TIG: Air Cooled VS Water Cooled

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What is the "real deal" about air cooled vs water cooled systems for using TIG?Ive discussed going to a water cooler for my rig, and have had numerous salespersons tell me that I neednt worry about it.  My buddy has worked as a pipefitter (code work in nuclear/aerospace/refinery) and has found little to no use for them in some pretty serious circumstances.  He's been an instructor for years as well, but Im genuinely interested in other's viewpoints.Sounds like for the general hobbiest it may be "fluff", but perhaps for someone running 300A+ regularly it would be needed.Help get me educated!ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:In short, you can get it done with aircooled all the way to 300 amps with the newer aircooled torches, but not in comfort over 150 for any length of time.  I have used the high amp aircooled torches and they work, but put out some serious btu's.  It's just hard to use them with thin tig gloves for more than a couple of minutes at a time...even though your torch may be 100% duty...your hands get overheated pretty quickly.  The only way I have been able to make long tig welds with an aircooled torch is to use big heavy welding gloves.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Water cooled torches are physical smaller than the equivilent amp air cooled torch.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:If your using your machine for extended periods of time on a regular basis then your probably feeling the need (in your hand) for a cooler. The machine you have is very portable and the cooler (coolmate 3) is close to ten times the size of your machine so I guess you would leave it behind when working in the field. I think you want one or you wouldn't be asking questions so just do it already!Dynasty 300 DX TigRunner, Weldcraft Crafter Series 310
Reply:Theyre that big?  Crud, I think the 5 gallon reservoir bucket, an AT cooler, and a HV pool pump would do the job (and could all be stored inside the 5g bucket along with the hoses).My only reasoning in looking is because Ive gotten frost nipped/biten one too many times making my hands sensitive to heat.  Im just starting out so I doubt I "need" it.Then again...do any of us "need" most of this stuff?ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:There's lots of options in coolers...   and certainly if you're only cooling one torch, you don't need the Coolmate 3.  You can also hook up to city water, or get a smaller, 2 gallon cooler...  or build your own.Here's an article that may be of interest:"A Tale of Two welders: users share tips for upgrading to a water cooled GTAW system"http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWeld...le.cfm?ID=1275Hope that helps.-----------------------Carmen Electrodewww.CarmenElectrode.comand the boss blogs at  www.JoeWelder.comall powered by  www.Arc-Zone.com
Reply:Thanks Carmen!  So, would I be looking for a 250A?  Im not seeing any 200's.Think I'll be using the garden hose for awhile since the faucet is about 10 ft away and I've got other toys to buy for now.ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:I did the garden hose for a while but then old man winter showed up. Then I ran a water line from indoors. It just seemed wrong, hook up a 5,000. welder to a garden hose? I don't think so. So I paid the 400.00 for the coolmate 3. I couldn't be happier.Dynasty 300 DX TigRunner, Weldcraft Crafter Series 310
Reply:What about aluminum TIG? Does'nt the cleaning process really heat things up.It sure seemed that way when I used mine on aluminum. After that I boughta water cooled torch.PowerMig 255cCutmaster 51Powermax 1000 (for cnc table)Precision TIG 185 for salePrecision TIG 225
Reply:The heat comes from the fact the aluminum conducts heat more efficiently than steel.  That's why you need more amps for a given thickness of material.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:I have a lot more problem with the heat from the piece really blasting my filler rod hand by the end of a bead (say when doing aluminum). I can't imagine how zap gets by with no filler hand glove - mine is usually just-not-quite on fire !- JohnOh yeah for me, a hobbiest just screwing around, I'm glad I don't have to mess with a water torch, the air torch is more than fine.
Reply:We are running both air-cooled and water-cooled torches in the welding lab.  The air-cooled 150 amp torches are on 200 amp Dynastys and the water-cooled have 250 amp torches on 300 and 350 power supplies.  The air- cooled torches and connected cable/hose are definitely a lot lighter and I have not had any problems with the torches unless the students forget to turn the gas on.  The water-cooled torches are a lot heavier, not just because of the size, but the additional plumbing adds a lot of weight.  We did experience a lot of leaks as when I first took over the shop they had the water-cooled torches plumbed to the city culinary water system at full pressure and that added to the leak problem.  I replumbed the system with restrictor orifices (from Mc Master Carr) to get the pressure down on the inflow side, safety wire clamped all the connections and wired the outflow open and that eliminated most of the leakage.  We still get leaks once in a while.  I have started to buy replacement torches....  they are all air cooled.  We seldom see over 150-180 amps as most of their practice is done on thinner gages.  I also worry about the mineral salts from the culinary system plateing out inside the torches, but to date that does not seem to be a problem.  All that said... if I was welding at high current all day long I would probubly accept the extra weight of a water-cooled torch.  Shorter durations at lower currents I stick with the air- cooled.  I'm starting my street rod frame at .120 and .180, we shall see how I feel after that   JimAnd a big thanks Carmen!  That is a great resource.  I googled and found some other home built systems too.Last edited by Jim Riley; 02-09-2007 at 11:38 AM.
Reply:Thanks Jim.  Good beta going on this thread.ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:Originally Posted by Jim Riley.... We did experience a lot of leaks as when I first took over the shop they had the water-cooled torches plumbed to the city culinary water system at full pressure and that added to the leak problem....And a big thanks Carmen!  That is a great resource.  I googled and found some other home built systems too.
Reply:I can't imagine how zap gets by with no filler hand glove - mine is usually just-not-quite on fire !
Reply:I think besides practice the ol' Zapster has no nerves left in his fingers.I have friends who are professional chef's, and they think nothing of sticking their bare hand into a pot of boiling water to grab a piece of pasta to check if its done.Same basic concept- after a while, you get used to it, and your hand doesnt feel the heat- but some of that has gotta be physical as well.Call me a wimp, call me a wuss- but when the glove is smoking, I am glad its the glove, and not my hand.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterIt's like anything else..Practice Practice Practice..(and I get the filler down to 3/4")  ...zap!
Reply:I have a water-cooled torch and I've also welded with air-cooled ones. I fnd the water-cooled version much more comfortable even though I typically don't weld for long periods of time. I agree that gloves are a good idea......also long-sleeved shirts and solid shoes with good trousers (no holes). If you can manage one, I think you would like the water-cooled version.The torches are also smaller and lighter for the same amperage rating. I run five gallons of water to one gallon of GM Dex-cool automotive coolant and I don't get any algae. It works great and last for a long time.In fact, I get excited just thnking about my water-cooled setup!  Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Trousers?I gotta wear Pants now?What are you guys, safety nazi's?I tig weld sometimes wearing my Utilikilt, with no problems. Its air cooled.
Reply:You may escape the heat but you can't avoid the radiation even only on your hands ,long exposure may lead to a development of skin problems or even Malenoma at advanced age, no matter how uncomfortable it may seem it is a must to put protection gloves on GTAW
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterTrust me..I should have been dead by now 3 times over.. And not from welding.. ...zap!