thawing frozen water pipes with arc welder

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In this copy of The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding (12th ed. 1973) that I just bought there is a section on using an arc welder to thaw frozen pipes. Now I can't imagine that this is a practice that Lincoln would be wanting to promote today in these litigious times; in fact they must be freaking out that there are still these old copies of the handbook out there with a how-to on burning your house down with a Lincoln HD Tombstone.The thought of Joe Handyman frying a household full of electronics does bring a warm feeling to mind, though.A man who can't weld is as poorly educated as a woman who can't sew
Reply:I have read about machines plumbers use that run high current through the length of a frozen section of pipe to generate heat.  So I imagine a welder could accomplish the same thing.  Seems like there would be some spark potential if not done right!Mike
Reply:The guidelines have cautions.  Resistance heating has been around a long time.  I doubt it is as risky and heating your pipes with an open flame.  From talking to old timers the standard comment is to not rush the process with exceedingly high amperages in a rush to thaw the pipe and constantly monitor the status of connections and the pipe itself.  You can easily melt soldered connections if there is no water in the pipe.  It will not start a fire but makes things exciting when the water starts to flow again.  I can never understand the American system.  In Canada you have to pay your own lawyer as well as your opponent's if you lose.  Often you also have to pay for general court costs involved if the judge feels you were wasting his time.  Before you start a lawsuit you need to have all your ducks in a row or you could be paying off legal fees for the rest of your life.
Reply:reminds me of those electric floor heaters which run large elements under concrete. they are awesome, but i cant imagine how much electricity they use.
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechman  I can never understand the American system.  In Canada you have to pay your own lawyer as well as your opponent's if you lose.  Often you also have to pay for general court costs involved if the judge feels you were wasting his time.  Before you start a lawsuit you need to have all your ducks in a row or you could be paying off legal fees for the rest of your life.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldordieThis shows that American lawyers are smarter than those practicing in Canada.  Here in America the more people paying lawyers' fees the better... for the lawyers.
Reply:The problem with Americas Civil Legal Process is that there is no preliminary function to control frivolous lawsuits from entering the system.The problem with Americas Criminal Legal Process is that criminals are ralely sentenced to the maximum punishment. For example a person was recently found guilty of child molestaion and was given community service. That is BU11$H!T. You touch my daughter and you'll be lucky to make it to trial. I dont mind going back to prison.  I have never been to prision......but you get my pointLast edited by GWallace; 01-19-2007 at 12:32 PM.Grant
Reply:>>>>The problem with Americas Civil Legal Process is that there is no preliminary function to control frivolous lawsuits from entering the system.>>>The problem with Americas Criminal Legal Process is that criminals are ralely sentenced to the maximum punishment. For example a person was recently found guilty of child molestaion and was given community service. That is BU11$H!T. You touch my daughter and you'll be lucky to make it to trial. I dont mind going back to prison.  <<<<Right!  Let 'em out to get them back on the street to molest, again.  Then they can hire lawyers to argue for them, once more.  Who gains the most benefit from this circular system?  The lawyers.  If there was a one-strike rule of law to put child molesters away for good, the lawyers would lose the ability of being able to repeatedly represent these creeps.
Reply:Apparently Lincoln hasn't had any legal problems caused by this practice.  I just received a new copy of The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding, 14th edition, to replace the one I gave to my son.  Section 13.8, Thawing Frozen Pipes, is still included.  By the way, this hardback book is about 400 pages long and only costs $25 + S&H direct from Lincoln.  Starts with history of welding, metallurgy, different types of welding and welding equipment, techniques, weld testing, welder qualification tests, and welding safety. Some of the welding design information may be overkill for new welders, but the answers to a lot of questions I see posted here are in this book.TeddCoHTP Microcut 400 & Invertig 160DC  Smith Dual Guard MD-510 OA Rig  Lincoln SP135+  Hobart Stickmate LX 235/160
Reply:Lincoln actully made a welder in the early to mid 70s for this process. And the funny thing is it was called the linc thaw
Reply:I have thawed many pipes with my old G7 welder.  Its EA$Y money.  Hook up the machine, set it on about 75% of rated capacity and wait.  Collect your rate weather the pipe opens up or not.  If after 5 or 6 hours, it doesn't run, the pipe must be broken.   Nice winter work.  One end to the fire hydrent or the water shut off going to the house. and the other to near the meter.  I sometimes unhook the water meter so electricity can't go where it shouldn't.  This was great money when I was in college.  I think my new Ranger 250 sez don't thaw pipes with it.    David
Reply:I'm from Las Vegas, so have never done this.  (What's a frozen pipe?)But I've got a friend here from the northern US and he made a good business thawing dozens of home's pipes everyday.  As said, you get paid whether it flows again or just proves that the pipe is broken.But, ONCE, the homeowner forgot to tell him that he'd had a break a few years before and a section was replaced with plastic.  They found out when the NEIGHBOR'S electrical meter melted, because of the path that the electricity was forced to find, especially since it was common practice to disconnect the water meter.Galvanized steel pipes worked the best, they generate a lot of resistance because of the mottling in the galvanizing.  Cast iron was good, too.  Copper pipes were the worst.  A 400A machine took a while to warm a 3/4 copper pipe; it's just too good a conductor.The biggest pipe he ever did was a 10" cast iron pipe.  They paralleled three machines and had 1200A running through it for a half-hour.  The neighborhood paid handsomely and was much relieved to find the pipe didn't break.
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702I'm from Las Vegas, so have never done this.  (What's a frozen pipe?)But, ONCE, the homeowner forgot to tell him that he'd had a break a few years before and a section was replaced with plastic.  They found out when the NEIGHBOR'S electrical meter melted, because of the path that the electricity was forced to find, especially since it was common practice to disconnect the water meter.
Reply:My Weldanpower cautions to use A\C only.  And touts its 100% duty cycle capabilities.  It worked well on the one 3\4" galvanized water pipe I used it on many years ago.I had my doubts it would work.  This engine driven Lincoln has a feature where the stinger goes dead if you weld your rod to the workpiece.  Short circuit protection, I guess.  Well, I thought the water pipe was a direct short too.  Apparently there is enough resistance in the frozen pipe to evercome this safety feature.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!