when welding thicker metal than Mig mode will - sometimes helpful with marginal powered 115 volts units on thicker metals.  Again, I think the majority of your problem is the welder is AC output which is bad for this application.Again, if you do not like what I am saying then just look at the thread in the HF section.  If your wire feeder is AC output then it is a pig in a poke so to speak.Last edited by rankrank1; 07-18-2011 at 11:10 PM.
Reply:Yeah, I am sorry, I should have figured that I would come across that way. I think you misunderstand my intent, or my statements. I think the proper metaphor is more like driving a screw with a sledgehammer or cuttign a mortise with a screw driver rather than driving a slotted screw with a phillip's head. Of course, if it is a big enough screw driver, you can use the handle to beat the screw in I recognize that this is cheap and I have no unrealistic expectations that it is the same thing as a DC gas MIG with lots of amps and the correct sized wire for all the jobs at hand. I knew that when I bought it. In reality, the actual right tool for the job (with the particular metal is more likely a nice spot welder, though silver solder would likely be even better). Hell, FWIW, cold forming a nice hammered seam might just be even better. I bought this tool to learn with. I have thinner metals to play with and they are all in the range of 22,20,18 and 16 gauge, they are free because they are simply cutouts or cutoffs and thus they are small as well. I am not making a project from them, but merely trying to learn to run a bead and do the different standard joints. I just happen to be doing some sheet metal fabrication that is using 26 gauge and having a couple pieces of that left over, I gave it a try, because I was unaware that it is impossible. I simply stated that I was amazed that this thing was capable of actually accomplishing a small weld successfully on this material. Now, I find nothing wrong with what you are saying. I actually have no problem agreeing with you either. But although I know this is not the 'right tool for the job' and there are several others that would perfectly suit the bill, I have this one. And I am operating under the auspice of 'When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail'. I accept that as a flux core welder it will spatter a bit. I wish I got a chance to play last night because I was hoping to see if there was a difference with stitching or zigzag that would give me a better bead. 1/8 is probably the thickest I will ever work, simply because I am not setup to work anything thicker conveniently. And, ultimately once I have proper tips in, I will likely use the victor (O/A) for any welding that is actually important. I will also give the idea of a backer bar a try too. All I was really asking, is for technique. Again, knowing it is not optimal, there are still techniques. For instance, if for some reason your wire feed was too fast and your power too high you could still weld a bead by making bigger (wider) zigzags. At least that was the example the welder at work gave me I read the DC mod, and I might give that a try at some point. This is an AC unit as far as I can tell. It seems well worth the $100 and if I can successfully mod it to something even better so much the better. I don't fully understand the benefit of going to DC at the moment, but when I have a full grasp of how the internals of a welder work in general, I will look, at either modding it or simply duplicating it and making a DC unit based off of it. But that is another project for another day..Still the same goal, I want to run a successful bead that can be ground and like a weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by AbsintheAll I was really asking, is for technique. Again, knowing it is not optimal, there are still techniques. For instance, if for some reason your wire feed was too fast and your power too high you could still weld a bead by making bigger (wider) zigzags. At least that was the example the welder at work gave me .
Reply:First of all I am going to blame the poor weld on my lack of skill. By that I mean, this is the first time I held a wire feeder in my hand ever. I was not aware how to run a bead using a wire, which seems a fair amount different from both stick and O/A welding I have done in the past. The amount of spatter, I understand, is a product of the medium, and I will accept that, but I am sure there are "best practices" with that specific machine to reduce it (to whatever degree is possible), and others that make it even worse. As for the machine, it seems to be working correctly, and within normal parameters. The feed is clean, and consistent with no jumping or jamming. Of course there are 2 power settings (low and high) and a dial of wire feed speeds from 0 to 10 I think. Whatever the thinnest material is in the cheat sheet (116 or 18 ga I think) suggests using 1 so I interpolated that 0 might be better on 22 or 20 whichever I was working on. It is a hot tip, so theoretically I could do a long stickout and try and treat it like a stick welder but I know that doesn't work well  My initial issues were that I didn't really know the specific technique (e.g. stitching/zigzag) and obviously trying to run a straight long weld (like I would with a stick) was not working  I get your car metaphor, and believe it or not, that is not a far off description of what I drove all through high school  I spent more time underneath the car or hood than I remember in the driver's seat. But I kept it going and got where I needed to be. It was the hard way, but certainly worked, and I am probably a better driver today for it. My main welding interest is really O/A but this seems like a machine that will let me do some quick and dirty things and have a little fun. I by no means consider myself a welder and other than this my real last experiences welding were stick, forge and O/A in high school  years ago.   I do have an understanding of the "pool" to a degree, unfortunately, I can't see a blessed thing through the lovely #10 until the arc happens, and then can't see much for the smoke  I believe that I am coming at this with a realistic understanding of the 'quality' of the machine and its limitations. However, just like handling a lock-up skid in the rain, knowing the technique is less than half the solution to performing it. I know that once I know how to do it, it will take some practice to actually successfully do it. I guess I am looking for the 'turn into the direction of the skid' answer rather than 'try driving an M1 Abrams tank with treads when it rains' kind of thing.
Reply:I have that same welder. For an after work hack like myself...it's a fun toy. I'm currently fixing up my shoulda been thrown out yard trailer I tow behind my ATV...after I broke it yet again. I went with the .035 wire on mine. It seems like it splatters a bit less. I'll go back to some name brand .030 when my current spool runs out. I went with a flux nozzle. Basically, it sits right up againest the tip. It makes it easier for a newb like myself to see the bead. I found that to be very helpful. I found the HF auto darkening helmet to be a huge help. As you can see, you're going to get crap for owning this welder. For me, I wanted to learn to weld and maybe fix a few things that would never be on the road or put anyone in danger. For me, it fits the bill. If I ever good(I'm thinking of taking a class or two) I'll consider upgrading. For now, this works fine. Since I knew nothing about welding, I wasn't about to drop a few hundred bucks on a used name brand machine on Craigslist. At least with this unit, I could bring it back if it broke. If someone was dumping their used lemon, I'd be SOL.
Reply:I expect to eat a bunch of crow for any Harbor Freight tool I ever mention. It will do what I need it to do until I can either mod it to something better or make my own. (not seeming that difficult since I already have some of the necessary parts) Where did you get the flux nozzle? Does one for another unit fit it, or does HF sell it as an accessory?
Reply:Originally Posted by AbsintheI expect to eat a bunch of crow for any Harbor Freight tool I ever mention. It will do what I need it to do until I can either mod it to something better or make my own. (not seeming that difficult since I already have some of the necessary parts) Where did you get the flux nozzle? Does one for another unit fit it, or does HF sell it as an accessory?
Reply:Thanks, I will look through Miller's site. I am not getting the HF one blind, I have owned many different HF tools, and have a good general idea of what to expect from them. Neither my life nor livelihood is depending on this unit, so I feel safe enough with it. I just so happen to have some very large capacitors and a few high end bridge rectifiers to play with so I may give the mod a try as well. But for now, I will deal with the spatter, and use this to learn technique. It should be good enough for that.
Reply:I grabbed the flux nozzle at my local Home Depot. I think it's a Lincoln. It's a bit short for the HF unit. It doesn't cover as much on the backside as the stock nozzle. But that doesn't really effect anything as far as I can see. It lines up pretty flush with the tip.
Reply:Originally Posted by AbsintheI read the DC mod, and I might give that a try at some point. This is an AC unit as far as I can tell. It seems well worth the $100 and if I can successfully mod it to something even better so much the better. I don't fully understand the benefit of going to DC at the moment...Got my first 2 microwaves butchered tonight soon enough I will make my own. And I have twelve 4700 uF 450 volt capacitor to play with. Ethical or not it is what it is. AC to DC is not that tough a circuit. I think fitting it within the box is probably the bigger challange.  I will plaques with it as-is first.I am not sure what my volt and amp goal should be for a real one.  Can all welding be done DC? Or do you have to do stick as AC?
Reply:Originally Posted by rankrank1For the $100 you spent on this HF you could have spent the exact same $100 on a Jobsmart mig at TSC (on sale) and had DC like you should have without doing the mod to the HF.  Added a little more money to the pot and had an even better Nothern tool Mig.
Reply:Well, sort of. The Jobsmart is normally 139 or 159 depending on your area of the country. When they have their sales it does go down to $99.99.  However, the last two times they had the sale, it felt much like a bait and switch. They only had a few in stock, and those were sold out with seemingly no rain-checking. I have even gone there with the intention of paying full price, and had to leave because they pretty much didn't want to sell it to me. The person kept telling me that it was a 'Toy' and 'Useless' and instead for just a little more ($359) he would be happy to sell me the "EZ" one. (can't remember if it was the Hobart or Campbell Hausfield) some model with EZ in its name. I can only take so much of that silliness. Just unlock the stupid cabinet and give me my welder  I think if I were to buy anything new, I would deal with someone else than TSC, for just such shenanigans.
Reply:Some of the people that have posted advice here have shared from experience (spent their own $$$), but you seem like your willing to disregard that. On welding 26ga or what ever other thin material with fluxcore, its good to know that magic does exist in this world, the rest of us muggles will have to go on with our lives.If your machine cannot run a straight bead, there is no technique that will make up for that.
Reply:I just want to thank everyone for the great advice! I finally got a chance to give it another try using all the great advice I was given here as well as the other forum. Today I tried a butt joint again but this time I was not interested in making the joint as much as I was getting feel for the feed speed and maintaining a puddle and doing the stitch/zigzag thing. The butt joint sucked, but I laid down 3 simple beads that seem to have good penetration and though they are probably laughable by any professional standards, I am quite happy with them. For those of you that may be interested, here are a couple photos. https://picasaweb.google.com/1057504...eat=directlinkThe middle is just crazy, and the left one is with high power and too much speed. The two on the right are low power and 2 slight variants of speed. The metal is 20 or 22 gauge (don't remember which)The second picture shows the backside. I only brushed one of them, The rest are as they finished. No hammering, grinding or brushing. Thanks again for all your help. This is a fun and apparently capable machine.