Best welder for under $200-$300 for my needs?

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I'm looking to buy a cheap welder, I have indeed done a lot of research in general, especially on the MIG vs Stick debate. It seems like most people really highly recommend Gas MIG, but i'm leaning towards stick right now.  I'd like to hear some opinions based on my actual needs.I only really plan to use it a couple times a year, so I want something that is cheap, and has a small footprint for tucking it out of the way or on a shelf, and hopefully can run off a 110 outlet since thats what I have in the garage (although I could install a 220 if it comes down to it).  I know I'm trying to go cheap, but I don't want to produce any garbage or welds that will fall apart, I'd rather not even own one that own one that is junk.  I will do most of the welding outside in the driveway, or perhaps just slightly inside the garage door since i have nice toys in the garage that I'm not comfortable having sparks fly around.  Most common materials would likely be stuff like 1 or 2 inch square tube, maybe some sheet metal, etc but I'd like as much versatility as possible.Now heres the reasons I'm leaning most towards stick. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of these1. Cheaper, I figure for my low budget I'd probably end up with better quality welds with stick than a low end MIG.  I heard they can be more versatle for the price.2. Will be doing welding outdoors, or barely inside the garage, breezes can be common.3. It seems more versatle, I like that I can just swap sticks in a second, for different tasks rather than having to swap out entire reels or whatever you have to do with a mig welder, and I've heard you can even weld aluminum with stick.4. I've taken a 16 hour class before on stick welding and, while I didn't have perfect dimestack or v-stack beads, they seemed solid, and I didn't think it was as hard as people acted like.5. I heard that beginners on a MIG can often lay down beads that look good but have hardly any penetration and will break, but that this is much less likely with stick.  Since I will likely weld very infrequently, I'll probably be a novice for a long time and don't want to be tricked by a bead that looks good but isn't.6. No worries about purchasing gas.7. It seems like the specs on all the cheap MIGs I look at are very limited in material thickness, like 1/8 inch max.  I'm pretty sure stick can do thicker for the price.And heres the only reasons I'm really considering MIG, let me know if there should be more.1. Everyone says its so good and so easy and the way to go2. I hate chipping slag.What do you guys think?  Any models in particular to recommend as well?Last edited by carl1864; 06-26-2011 at 06:58 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by carl1864I'm looking to buy a cheap welder, I have indeed done a lot of research in general, especially on the MIG vs Stick debate. It seems like most people really highly recommend Gas MIG, but i'm leaning towards stick right now.  I'd like to hear some opinions based on my actual needs.I only really plan to use it a couple times a year, so I want something that is cheap, and has a small footprint for tucking it out of the way or on a shelf, and hopefully can run off a 110 outlet since thats what I have in the garage (although I could install a 220 if it comes down to it).  I know I'm trying to go cheap, but I don't want to produce any garbage or welds that will fall apart, I'd rather not even own one that own one that is junk.  I will do most of the welding outside in the driveway, or perhaps just slightly inside the garage door since i have nice toys in the garage that I'm not comfortable having sparks fly around.  Most common materials would likely be stuff like 1 or 2 inch square tube, maybe some sheet metal, etc but I'd like as much versatility as possible.Now heres the reasons I'm leaning most towards stick. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of these1. Cheaper, I figure for my low budget I'd probably end up with better quality welds with stick than a low end MIG.  I heard they can be more versatle for the price.2. Will be doing welding outdoors, or barely inside the garage, breezes can be common.3. It seems more versatle, I like that I can just swap sticks in a second, for different tasks rather than having to swap out entire reels or whatever you have to do with a mig welder, and I've heard you can even weld aluminum with stick.4. I've taken a 16 hour class before on stick welding and, while I didn't have perfect dimestack or v-stack beads, they seemed solid, and I didn't think it was as hard as people acted like.5. I heard that beginners on a MIG can often lay down beads that look good but have hardly any penetration and will break, but that this is much less likely with stick.  Since I will likely weld very infrequently, I'll probably be a novice for a long time and don't want to be tricked by a bead that looks good but isn't.6. No worries about purchasing gas.7. It seems like the specs on all the cheap MIGs I look at are very limited in material thickness, like 1/8 inch max.  I'm pretty sure stick can do thicker for the price.And heres the only reasons I'm really considering MIG, let me know if there should be more.1. Everyone says its so good and so easy and the way to go2. I hate chipping slag.What do you guys think?  Any models in particular to recommend as well?
Reply:If you want a stick that's small and runs on 110V power ... find  one of the new inverter type stick welders. They can range from $150 up to $350 (or more) They come in a briefcase and can weld up to 3/16 material maybe even 1/4". I like my various welders and probably have too many,but I bought a 7.5 pound Forney inverter last year because it does DC & I wanted to practice Tig on SS sheet. I use it for everything but Tig. I've never tried the Harbor Freight model or any of the several other manufacturers models out there. You'll need to pick your own machine. I've seen video demos on Youtube for some of them.A lot of people don't think these little buggers are anything more than toys... Unless you want to build trailers or other things that require a better machine...You'll probably like the inverter.Bottom line.... as per your original post.... Stick--Small--110V--that can get the job done---Under $300..... You described a 110V inverter welder.Pick your poison... I really like mine,which is just my opinion.
Reply:Welding aluminum with stick is more specialized than steel, but can be done. Once you buy a stick welder, buy some electrode and that's it. Low overhead.  If your welds are _good_, slag doesnt get chipped, it gets brushed off. Hardly a hassle. Being able to use different electrodes if a big plus for me. Plus the portability of the stinger, versus the neck of a mig, is big for me. I never have to mess with the feed rollers, tension or have the roll birdcage on me.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:For $200 - $300, you are in the region of:used flux core welder - like an older Lincoln, Miller or Hobart 110 volt unit (70 - 90 amps welding)new inverter 110 volt DC stick unit (80 - 90 amps welding on a 20 amp circuit)used inverter 100 volt DC stick/tig unit (80 - 90 amps welding on a 20 amp circuit)used older AC/DC transformer unit like a 220 amp AC / 125 amp DC Lincoln tombstome (on a 30 to 40 amp 220 volt circuit), or even a250 amp AC / 250 amp DC Lincoln Idealarc (on a 100 amp 220 volt circuit)At your budget, gas is out of the question, so that eliminates MIG and TIG.It`s going to be flux core or stick.$200 to $300 is going to get you a used low-end wire feed welder or in a stick welder, that money could get you a new 110 volt highly portable(<20 lbs) DC inveter (will run most 3/32 but not 1/8 inch electrodes) or a semi-transportable (100 lbs) 220 volt transformer 220AC/125DC amp unit that will run 1/8 or 5/32 inch electrodes, or an older 220 volt Lincoln Idealarc that will run any most any size electrode (but it's not to moveable at 300 lbs) .It's a tough call - the portability of inverter verses the amp power of a 220 volt transformer.The only fly in the stick-ointment is that for sheet metal, flux core wire is easier to use than stick.  However, there are some folks here that do it - 14 gauge by Scott Young http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=36396For auto-repair work I use 20 or 21 gauge and some heavier 18 gauge.21 gauge is not too bad with flux core but a challenge with 1/16 inch 6013 stick.You are following the correct approach; you did you own research first then asking the boys here.  Opinions may differ and in the end... it's your decision.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:One thing you don't want to go cheap on is a welder.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Do not consider this a recommendation but Everlast has a dual voltage arc welder/tig welder that is 100 amp on 110 volt and 140 amp on 220 volt for $229.  Longetivity also has a similar dual for voltage model at a similar price although it may lack a feature or two of the Everlast.  Some people love these brands and some people hate em so it is a crapshoot on durability.MIG is useless outside - wind blows the gas away.  Fluxcore works good outside but you still have to chip slag with fluxcore.  Fluxcore has increased penetration over Mig allowing the welding of slightly thicker metal better which is helpful on a 115 volt unit, but fluxcore will not weld quite as thin of metal as mig mode will either.  Fluxcore not recommended for bodywork - flux makes paint bubble now matter how well you clean it.  I would look at the Northern Migs if low cost was #1 importance as they look decent but I have never owned or used one.  You would probably be better served to add a few dollars and get either a Hobart 140 (110 volt) or 187 (220 volt).  Wire feeder consumables do add up over time.  Liners, tips, drive rollers etc. so if you do not plan to weld really thin metal then stick is cheaper.For a cheap welder that never depreciates it will be hard to beat an old used Lincoln, Hobart, or Miller AC buzzbox from Craigslist for $100 or $150.  Add DC capability for another $100 or so and you have a very versatile welder that is proven.  You will need to have 220 volts to power it but it will still be working 50 years from now too.Last edited by rankrank1; 06-26-2011 at 12:12 PM.
Reply:Your going to have to double your budget atleast. I would forget anything that is strickly 110v since that would limit your top output. If your looking for something new then the cheapest name brand inverter that is 110/220 would be the Thermal arc 160s. You can find them selling as low as $640. It also offers lift-start tig so when you have some more money to spend you can get the acessories you need and be able to weld thin materials. On 110 is should be able to run 3/32" rod at 80amps at a constant but if you start running higher then you'll run into duty cycle issues. Now if you get 220v installed then you should be able to run up to 5/32 rods.One more thing on 110 is that if you have a good 20a circuit then this can run of a 100ft 12 ga ext cord.
Reply:Don't forget the cost of the following:1.  Welding Helmet2.  Gloves3.  C-Clamps or F-Style clamps4.  Grinder with all accessories5.  Something to cut your metal with (Chop saw, Bandsaw, Reciprocating saw, etc.)6.  Other....Your budget is a huge limitation.
Reply:110 plus outdoors is pretty much small inverter territory. Use 6013 to dodge the slag hassle.For a few times a year, where is your nearest range or dryer 220 outlet? Extension cords and adapters will let you take advantage of them. When I rented, I carried a dryer pigtail adapter and put it to good use. It still hangs by my dryer since I run a compressor from that now and then.
Reply:Originally Posted by joedirt1966Don't forget the cost of the following:1.  Welding Helmet2.  Gloves3.  C-Clamps or F-Style clamps4.  Grinder with all accessories5.  Something to cut your metal with (Chop saw, Bandsaw, Reciprocating saw, etc.)6.  Other....Your budget is a huge limitation.
Reply:i would save your money and buy this hobart mig.http://www.ruralking.com/welder-mig-handler-140.htmlmy stepbrother bought a lincoln 140c friday, he paid $675 for it. it also has a $75 mail in rebate so he will end up with $600 in the machine... he does body work mainly and wanted the infinite settings of the 140c.. nice little machine for $600... you could get the hobart 130amp mig, its a hair over $300... http://www.ruralking.com/tools/hobar...115v-wire.html you could also hit up craiglist and look for an used welder.. all kinds of the smaller migs on there,  pretty sure you can get one within your budget going used, just stick with a name brand and try it before you buy it..   i suggest using this craiglist search bot http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/sd.cgi?cat=tls  also pick your region on the right, its pretty handy..Last edited by brucer; 06-26-2011 at 01:58 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:I actually do already own own helmet, gloves, grinder, clamps, saws, the whole works.I have a 220 dryer outlet in the laundry room next to the garage that I could potentially run an extension cord from if necessary.  Also the breaker box is in the garage, so I think it would be easy to learn how to install a 220.  Does 220 volts make a drastic difference?  And what about the ones that run off either 110 or 220, are they generally good?How much wind does it really take to blow away the mig gas?  Is it like 1mph, or 10mph?When you guys refer to an inverter type welder, does that just mean DC, or is that something different?  What about ones that do AC and DC?  Harbor freight has a tri mode one that can be bought for under $150 after sales and 20% coupon.  http://www.harborfreight.com/135-ac-...der-97719.htmlIt is 220 volts though, but seems pretty flexible, can do up to 1/4 thick material.I have also ran across quite a few of the not so brand names like campbell hausfeld, especially on amazon, that are flux core mig welders with the option for gas, for under $250, can those be any good?I have looked at some of the brand name ones like lincoln, hobart.  Both wire feed and stick, but it seems like any one in that price range for the brand names lists max thickness as 1/8 inch.  Even though I won't likely weld any thicker very often at all, I'd like the option, that just seems under powered.  I think I found the everlast one that rankrank1 mentioned on ebay.  http://cgi.ebay.com/EVERLAST-140a-LI...item4aac232573Definetly has my interest a little bit, but I honestly don't know enough to really have any idea if its good or not.  Seems like one that does both stick and tig could have a lot of uses, I believe tig does aluminum well also right?Thanks.
Reply:inverter machines use inverter technology which greatly reduces the size of the welder... generally an inverter based stick welder is about the size of a large lunchbox..  the old transformer stick welders are large and  heavy.. same goes for inverter and transformer migs.. size and weight of the technology. i think 220v makes a huge difference in welders, if your at all able to use 220v for your welder i would go to 220v..   again i would go used with your budget, and try before you buy.. edited this in....  you could also increase your budget and go up to a 180amp machine, and that gives you an option later on of adding a spoolgun for aluminum, and that would make a very versatile setup..Last edited by brucer; 06-26-2011 at 03:12 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by carl1864I actually do already own own helmet, gloves, grinder, clamps, saws, the whole works.
Reply:i started a thread below this but i'll throw this out here as well.  i paid $528 out the door for my hobart hander 187 today at tractor supply.  i know it's 220 and over your budget but i thought i woudl suggest it anyway.  hope this helps
Reply:A lot of newbies (me included) always seem to look at the pure cost of the welder you are looking to buy. This alone makes the cheaper welders more desirable, since they have the same 'specs' as the more expensive name brands (Miller/Lincoln/Thermal Arc/Hobart for example). However, there is one thing that effects the 'price' of a welder which allows the name brands to totally blow the cheaper stuff out of the water.I bring you:RESALE VALUE!!!If you buy a used name brand welder, I am positive you will be able to sell that welder for at least 75% of what you paid for it.So let's do some math here:Let's say you buy a Millermatic 211 used. They seem to go for about $900 used. 75% of $900 = $675$900 - $675 = $225 which is your true cost to own the welder.I can promise you that you cannot buy any 'cheap' welder for $225 that will give you as much happy service as the Millermatic 211 we just used as an example.This is just my personal opinion and I hope my post gave you something else to confuse you while you look for a welder.
Reply:Resale value is a good point, although I'm the type of person who very rarely ever sells anything, if i buy a tool I keep it, so resale value is of little importance to me compared to up front value.  So those expensive welders are just too much for me, especially since I don't plan to use it more than the occasional fix, or homemade tool, etc.  Also I have one job that I need it for soon, and about $250 is all I have right now.I've got a lot of good advice on here, it would be nice to hear some more specific models since sometimes people will make reference towards a particular type, but then I have a tough time finding exactly what model(s) they are talking about.Right now these 2 harbor freight ones have my interest, A tri-mode, ac or dc 220 volthttp://www.harborfreight.com/135-ac-...der-97719.htmland a nice small inverter type that can run off 110 or 220, and is DChttp://www.harborfreight.com/80-amp-...der-91110.htmlI have a 20% off coupon, so the prices will be very affordable.Anyone know if those would be much good? What are their likely downsides? And if there is any other models that would likely be better that are still within my price range?I'm still leaning towards stick, since I hear gas mig can't be done outdoors, and don't hear the greatest things about flux core mig.  Also the simplicity of not messing with wire spools, and I hear it is better on metals that aren't as completely clean, such as repairs in tight spots you can't grind/brush well.Last edited by carl1864; 06-27-2011 at 01:01 AM.
Reply:There is an old saying.  You get what you pay for.  Sometimes you get less than you pay for.  So let's say you buy a cheapo $200 (or less) welder and get less than you pay for.  What do you have?When I tell one of my customer's that I can fix something cheap, but temporary, or expensive and permanent, he always says the same thing.  "If you spend the money and do it right the first time, it only hurts once."  Looking at small inverter stick welders, starting from the bottom up, I would consider Thermal Arc, Hobart, and Lincoln, with Miller at the top.While I have considered the Harbor Freight units for my dirty, corrosive environment, hog house repairs.  As cheap as they are, I still just can't make myself buy one.Last edited by Boostinjdm; 06-27-2011 at 01:28 AM.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I dont know a whole lot about welding yet, but I do know enough to stay as far away from Harbor Freight as possible. Nothing electronic they make is worth 10 bucks, let alone what they want for it.If you want stick, just search craigslist, there are old stick welders on craigslist all the time here in Idaho for 100 to 200 bucks. Well-built Stick welders can last 100 years if you treat them right, so there are plenty of them around.
Reply:Originally Posted by HOBARTi started a thread below this but i'll throw this out here as well.  i paid $528 out the door for my hobart hander 187 today at tractor supply.  i know it's 220 and over your budget but i thought i woudl suggest it anyway.  hope this helps
Reply:Originally Posted by carl1864Resale value is a good point, although I'm the type of person who very rarely ever sells anything, if i buy a tool I keep it, so resale value is of little importance to me compared to up front value.  So those expensive welders are just too much for me, especially since I don't plan to use it more than the occasional fix, or homemade tool, etc.  Also I have one job that I need it for soon, and about $250 is all I have right now.I've got a lot of good advice on here, it would be nice to hear some more specific models since sometimes people will make reference towards a particular type, but then I have a tough time finding exactly what model(s) they are talking about.Right now these 2 harbor freight ones have my interest, A tri-mode, ac or dc 220 volthttp://www.harborfreight.com/135-ac-...der-97719.htmland a nice small inverter type that can run off 110 or 220, and is DChttp://www.harborfreight.com/80-amp-...der-91110.htmlI have a 20% off coupon, so the prices will be very affordable.Anyone know if those would be much good? What are their likely downsides? And if there is any other models that would likely be better that are still within my price range?I'm still leaning towards stick, since I hear gas mig can't be done outdoors, and don't hear the greatest things about flux core mig.  Also the simplicity of not messing with wire spools, and I hear it is better on metals that aren't as completely clean, such as repairs in tight spots you can't grind/brush well.
Reply:For what it's worth, I really liked the Harbor Freight 85a inverter stick welder. I still think you can do much better used though.
Reply:Well you asked....http://cgi.ebay.com/Forney-100-Inver...item19c5f9e85bORhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Forney-100SP-Inv...item19c6970907Both machines are superior to the Harbor Freight model which is made in China. The Forney units are made in Italy.Although Forney has discontinued this portion of their line the machine is very usable. I spoke to the manufacturers representive a few weeks ago and these units were supposed to retail for $300+.... He would sell me these units for $200 each in lots of 10.They come in a briefcase and can be used for scratch start Tig on steel or SS by purchasing a Tig torch,but for your intended needs with the ability to store it in the closet most of the time I think it's the machine you are describing as "What you want" .I've got a large Lincoln Mig w/spoolgun, a Hobart 140, a Lincwelder 225,an old AC welder and several other toys..... and I'm sorry,but I pull out the little Forney for most all minor fixes & repairs. Maybe it's because it's less than 8 pounds or because it's just too simple to hook up or too simple to use,but most of the time I use it just to see what it's limits are..... anyone that hasn't actually used one of these small inverter welders usually thinks they are useless...they aren't. You can't build anything like a trailer (maybe) but for light duty fabrication or misc. repairs or just tacking something together for a heavier duty machine to finish...I love this little machine. If it went "POOF" tomorrow.... I'd replace it ASAP.Bottom line... For your requirements as stated... Yes,the high dollar machines will do it,but at what cost? I have those machines and still grab the little inverter unless it's something that requires a big machine... It's great to have it fixed before I could even drag the bigger machines out and get everything situated. Even the Hobart 140 weighs 60-70 pounds and even on it's cart in my limited floor space it's not much fun to wrestle around for a quick repair and then pack it back in it's place. Thermal Arc sells a 95s unit at about $300 ,the Harbor Freight unit is $180, the Forney is $200...there are several others all around $300 up to much more... For a hobby welder that takes up little room and is perfectly capable of handling your stated requirements I don't think you'll find a machine that better suits your needs.You can find a used bigger machine that uses 220v for less money this is absolutely true,but that isn't what you stated as your required machine options.... Harbor Freight no longer accepts the 20% off coupons on welders as someone else stated.The final choice will have to be yours...everyone has their own ideas about machine requirements and value... I'm lucky enough I don't have to pick one machine I have several options in the shop,but if I was faced with a single choice and your guidelines the choice is pretty clear.The little Forney is in some pretty good company in this group...[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRzLqBzfl0A[/ame]This guy is taken with the Harbor Freight 80A inverter[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bujvEHMcnEE[/ame]
Reply:"Most common materials would likely be stuff like 1 or 2 inch square tube, maybe some sheet metal, etc but I'd like as much versatility as possible."It will take some practice to weld .060-.080 wall tubing with stick,if you are concerned with looks.You have the option to install 220, so I'd do that first. It's a huge plus for future tools. Put a 20A 110 breaker in for running a light inverter if you start with that. Power is good for a lot more than welding. Small inverters can trip 15A 110 breakers, so the 20A covers that as well as large electric tools should you want them in future. Welding machines are addictive. You may find you want a variety as time goes by.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallWelding machines are addictive. You may find you want a variety as time goes by.
Reply:Originally Posted by mudbugoneWell you asked....http://cgi.ebay.com/Forney-100-Inver...item19c5f9e85bORhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Forney-100SP-Inv...item19c6970907Both machines are superior to the Harbor Freight model which is made in China. The Forney units are made in Italy.Although Forney has discontinued this portion of their line the machine is very usable. I spoke to the manufacturers representive a few weeks ago and these units were supposed to retail for $300+.... He would sell me these units for $200 each in lots of 10.They come in a briefcase and can be used for scratch start Tig on steel or SS by purchasing a Tig torch,but for your intended needs with the ability to store it in the closet most of the time I think it's the machine you are describing as "What you want" .I've got a large Lincoln Mig w/spoolgun, a Hobart 140, a Lincwelder 225,an old AC welder and several other toys..... and I'm sorry,but I pull out the little Forney for most all minor fixes & repairs. Maybe it's because it's less than 8 pounds or because it's just too simple to hook up or too simple to use,but most of the time I use it just to see what it's limits are..... anyone that hasn't actually used one of these small inverter welders usually thinks they are useless...they aren't. You can't build anything like a trailer (maybe) but for light duty fabrication or misc. repairs or just tacking something together for a heavier duty machine to finish...I love this little machine. If it went "POOF" tomorrow.... I'd replace it ASAP.Bottom line... For your requirements as stated... Yes,the high dollar machines will do it,but at what cost? I have those machines and still grab the little inverter unless it's something that requires a big machine... It's great to have it fixed before I could even drag the bigger machines out and get everything situated. Even the Hobart 140 weighs 60-70 pounds and even on it's cart in my limited floor space it's not much fun to wrestle around for a quick repair and then pack it back in it's place. Thermal Arc sells a 95s unit at about $300 ,the Harbor Freight unit is $180, the Forney is $200...there are several others all around $300 up to much more... For a hobby welder that takes up little room and is perfectly capable of handling your stated requirements I don't think you'll find a machine that better suits your needs.You can find a used bigger machine that uses 220v for less money this is absolutely true,but that isn't what you stated as your required machine options.... Harbor Freight no longer accepts the 20% off coupons on welders as someone else stated.The final choice will have to be yours...everyone has their own ideas about machine requirements and value... I'm lucky enough I don't have to pick one machine I have several options in the shop,but if I was faced with a single choice and your guidelines the choice is pretty clear.
Reply:1. At 100A the 110v unit is at it's working limit while a 220v machine is just coasting with ease. You'll have to be doing some serious heavy welding to max out the Forney machine. The same seller of those units listed also has the 220v Forney AT160 machine listed for sale at $400 if you think you need the extra power. 2. I have one of those HF AC/DC units I bought used only to discover the switch was burned out. It's big & heavy ,but I can't say about it's functionality. It only has slightly more DC output than the Forney unit and requires a 220v circuit..... 3.In order for a Tig to do Aluminum it needs a high frequency arc starter for the AC portion of the machine. The Forney is DC only therefore it can't do Aluminum Tig.... But being a DC machine it can run small aluminum Electrodes for stick welding Aluminum although not very thick aluminum or very well unless you are good.Those Forney machines I listed for sale on Ebay are being sold at wholesale prices and probably won't be listed at those prices again. At $200 I think it's a better deal than the Harbor Freight unit and if you decide you don't like it you could relist it and probably get most of your money back somewhere down the road.... I can't imagine your not liking it though if you're familiar with stick welding already.The machine runs best with 1/16" rods under 50A and runs 3/32" rods at higher settings. When I first got mine all I had were some 1/8" rods and it was straining the machines ability... I wasn't impressed. When I finally found some 1/16" rods it was like an entirely different machine. I've looked lots of places for 1/16" rods BTW and Harbor Freight has the best price for a 2# pack at $10 which is a lot better than anywhere else I checked (Plus 20% off = $8 )The machine still burns pretty hot around 50A and I had trouble with burn thru on a 55gal drum I was attaching sq. tube to for casters when I was making a rolling chop saw stand from the drum. Don't get excited (It couldn't go BOOM)---The top was open... the drum was rusty... I just wanted to mount the saw in the drum so the slag falls into the drum.Let us know what you eventually decide to purchase and how well you like whatever you do buy.... I'll be interested
Reply:Make sure you look at the input requirements.  They vary a lot.  You might not get full output on a standard 120v circuit.  Some welders require as high as a 30 amp breaker which are not common in a normal house/garage.My name's not Jim....
Reply:The circuits in my shop are 20A,but I have used the machine at other locations for minor repairs and didn't trip the breaker.I think the Forney is rated for a 20A circuit. That is a simple adjustment to the outlet circuit unless you have sub-standard wiring installed. I've not tripped a circuit yet using this machine and I ran it wide open with a 1/8" 6011 rod re-welding a porch railing for a little old lady. Granted I wasn't welding for an hour but there were 8-10 broken spots and places where the railing had rusted loose from the base mounts... Those places were a bit more than spot welds & a couple had to be built up.
Reply:I checked the circuit panel and the garage has a 20 amp breaker, as well as apparently a dedicated 20a outlet.  I've never done it before, but I'm pretty sure its easy to swap in 25a or 30a breaker if necessary as well.I've done a bit of research on that Forney AT 100, and it got fantastic reviews.  On Amazon. out of 12 total, 11 were 5 star, and one was 4 star.  Also seemed to have very positive opinions everywhere I found reference to it on the web.  I'm baffled why such a awesome little device would be discontinued?Apparently they actually were selling for $99, and $119 in the past, so $199 is actually a markup but still a comparible price to HF.  Maybe they might be going up in price since those units on ebay seem to be the last ones that can be found for sale.
Reply:I highly recommend 2 things based on your budget, 1:install 220 v power source.  anything over 1/8" wall thickness is going to require a 220v machine or multiple passes with a 110 and still not good penetration.  2:  look for a quality used machine.   I see the old Lincoln buzz boxes (tombsstone) and other similar stick machines for 50-300 bucks daily on craigslist all over.   you can generally resell it when you move up or on to a different machine for what you pay for it.    Net cost is ZERO,   clean it up and you may even make a profit on it.  It's not the machine that makes a poor weld that breaks by the way as you mentioned. It's the operator doing the welding.   I pretty much bet any of the good weldors on this site could use any crap machine and get a good weld that won't break with proper joint prep, cleaning and multiple pass welds.....Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:They were selling for $99-$119 when they were closed out,but retail from Forney was $299...They didn't move at that price so out they went. I suspect the seller on Ebay bought several at the closeout price and is now making a profit...As I said earlier I talked to the Manufacturer located in Chicago,but definately Italian and wholesale on that AT100 is $199 from him. They might be the ones selling them BTW.It requires a 20A circuit so your OK with the circuit in your garage.
Reply:Originally Posted by KenHthat's a great deal. How you paid only $528 PM I would like to get one.  (current listing for $ 549.99 + tax (+ shipping)
Reply:With the vids and pics that people put up about the strickly 110v inverters seems to show that they are more or less just on the other side of being useful.  I look at it this way, it seems like your asking for a little pickup truck that way you can carry stuff around (the welder you want).  But your are now willing to settle for a little import station wagon (this is the Forney inverter) because its cheap. Now if your willing to give your budget some room you can get a Dodge Dakota with a V8 (this would be the Thermal arc 160s). In some respects it can do the work of a larger truck but still feel like a small p/u. With 160 amp inverter you would be able to weld on 1" plate if needed and with the tig function down to 20 ga. At work we get to use the Miller big 500 diesel welders ($15k) and my little inverter runs just as nice. This last weekend I used my little machine at home on 220v using 3/32" 7018 at 80-85 amps and had no problem welding 1/4" to 3/8" plate. I could have done it with 110v but I chose 220v because at the office/shop they have no 220v setup yet and have no choice but to use 110v.Last edited by Jay O; 06-27-2011 at 10:02 PM.
Reply:I looked into that thermal arc 160s again, but when I typed it into google shopping, it was $2,271, and $800 on ebay.  You had said earlier it could be found for around $600, but either way thats just too much for me.  If I planned to do a lot of major welding I'd be willing to pay more, but for my plans of the occasional small fix, and occasional little angle iron project, and lack of funds right now I just can't justify an expensive welderSo far I am leaning very strongly towards that $200 forney 100A inverter, but going to give it a few more days of thought and still open for input.  I figure its super small, simple and convinient, and although 110v is a bit of a disadvantage, it also can be a great advantage at the same time being I can bring it over to a buddys house, to my cabin, almost anywhere  without having to install 220 outlets all over.  The youtube videos of it, and its slightly smaller cousin the HF 80 amp inverter seem like something I'd be happy with.  Its rated to a material thickness of 3/16 which is most likely the max I'd ever need to weld.  A lot of people who even own expensive welders say they really like this handy one and use it a lot, and just use their bigger ones for the big jobs, so I figure even if I ever were to get hooked and upgrade down the road, this one will still be handy and get used often so it wouldn't be a loss.  Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong about any of these things, but that's what my research is pointing to.Also, when welders are rated to 3/16, does that basically mean up to 3/16 of penetration?  I could still if necessary (not likely to be for me), weld thicker material as long as I have access to both sides right?  Like for example a T intersection with 5/16 steel plate, if I just put a good quality bead on each side, then it would be fully welded right, since 3/16 + 3/16 = 3/8 (or 6/16)?Last edited by carl1864; 06-28-2011 at 01:45 AM.
Reply:Sorry had the wrong model #, here is a link.http://store.cyberweld.com/tharc16st...31367374776570"Also, when welders are rated to 3/16, does that basically mean up to 3/16 of penetration? I could still if necessary (not likely to be for me), weld thicker material as long as I have access to both sides right? Like for example a T intersection with 5/16 steel plate, if I just put a good quality bead on each side, then it would be fully welded right, since 3/16 + 3/16 = 3/8 (or 6/16)? "  Here is where your going to go wrong with your choice. Usually rated max thickness on a full pen weld with beveled egdes. Now your talking about 5/16 plate which in a t-joint is going to have more thermal mass and so now you'll need more amps. Can the little machine weld a bead? Maybe but now its output will be suspect.Last edited by Jay O; 06-28-2011 at 02:35 AM.
Reply:I agree with his observation about stretching a 110v unit as described... If that's the intention all bets are off and a much heavier machine needs to be purchased.... That was not the original description listed as function needed and is beyond a small welder in my opinion.I do like that Thermal Arc unit though...I like it's ability to utilize both 110v & 220v when required. ...Really nice machine, I need to look at that one.You don't need a huge trackhoe to dig a small trench when a small one gets the job done as well..... It's called overkill.Seriously LOOK at a piece of 3/16" material ..... I think all would agree that for non-critical hobby welds on things around the shop that if a machine is able to weld that then anything more is overkill. I was using my mig to fabricate useful things around the shop like carts & racks,but started using the little Forney instead...I guess I did this more as practice using the stick which I've never been very good at,but found it's just much simpler to pull it out than to mess with the larger machines for basic non-critical fabricating. If I turn it down low then I'm less apt to burn thru small tubing or thin stuff...It's doubtfull you'll be welding even 3/16" material from your original description of your needs,which is what I was addressing...not having the biggest welder on the block.Granted I have maybe not THE biggest welder on the block also,but that wasn't the original parameters given.... I answered those requirements as given.I think even my Hobart 140 says it will weld 3/16" . If you want to step up to the 220v machines and still stay close to your $300 limit,the same seller has the Forney 160A inverter at $399   http://cgi.ebay.com/Forney-160-Inver...item19c5c7696bI don't find that 220v is any more useful than 110v when welding thin everyday hobby stuff around the shop.... actually I find just the opposite to be the norm. I'm no super weldor by any stretch,but this is just practical everyday usage. Yes...the 110v stick is operating at it's limits running 3/32 rods,but that's not 99% of it's usage for me anyway. I have used it on it's highest setting just to see if it could...it did....would I build a trailer with it out of 3/16" material ... NO!... Would I attach angle iron brackets to a trailer for fenders or lights or racks....positively and without a worry at all.Point is it has it's place and for what it is and costs it's a tool that can do what it's designed to do within the parameters of that design. I really want to know your final decision when & if you pick a machine. There are many variables in picking a machine...price...usability...functions...electric  al requirements. I've been very lucky (knock on wood) I've acquired almost any required welder to cover almost anything I might need out of a welder. They all fill a gap and I like them all for their particular ability...the Forney is just one which fills a particular ability. It's a nice machine,well built,right price,& does what I need it to do...that's all I ask of a tool.There are several directions you could go and several machine options have been presented.... It doesn't matter to me which one you pick they have all been valid presentations and none of us are getting a kick back from the manufacturers or selling a machine. This has just been an open discussion about different options. You have to buy the machine you want and you have to live with it.... although I bought several that I later sold to upgrade.... my first wire feed was a Clarke 95 with a missing cover.. it turned into the Hobart 140..LOL...but believe it or not I still miss that little machine,I never worried about messing it up and it welded fine within it's parameters. I guess that's the point... you can make anything 'work' and always upgrade should that be necessary or desirable.Don't get tangled up in machine selection... buy the best you can that does what you want and spend the most time enjoying the purchase. I never knew how handy having a welder could be until I got one...they should be required learning about age 10..Last edited by mudbugone; 06-28-2011 at 03:19 AM.
Reply:I'm fortunate to own a number of machines from 100amp to 350amp capacity.  I find that I most always grab the smallest machine that will do the job at hand.  And "single pass capacity" is just not that important in the real world.  For a job shop it means a time savings so you can get more work out the door.  So in that respect you have to have the capacity to stay competitive.  For a hobby welder on a budget there's simply no need to have a big expensive machine.Many years ago I had to weld a 1" thick bracket on a timber cutter that was broke down in a swamp.  the only way we could even get to it was with a ATV.  We put a very small cracker box welder, grinder and generator on a pallet and drug it behind the ATV to the machine and repaired it where it sat.  I know I made at least 4 passes with that little machine, maybe more and that piece of equipment is still running today with no further repair.Single pass capability is great but you gotta do what you gotta do with what you have.  Time is not the enemy of a hobby welder.  It is the enemy of a job shop in a competitive market.
Reply:Originally Posted by mudbugoneI don't find that 220v is any more useful than 110v when welding thin everyday hobby stuff around the shop.... actually I find just the opposite to be the norm. I'm no super weldor by any stretch,but this is just practical everyday usage. Yes...the 110v stick is operating at it's limits running 3/32 rods,but that's not 99% of it's usage for me anyway. I have used it on it's highest setting just to see if it could...it did....would I build a trailer with it out of 3/16" material ... NO!... Would I attach angle iron brackets to a trailer for fenders or lights or racks....positively and without a worry at all.
Reply:Thanks again for all the input, once again mudbugone your explanation seems to really be very spot on with my attitude for what i'm looking for, as does yours kaferhaus.  I agree joedirt1966 as well about duty cycle for 1-2 time use.  I don't plan to be laying big long beads, I think I'd be spending more time preparing and positioning material for each 15 second weld, and if I ever did exceed a duty cycle, no big deal, I'm not on the clock.I did however just stumble upon one unit that is only $30 more than the forney, but seems very promising.  The Longevity Stickweld 140.  It is an inverter, a bit bigger but still plenty portable, can run off 110 or 220.  Does 100amps on 110, and 140 on 220.  Seems awesome since I still have the portability and ease of 110, but am not limited to it, if i need to plug into 220 and get those extra 40 amps I can.I heard about it from a post by someone who was struggling with the Forney (although he was attempting to use 1/8 rod, which is higher than its rated), but stepped up to a bigger inverter and liked it, and that model was listed.  There was a guy who did a seemingly unbiased video comparison of the Longevity 140 vs the HF 80, both on 110 and both on equal settings, and the Longevity did seem to perform considerably better with a steadier arc.  Info on this welder is here http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=50819 and http://www.longevity-inc.com/product...40.php#generalI am just a bit hesitant due to very poor marketing, their site does not work right (click specs, and you get specs for different units but not this one, click warranty and nothing works).  Also their primary product videos are of some random guys homemade, not professional looking at all youtube video of him messing around with it.  That's OK for a personal youtube video, but you'd think the company would have something more professional.  Also from what I can tell, they aren't sold anywhere except the website direct (not sure if that's bad or good), but overall there doesn't seem to be much info on the market, or any reviews that I can find.  The machine appears to be good, but if the company has that low quality of marketing, it makes me wonder about the quality of the product.  What do you guys think?
Reply:I just heard a can of worms being opened!
Reply:Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by joedirt1966I just heard a can of worms being opened!
Reply:I've got a 140amp mig (lincoln) 300 amp mig, Lincoln AC/DC Tombstone, Lincoln R3r-400 (I've never used it, got it in a trade deal) a Miller Bobcat 225G, and 2 Lincoln SA-200's (1968 and 1976 models).  For the most part, which machine I use is determined by what I'm doing.  The ProMig 140 is used mostly for fixing exhaust systems (when you own trucks and equipment, seems like something is constantly getting drug or knocked off)  I did build a porch for my mother in law one time, frame out of 2" pipe and 2"x1/4" strap, which I used the small mig extensively on.  I did have duty cycle problems a couple of times just making welds on the 2" pipe though.  The 300 amp mig, is usually used for dual shield wire, mainly used re-building backhoe and trackhoe buckets.  The Tombstone is used for small repairs and fabrication in the shop.  Anything heavy duty, we use one of the engine drives.  The Bobcat is a decent machine, up to about 1/8" 7018.  It doesn't like running 5/32 uphill much.  I much prefer the Sa-200's to weld with.  The only reason I have the Bobcat on my truck right now instead of one of the Sa-200's is the auxilary A/C power.  I have a plastic fusion machine that requires at least 6500 watts of power to run it.  I would like to go to something like a Vantage 300 for my truck.The reason I said all this, is every machine has its use and place.  Kind of like some people can get by just fine without a torch setup.  I can't.  I used to weld some really thin stuff with one of the SA-200's turned way down, and 3/32" 6010.  I wouldn't choose to do that now days, since I have the Mig machines.  But if I had to, I could do that again.  Where if I just had the mig, I wouldn't try to fix a cracked trackhoe boom, or weld new shanks on a bucket.  It just depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  If you could get by without a machine while you save some money up, I'd highly suggest thinking long and hard about what you might WANT to do in the future with such a machine.  You can't use amps you don't have.
Reply:Can anyone elaborate on this can of worms that has been opened?  By that do you mean longevity is not good?I did a little searching on the web, and the overall opinions of longevity welders did not seem so good, although no solid examples.  I must admit, I am a little nervous about that forney welder also, based on the simple fact that they came out, and got canned so quickly, and liquidated at dirt cheap.  Even though its a brand name, that really worries me why that would happen.  One guy said his forney was defective and ended up getting a chineese welder that worked better, so I'm not necessarily set on brand name, I'd be fine with a no-name as long as its good.I've ordered hundereds of things from china / taiwan / hong kong / harbor freight, etc.  And so far I have been very happy and had no issues 95% of the time.  In fact, many times I've had brand name stuff fail, and chineese stuff last, or simply be better off to begin with.  So I'd say for my personal experience brand name and knock off are on pretty equal ground. Obviously for as expensive and large of a purchase as the welder, I'm still a bit nervous about that 5%.
Reply:I've heard good & bad about Longevity machines and obviously so have you.ONE guy had a problem with a Forney ? What's that tell you.The problem with the Forney line of inverters was more likely COST,not quality. At $300 and up in this economy for something that resembles a toaster they didn't sell so well.The Forney management decided to liquidate inventory. I do however have a big issue with Forney still listing these machines on their website as products for sale.They did give me the Manufacturers phone number when I questioned them about this.The similar 95s machine made by Thermal Arc is in the same price range and last year they were giving them away to bigger machine purchasers...WHY? Probably because they were not selling at $300+ and it made a nice extra to larger machine buyers. I've heard of guys getting them and selling them off or never using them at all....Probably many setting on a shelf in a shop somewhere un-used.If you haven't noticed the way the wind is blowing about these small inverters you're not paying attention....and that's WHY they aren't selling well too.They aren't toys...they just look like toys!Everyone has given their pros/cons and opinions about your original parameters and then you've slid the bar in a different direction. I can't testify to the quality of the Longevity machines... I don't own one. I do own a couple of plasma cutters...one is Italian & one is from China...BOTH function to my satisfaction,but I know if there is an issue I'm on my own because it's probably cheaper to buy another one than hassel with attempting to repair either one by paying shipping both ways to a repair shop plus parts & labor.That's the kicker...You puts your money down & roll the dice when you try to save several hundred bucks. I've been very Lucky in all my machine purchases,but  I did my homework in the first place except for my 1st machine ...the 35A Italian Plasma Cutter... the first one was DOA..the replacement was in primer,but it functioned as required and has for 3-4 years now...I'm satisfied and won't cry if it craps out. The Chinese 50A unit works fine and seems more powerful than the other one. I bought it "just in case" for less than the 1st one because it's both 110/220 V and if it craps out ...so be it...I will survive.Pick your poison...There have been many informed suggestions posted,but it's your money and it will be your problem in the long run if something doesn't work out the way you expected.Good Luck!Last edited by mudbugone; 06-29-2011 at 03:49 PM.
Reply:I don't know about some people here, but dumping 350-600 on a name brand welder is a A LOT of money....considering it's an "entry-line" machine!(store pricing of course)Trust me, I was strapped for cash too, so I know exactly what some of the guys are going threw.I just refused to buy a Junk-box after reading so many Negative reviews.And at least Lincolns, Millers etc, have excellent resell value.You also get a parts diagram, and good warranty, plus you can rebuild them.Lincoln 125HD, yep I'm a big spender.
Reply:Yeah, I did another search for longevity directly on these forums rather than the web in general, and there seemed to be quite a lot of bad things about them, enough that I don't want to risk it.  They do say they have a 5 year warranty, but based on my brief research, that does not necessarily mean they honor it.  Its a shame because it's spec'd quite a bit better than the forney, It might be a very good welder.  But with the utter lack of unbiased info or reviews on that model, and the poor track record on the forums, I don't think I want to take that gamble.  I'm thinking I'm pretty set on the forney, and may order in a few days.I am a fan of chineese products in general, most people lump them into one single "chineese" category, however I feel there are definetly "good chineese" and "bad chineese" products, and differentiating which is which is difficult.  The HF 80 amp welder seems like one of the "good" ones, its just a shame they don't have one with just slightly higher amperage, and I'd likely consider it.