Tig welding pipe at work

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Hey Guys,Just share a few pics. Nothing really special. I made them for speed not beauty. Just a normal day at work. I tig weld most of the time. I prefer tig welding over stick or any other process. I usually cap my welds in position when on jack stands. A lot of welders flip flop the weld. I just like to get done ASAP. Just faster for me. I think i did about 20 welds today. I usually free hand when i put the root in and walk the cup when i cap. On the o-let I always free hand. It allows me to weld hotter and cram more welding wire which is 70 S-6 carbon so I can fill the o-let up quicker. This was a 100% x-ray line and i will go install it tomorrow in the refinery. Oh ! The little spot on the on is just were i tossed it on the concrete. If anybody is interested I wrote a article about [url=]
Tig Pipe Welding
[/url]. It touches on the subject of free hand and walking the cup. Attached ImagesBasic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:looks good! What machine are you using?American by birth Southern by the Grace of God
Reply:WSG:That is some pretty chit!!  From a TIG wannabe. 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I was using this miller 8 bank you see in background. I had to hydro at 1200 PSI then take to x-ray. I seem to have messed my up my link to article. Here it is if anyone cares to read. Tig Pipe Welding Attached ImagesLast edited by WeldingSchoolGuy; 02-09-2009 at 10:02 PM.Basic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:Did you have to fit them up as well? You were humping it to get twenty in a day. Welds look great. I understand why you like TIG, no smoke, sparks, or slag. Pretty clean work. Your work shows you do it alot, nice cap, beautiful work. If your doing twenty x-ray joints a day, you need a raise.Good judgement comes from experience.Experience comes from bad judgement.
Reply:Very Nice Work!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Today I had help from a pipe fitter. Thanks for the compliment on the welding. After a few 10,000 or so I seem to have got the hang of it.Luckily I get paid a decent wage for the Tulsa area. I'm kinda of a freelance welder. No real loyalty to one company. I tend to go where they pay the most.Basic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:WeldingSchoolGuy,Heck I would come grind, fit, and get ya coffee just to learn from you!  Like Craig I am a learning this proceedure  so I can make enough in my own shop to "keep unemployed" (retired)the 25 years I worked in the Elevator trade, I wish I had of helped them fitters more and paid attention to the Tig welders!  YOur work looks great!!!  Either you have a really steady hand or your shakes are really consistant!Thanks for the great contributions for those of us that are 'serious about learning'TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:wow, that is some sweet work! Do you have any shots of your root passes? Also, how did you get your start in pipe welding?
Reply:cup walking seems to be a bit of a ..ummm..elusive way of welding..maybe uncommon is better. those of us that do it are in a trade where pipe and tubing welding is more common than anything else. i do aseptic tig on pipe and tubing for food processing
Reply:how do you boys get the experience to tig pipe? apprenticeships, school, job training?
Reply:so you lay your tacks, root and caps with your tig?   that looks like a weave,,, do you add filler the whole weave or at certain points?  i guess i should go to your website lol
Reply:schott....the same way  you weave stick...move across the middle and pause at the edge to let the puddle fill in.. with tig you get a puddle at the edge and feed it with filler, then move across the center with the torch.. at the other edge same thing, get get some puddle and fill it... it becomes a weave....
Reply:In response to njmm313 : Well in Tulsa it is common industry. Many welders reside in Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana. Tulsa has many fabrication shops that produce pipe work for the entire world. 60 % of Oklahoma's exports come from such manufacturing plants such as pipe shops. I went to Tulsa Welding School (which is a pipe welding school mainly) in 1991 to take tig welding  . I did not have a good experience at the school mainly because of the instructors poor attitude and not a very well thought of curriculum,so I learned mostly on the job. Oh Yeah !! I'll snap some root shots tomorrow and post for you. In response to shott8283 :I'm not for sure exactly what your trying to say but i will take a stab at it.All the welding is tig. The cap is a weave cap. When i cap pipe out in the open and can easily access it I use the so called "walk the cup technique" (commonly used in pipe welding). I burn real hot and I am constantly cramming wire as fast as i can to keep up with heat. These particular pipe welds are on 3" schedule 40 (standard wall pipe). I put my root in with 3/32 70-S-6 wire which is carbon since this is carbon pipe The pipe is fit with maybe 1/16 gap with a sharp edge on the bevel. Nice and tight! On my root I usually run around 140 amps. Pretty hot for 3". Makes me have to move very fast. Employer loves that part. Mostly on 3" I will fill and cap at the same time. Very little room for error when welding this hot on such small pipe. You always need to stay in front of the heat of your pipe. If you let your heat catch up to you it will blow a big hole in the bevel. Explanation below.When welding that hot on this size of pipe it will heat up tremendously fast. The heat will follow you around the pipe. You can stay ahead of the heat of the pipe if you can move fast enough. If you stop welding for a minute or two before you are done the heat on the pipe will catch up to you and that can be very bad when burning this hot. This means no stopping until the weld is done. Running hot allows you to weld fast. Welding on a higher heat allows me to put more volume of solid metal down thus cutting my weld time way down. Employers love that. At one point in my welding career I actually got paid per inch of welded pipe for a few years. Weld pics above are not meant for beauty. I can make a way prettier cap if would turn it down to about 115 amps. They are made for speed because I am at work.That's why I crank it up !I am working on getting a video camera that will show welding up close and start posting video on my site of what i am talking about for people who want to watch. Should be very informative.Later,Welding School GuyLast edited by WeldingSchoolGuy; 02-10-2009 at 11:35 PM.Basic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:I would be curious to see how you walk the cap pass in, I can walk root and hot passes in but am having a hard time seeing how to walk on top of a weave pass like that.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:What is this pipe being used for that requires X-ray inspection on schedule 40?  I guess, if you're dealing with oil that could be spilled in water or something, but everybody starts with sch 80 in that case.
Reply:Hi 76,There are many things that require x-ray on schedule 40. Propane, steam, nafta, crude oil, gasoline, kerosine, sour gas, steam etc.... I think this paticular line is part of a hygrogen line. All can be very dangerous. I would think that this hydrogen line would be very danerous. All I really know about it is that I am pretty sure that it was the worlds second biggest bomb at on time.. Got to go fitter has got a weld ready and typing on this tiny phone keyboard stinks.Talk to you guys later.Basic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:Really awsome man. I really would like to learn this "walk the cup" technique. I never saw it before I came on this board. The old guys at work have never seen anything like it either. Looking forward to your video. This would revolusionize how we go about things at work. Even though we dont focus on pipe welding like this, we get simular jobs on occasion. Besides, always fun learning new methods =)
Reply:Cup walking is pretty straightforward:Rest the rim of the Alumina cup on the base metal and either roll it side-to-side  or rock it in the groove.  Slight pressure from your torch hand will cause the cup to move forward as it moves side-to-side. If you're rolling the cup, keep the tungsten parallel to the root opening.  This technique works best for the cap pass, as the arc length will be constant as you roll across the smooth surface of the last fill pass. The trick with the cap pass is to keep the arc length real short and add enough filler to the puddle that you don't undercut/underfill the toelines of the weld.Rocking back and forth in the groove is good for larger joints.  Rocking naturally changes the angle the tungsten makes with the root opening and helps the puddle to wet into the sidewalls.  It's easier to travel fast when you're rocking side to side in the groove, and you can easily control the size of the ripples in the weld bead .For a root pass, keep the tungsten more or less centered in the root opening.  Don't move it over the bevel, or you'll get a root defect; probably lack of fusion or suckback.  lay the filler in the root opening and walk along the joint, fusion the filler rod into the bevels.  With the right heat and travel speed, you shouldn't even have to move the filler rod, and if you break the arc, it'll remain fused to the root, sticking out from the pipe tangent to the pipe surface.Watch out at 3 and 9 o'clock on the pipe as it's real easy to push too hard and slip the torch off the pipe or push the tungsten into the puddle/filler rod.  It's also easy to push the filler rod into tungsten.    If you experiment with cup walking, you'd figure this out real quick; until you get the hang of things. Originally Posted by SpeenReally awsome man. I really would like to learn this "walk the cup" technique. I never saw it before I came on this board. The old guys at work have never seen anything like it either. Looking forward to your video. This would revolusionize how we go about things at work. Even though we dont focus on pipe welding like this, we get simular jobs on occasion. Besides, always fun learning new methods =)
Reply:Found a vid on youtube ( [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2chtZErrZzg[/ame] ). This is the best source I can find on the subject. I get how it's done by wathcing this but it just seems so alien to me.
Reply:I watched some of the video link you posted.  I don't use exactly the same techniques as the guy in the video. I try to setup so I don't need to move the filler rod.  I use lower heat, more like 85-115 amps, depending on which weld pass(root, hot, cap) I'm working on.  Whereas the guy in the video is talking aobut 140 amps, like the fellow who started this post.  Lower amperage is slower, but it's the way I was taught.  I've never welded where I was paid by the joint; so I might feel different about using more heat if I were.  Speaking of welding at higher amperage, does this cause more difficulty with warping?  I was looking at the O-let welded in the earlier post, and I was thinking the pipe that's welded to might have pulled pretty badly from the size of the weld on the o-let, especially at high amperage.  What's the scoop?But video link speen posted, showing a hot pass with TIG, looks more or less like what I'd expect.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:damn..  never learned that in school....   so your just riding that cup around ...  and your adjusting your stickout of your tungsten so that your weave or "wobble" allows full range of the tungsten to work...welding school guy...  two things...   cant you just tape a #9 lens over a standard camera?and the other...  your going this fast.. but is your pipe moving for you or are you moving around your pipe?
Reply:In response to A_DAB_will_do :Warping was not a issue on the o-let. It was done on jack stands so I weld one half then flop it over and weld the other half which distributes the heat even on both sides. If the o-let was done in position where I was constantly welding uphill the heat will follow to the top of the o-let would possibly warp . For this size of o-let any significant warping or drawing out of level is not a issue for me. Explanation is below.I have noticed threw the years of welding that actually welding hotter and faster will cause less warping than someone running colder. I know it kinda sounds crazy but let me finish.When welding the o-let root I was running about 150 amps. After one hot pass at the same temperature I turned up to 175 amps for one more pass to fill flush. Then capped in one pass. After 4 total passes and around 10 or less minutes the o-let is done. Running that hot does heat the o-let up. But it only heats it up one time without a chance to cool and the process is over. By welding hotter I am able to move faster and able to insert much more metal at one time than someone welding at lets say 100 amps. Welding that cold there is no way to get done that quick and it will ending up taking around 8-12 passes which will heat and cool many times. The weld will probably take 20-30 min. and some welders will stop and let the weld cool. If anything the heating and cooling aspect will cause much more warping than this technique of welding at a high heat.The only way it would draw would be if the o-let was way thicker and bigger round. If it was so big that I had to do 8-12 passes in position at that high heat it would draw some. When I run into this situation I simply fit it 1/4 out of level facing down. Then when it draws up after welding it is level. You really only have to worry about the level on this big of o-lets because at this size they will be welded on much heavier pipe and they will not warp. Biggest o-let I ever welded was 24" o.d. and 18" i.d. 6 inches thick it took me 20hrs and that's the scoop.Speen I have seen this video before. I too use a similar technique to weld horizontal welds. I do feed the the wire threw the bevel in many cases doing horizontal. I never use a 5/32 gap. The norm for most pipe welders is a 5/32 gap and they will use 1/8 wire. This is the way they are taught. I usually use 1/8 gap at most and 3/32 wire all free hand when putting in the root because it allows me to move faster and have more control. On the filler and cap on that size of pipe I will run about 175-190 amps depending what machine I am using.  A lot of times I simply do not have room to walk the cup when I am in tight situations such as being in a pipe wrack where other pipes are near me. But the video does give you a kind of a incite to what i am talking about. Overall very good information.Hey njmm313,Shot a few pics of root listed below. They are not very good pics because the pipe was pressure tested the other day with water and they rusted since then. All the stuff I welded today was in the pipe wrack and they were all tie end welds so I was unable to see them. When I get video camera set up I will show welds from beginning to end. Inside when root is being welded and outside when welding. For now I will just have to take still pics.In response to shott8283 :I have tried using a 10, a cutting shield, a welding blind with no success. I do intend on trying a 10 but I don't think it will produce the results I want. I am looking at some special video cameras that totally block out the light and you will be able to see welding process clearly without  bright light. It involves some kind of laser light that counter acts the uv light. It will work welding, explosions etc... Done some minor research but I will not purchase it for a month or two. It possible could be quite expensive.I am moving fast around the pipe in response to your other question.Hope I touched base with everybody.Later,Welding School Guy Attached ImagesLast edited by WeldingSchoolGuy; 02-11-2009 at 07:45 PM.Basic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:Great lookin consistent welds.  I've goofed off with walking the cup, but never really found a use for that style of welding.  I dont tig up too much heavy pipe.  I do quite a bit of cosmetic welding and that is all free hand.  But for the new guys in the shop that try tig for the first time, I give them this rig.  I've thought about selling it on HSN.  I think it's my ticket out of this recession. Attached ImagesCommon sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Now that I think of it, that would be great for the morning after pool league.  Sure would some some $$ on tungsten.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.weldingschoolguy, thanks for taking the time to share your root pass. It looks great!I'm trying to find another job right now, and a particular job i'm trying to get right now does a lot of pipe, both stick and tig.  I'll more than likely going to buy a harbor freight tig to practice with
Reply:I was watching a youtube video some time back and saw this guy running a root at an incredible speed.  He was running his fill rod though the gap from the other side, just about all the way around the pipe.  Is this a common practice?Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Hi Brainfarth,I would have to watch the video to tell you if it was normal welding or not. Running the wire threw the pipe is a common practice. I started welding on construction jobs in 1990 and have worked around thousands upon thousands of professional pipe and tube welders during this time. I have noticed about 80% practice common techniques(so called normal). The other 20% advanced to another level beyond normal. It is just threw practicing over and over you get to that level after years. It took me probably 8yrs and 10,000 pipe welds to develop into the 20% which is a long time. If I had someone teach me the steps I use today I think I could have leaped into the top 20% in 1-2yrs. The problem was I did not have any person in the top 20% to teach me. The top 20% usually do not become teachers.The benefit to running at a much higher heat than most welders is that you are a much more valuable employee to your employer. If you are welding for a living you will more than likely be in more of a demand than other welders. If that welder was flying around the pipe that would not be a common practice.Later,Welding School GuyBasic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:I received a pm from War Eagle 81 and decided that I would post the public in case someone else might have a similar question. Originally Posted by war eagle 81WSG: I ran across your pics of tig welding and root. when you stated the temp you run at I was  amazed, blown away  a little shocked but that is understandable since I am a student in pipe at a juco in alabama.  this is my final semester and coincidentally I was welding some 5" HW (1" thick, sch?) in the 6 g position today.  still not finished..if I could run a couple of questions by you?... what is the best way to pour in the metal on the HW?  I got it up to 140 with 1/8 tung. 5/32 wire and 17v 150 amp weldcraft aircooled torch. it is taking forever!  also you mentioned the hot root pass with 150 amps on 1/16 land, 3/32 gap. my instuctor says less gap then less metal to put in bevel.  I use loose wire technique you mentioned 1/8 gap, 100 amps, 1/8 wire, 1/64(knock down knife edge).  If your method of high heat is consistant and better I will definitely try that out.   Hope this isn't too much.  I didn't want to add to the thread that was 2 weeks old so I sent this private message.  If in the future you think you might offer some kind of tutoring or charge for advice you sound like you have the knowledge and experience and something to talk about further.  thanks , war eagle , auburn,alabama
Reply:I was just wondering if inspectors ever give you any grief about running so hot? We did some stuff at a paper mill last year and the inspector would only allow one pass at a time then wait till it ( 3 -4 inch stainless) cooled to room temp then next pass.
Reply:Hi Eric,No, I have never had a inspector tell me that. I have made enough welds that I can back up what I do with facts. I have made 10,000 's of pipe welds over the last 20yrs. I feel I know better than them on how I need to weld up a piece of pipe and usually do not get challenged on that particular issue. If some inspector did tell me that I would simple challenge his opinion with what I know to be true. It would probably become a very interesting situation to be in. Kinda fun ! I assume you were welding on schedule 10 stainless in paper mill. I do not run quite as hot on stainless but still way hotter than most.As far as the inspector making you wait for the room temperature thing, he is one of those ahhh ! How can I say this nicely. Idiots. That's stupid. I have watched films about the properties of metal at a certain inter pass temperature and listen to inspectors talk technical jargon many times over and over.Most of time they have no clue on what they are talking about when they do stupid stuff like that. It is just a simple lack of knowledge or too much book knowledge without hands on experience. A lot of times the inspectors who do stupid stuff like that are simply power tripping.*** Warning *** Not responsible for welders loss of job !  LOL !Think I am going to write a article about dealing with inspectors on my site.Welding School GuyBasic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingSchoolGuyHi Eric,No, I have never had a inspector tell me that. I have made enough welds that I can back up what I do with facts. I have made 10,000 's of pipe welds over the last 20yrs. I feel I know better than them on how I need to weld up a piece of pipe and usually do not get challenged on that particular issue. If some inspector did tell me that I would simple challenge his opinion with what I know to be true. It would probably become a very interesting situation to be in. Kinda fun ! I assume you were welding on schedule 10 stainless in paper mill. I do not run quite as hot on stainless but still way hotter than most.As far as the inspector making you wait for the room temperature thing, he is one of those ahhh ! How can I say this nicely. Idiots. That's stupid. I have watched films about the properties of metal at a certain inter pass temperature and listen to inspectors talk technical jargon many times over and over.Most of time they have no clue on what they are talking about when they do stupid stuff like that. It is just a simple lack of knowledge or too much book knowledge without hands on experience. A lot of times the inspectors who do stupid stuff like that are simply power tripping.*** Warning *** Not responsible for welders loss of job !  LOL !Think I am going to write a article about dealing with inspectors on my site.Welding School Guy
Reply:In my limited experience I would have to agree with WSO on the tight gap.   That along with a slightly thicker than normal land usually works best for me, although I walk the root too and probably take a little longer at a lower speed.   I haven't done much pipe, but what I've done has been to certify, and it works.browndogwelding.com@welderassassinMy Blog on The Fabricatorfacebook.com/BrownDogWelding
Reply:Hi wagin,Yes I have worked in a nuclear plant before. It has been many years ago. That did slip my mind. In that situation I definitely did comply with their welding procedures. Even though some of the rules I found to ridiculous I still complied and would also do today if I chose to work in one again. Back then I was no where near the welder I am today and did not run at a high heat as I do now.Last 14 or so years I mostly work in refineries, power plants, chemical plants, shops and sometimes paper mills. Nukes would be a exception to the rule. Any place would be a exception to the rule if I valued that job. Since the economy has slowed down I might actually have to travel at some point to get a good paying job and did think about contacting Atlantic Group who specializes in nukes. I figure it would be kinda like a vacation because when I worked on the one before it was real easy and slow paced.Speaking as to Eric's paper mill experience is quite ridiculous of letting a piece of pipe cool down to room temperature before welding another pass. Let's say he did not wait what would happen? Would tissue or maybe some pulp spill on the floor? I don't think so. Paper mill is quite different than a nuke.I usually get along very well with inspectors. They seem to be happy with my work. Later,Welding School GuyLast edited by WeldingSchoolGuy; 03-14-2009 at 10:46 PM.Basic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:some days i think i would move back to tulsa in a heartbeat. im also a Tulsa welding school grad had a little bit better experience than you. worked in the area for a while before moving to central oregon where having a welding job means doing fences. ever done any work at TEI / Vogt in supulpa? i spent a couple of years their
Reply:Hi quasi,I do have a friend that worked over at TEI for a couple of years.I have worked a ton of other places.Word/Shaw, Pro quip, p2s, JVI etc.... Mostly try to stay in the field. Money is a little better. Plus a little per diem never hurts. A lot of folks do not know there are several double time companies based in Tulsa. Makes it nice to get double time on some jobs instead of time and half.Tulsa is a good town for welding. Got a good site if you are looking for a welding job in Tulsa. Tulsa welding jobsI'm not all down on Tulsa welding school. It was a long time ago when I went there and they have changed owners many times since. It might be the best choice out there for pipe welding these days. I know Tulsa is a great town for pipe welders though. Hopefully bad economy does not hurt the construction industry to bad. I got a couple of buddies working on a shut down in oolagah at the power plant and they are making $35 /hour and $100 day per diem so things are still going descent. Companies do seem to be cutting back on outage times and man power.Later,Welding School GuyBasic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:If I had someone teach me the steps I use today I think I could have leaped into the top 20% in 1-2yrs.
Reply:You make some really good points Speen. Combining the techniques of others to form your own works with everything. Really solid advice. Nothing wrong with being a sponge and soaking up peoples knowledge.Basic and advanced welding information at my online Welding School.
Reply:So true.On a side note, I showed one of the senior welders a video of a guy welding using the "walk the cup" technique. He's a really awsomme guy, immigrated to norway from chile and know's his welding very well, prolly the best overall welder we've got. Anyway, he had never seen this technique before but he liked it very much. He favours high amperage and welding fast (prolly because if you sagged behind in chile you got fired), so this was right up his alley. He has now started training and putting it into practice. Did his first x-ray weld this week, results will be back next week I guess. I didnt get a chance to check root pass with a mirror, but I had a look at the cap and I must say I'm impressed. I'm going to try and get some pictures up next week, along with the x-ray results.