Small arc air

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It seems people think of 600 amps to arc air (gouge), but I use some 1/8" rods and 150 to 180 amps to do the small stuff.  I was replacing the tires on a Dodge truck and the stinkin nuts would NOT come off.  First the shiny cover came off in the 3/4" socket, then I got a smaller socket (18mm) and tried again, it slipped on the hex, so I grabbed an 11/16 and drove it on.  Still no joy.  I welded a bolt to the lug nut, but no budge and the bolt broke off a few times.  I even tried a hardened bolt.  The lug nut was NOT going to come off.  SO I used the gouge to burn the stud out of the middle of the nut.  Here is what is left.Didn't hurt the aluminum wheel.  One new stud and a whole set of lug nuts.Left is one that did come off, the one on the right came off with the carbon arc wrench.I took a simple job of replacing 4 tires and turned it into a blow job.    DavidLast edited by David R; 10-18-2008 at 07:25 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hello David,                   Liked the pic's, Never tried gouging myself with only having 200amps on tap, In light of your experience will have to give it a go, I know someone who  lost his tool to the locking wheel nuts and the local dealer charged him a fortune to drill them off.You can never have too many tools we just have to keep finding new uses for them. nice job.  Best regards  gordon
Reply:Good thing you weren't trying to fix a flat in the desert!
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI took a simple job of replacing 4 tires and turned it into a blow job.    David
Reply:I removed  totally frozen lug bolts on an old Volkswagen beetle , by using oxy-acet. torch , just for heating the bolts , till they were "STINKING" hot , let 'em cool , then repeat. didn't have to cut , or melt anything .[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:anti seize ?i learned what "l" meant on a wheel stud at an early age. the hard wayinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:You don't need big amps to air gouge. Go to Arcair sight for the best info. If you have 200 amps you can airgouge. Rods as small as 1/8 dia are available.
Reply:air arc'n is a fast way of getting the job done but can be very loud.........the guys in my shop hate it when I get it going........but I am using 1/4inch rod and a 500amp unit...but it sure does make short work of the welds.........have you tried air arc'n aluminum before......it works wel
Reply:David,How much air compressor (PSI, and CFM) do you need to run those smaller carbon arc rods?  I've done some gouging with 3/8" rods, using a Big Dialarc and a monster CAT compressor.  I've always considered it impractical for my home shop, because I figured I'd need a really powerful air compressor.  Tell me I'm mistaken, and I'll be buying an air-arc gouging torch before the end of the week...DaveBenson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I always use 80 Psi.  I have a worn out 5 hp gas compressor on my truck and it will keep up with it.  I use a 200 amp holder.I will see how low (amps) I can go with 1/8" rod.I can tell when the amps are too high because it blows pieces off the electrode.Some inverters were NOT intended for gouging, so make sure before you try it. It is fun with 1/4" carbon and 300 amps.200 amps is just barely enough for 5/32 rod.DavidFor the lost keys for locking lugnuts,  I just weld a nut to em with 680 or allstate.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I set the regulator with the air flowing.  Then I don't have to worry  about how much I am loosing in the air hose no matter how long it is.It freezes up in the winter enough that I couldn't use it.DavidYou could always use this....Last edited by David R; 10-19-2008 at 10:29 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Nice bolt burn-out. Small carbon rods - I'll add that to the trick bag.
Reply:for lost lock tool all I do is take small die cut off wheel and cut into the corner of the lock lug about 1/4" the with air chisel and only 10-15 degrees of angle (almost straight at lug) give it a few raps with the chisel and its loose has always worked. quick and easy
Reply:I've got plenty of amperage at my disposal; the Lincoln 300D I have will crank out 300-350 amps.  It's the air compressor I wasn't sure of.  Most of the smaller garage/hobbyist compressors won't move enough air volume to get the job done.  The pressure is fine, they just run out of breath way too fast; or so I've been told.I'll start looking around for a compressor in the 5hp range, and see what it'll cost me.  How many gallons is the storage tank on your compressor? Originally Posted by David RI always use 80 Psi.  I have a worn out 5 hp gas compressor on my truck and it will keep up with it.  I use a 200 amp holder.I will see how low (amps) I can go with 1/8" rod.I can tell when the amps are too high because it blows pieces off the electrode.Some inverters were NOT intended for gouging, so make sure before you try it. It is fun with 1/4" carbon and 300 amps.200 amps is just barely enough for 5/32 rod.DavidFor the lost keys for locking lugnuts,  I just weld a nut to em with 680 or allstate.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do ...It's the air compressor I wasn't sure of.  Most of the smaller garage/hobbyist compressors won't move enough air volume to get the job done.  The pressure is fine, they just run out of breath way too fast...
Reply:I'm sure the 400 amp stinger uses more volume of air than the 200 amp.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Oh the K4000 I have uses up my 8gallons in about 4" with a 5/16" rod. I just got a baby stinger for the small stuff but the big boy gets er' done.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I also have the k4000 torch. The shop compressor has an 80 gal tank and a real 5hp baldor motor, not the 3hp 6.5 rated craftsman/lowes/home depot scam. With using a regulator I enough to keep up with what I can do. I only have a Bobcat 250 but i get by with using 5/32 and 3/16 carbons. I'd like to give the little rods a shot but my LWS doesn't stock them. I really ought to remember to order some.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:i have an old linde air arc its a dinasour and a beefy one but 3/16 is all i use along with my multiquip 225 deisel welder , and a 11 hp ciason twin head air compressor  it definatly keeps up and is a life safer when it comes down to using it . using air arc does put lots of stress on equipment though. do they make small flat ones. i know they have 3/8
Reply:I would think that the damaged nut removers that are available from snap-on or craftsman would work with those stripped lug nuts,  as well as damaged ones.   I have a set,   and I don't use them every day,  but when I do I am happy I have em.    beats fooling around with the vice grips for 20 minutes
Reply:The biggest rod I've ever gouged with was 5/8"SA800 set on high range just cranked.  It was fun.
Reply:Originally Posted by redlaker1I would think that the damaged nut removers that are available from snap-on or craftsman would work with those stripped lug nuts,  as well as damaged ones.   I have a set,   and I don't use them every day,  but when I do I am happy I have em.    beats fooling around with the vice grips for 20 minutes
Reply:Tried to use a ten foot cheater pipe to "break" some lug nuts loose once. We broke stuff alright. Used arc gouger for repair, refit work on hydraulic cylinders. If we had to save a tube and port because somebody welded the thing a quarter inch out of location ,because they stopped teaching how to read rulers in school, small gouging rod was the way to go. We kept 3/8 rod for any structural welds that showed porosity. Will have my own gouging setup someday!Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI have all those snap on tools.  Nuttin would take them off.  It happens.David
Reply:I agree,  you just have to know the limits of the easy outs.   I have been back to the snap on truck with a handfull of broken ones enough times to know.    I would rather try them first,  but if they don't  then I put the fire to them.   where I work the welder or torch isnt always an option so you have to improvise.Sorry to bring this back, but i've got a couple topical questions.Has anyone had any luck annealing easy outs and then drilling?  I've got another stuck one, and i'm not going to take it anymore.  I found a box of 1/8 carbons at work that i've been experiment ing with...  Seems like the ideal tool to heat up my little plug with out depositing any metal on it.  Without using air, as i can't blow hot slag though the hole in this case.Also, arcair says that the 1/8" carbons require only 60 - 90 amps... but you all are talking about 150 or more with them.  has anyone used them that low?  can anyone recomend a good light duty torch?  everything i can find either doesn't have specs or is good up to like 400 amps.  I'd like to spend as little as possible.  i've only got 150 amps, but would like to be able to gouge.
Reply:Yeah,  you can use 100 amps to gouge.  With small carbons.  You can even put the carbon in the regular stinger and use a blow gun for the air supply.  Just don't use one of those silly "safety" blow guns that limit you to 35 psi.Blow the air UNDER the carbon right along the rod at the same angle as the rod.  It works, its what I did before I finally got the real arc air holder.The smallest holder I have seen is 200 amps and it works fine.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:yeah i've been messing around with a blow gun, thanks to this thread.  Its not easy, but i got it to work enough to get a smile, and to see that it might be useful to get the real thing.I've seen a caution about arc goucing not working with some inverters due to low open circuit voltage, but i can testify that it does work with a little maxstar.  for anyone else out there wondering.
Reply:If the end of the 'Easy-out' is reachable, you might be able to just touch the pointed end of the carbon electrode to the E-O top and leave it touching rather than draw an arc. Resistance will heat and anneal the tool without having the radiated heat from the arc heat the metal around the E-O.Is this a copper-coated electrode? Even if it is, you might be able to use an old-fashioned pencil sharpener to put the point on it. Otherwise, a bench grinder will do.
Reply:I just wonder if you got much hot metal blow back in your direction when you took the middle out of those lugs David. It seems probable to me! "Duck and cover!" City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:you might try a tig torchto apply some heat to the easyout , might be less destructive to the surrounding metal..
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverI just wonder if you got much hot metal blow back in your direction when you took the middle out of those lugs David. It seems probable to me! "Duck and cover!"
Reply:thought the smallest arc air torch did up to 450Amps, 40psi @8CFM. the K2000looks like most shop compressors would work it at that rate.G
Reply:You are right, I just looked it up.  Guess mine is big enough for anything I would use.   Biggest carbon I can run is 1/4" and that is off my V350.  Ranger 250 will run 1/4" if I take my time.  I have been running at 80 psi.   I will have to try 40We all learn here!David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:david r ,have you done any arc air gouging with your invertec 350 yet? I'd like to know what you have to say about it, because I just bought the 350 contruction model, and like to know how this machine performs on 230 volts SINGLE phase power.mike.
Reply:This should be a good reminder for everyone that has aluminum wheels on their cars and trucks. Anti seize is cheap and doesn't take much time to put on. Buy in the jar or tube and every time a wheel comes off  put a little on and don't forget the hub surface as well. I have broke rims that were oxidized to the hub and it took a sledge hammer to break loose, but what are you gonna do when the tire is blown on the side of the road and you have to get it changed.
Reply:Originally Posted by mike rdavid r ,have you done any arc air gouging with your invertec 350 yet? I'd like to know what you have to say about it, because I just bought the 350 contruction model, and like to know how this machine performs on 230 volts SINGLE phase power.mike.
Reply:Dave, the reason I ask if the 350 will do this is because, I got a PDF file instruction manual from arcairs site, and in this manual it states "any 3 PHASE power CC current DC machine with 60 VOLTS open circuit voltage is recommended, and SINGLE PHASE power input not recomended for gouging.anyway I am GLAD to hear you have no problem keeping the arc steady, while on single phase.I have single phase also, and thought i'd ask.thank you.mike.