Problems Tigging Aluminum, HELP

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I'm trying to weld a new handle on an old 5 Gal Aluminum Coffee Pot... new handle is 2024 and I can get my rod to flow into the handle, but I'l be danged if I can get any bonding what so ever on the pot. I have cleaned the metal well, used Stainless brush and even some acetone to make sure things are clean but no joy. I have arced the pot enough that I would have thought I would have burned a hole in the pot, but still cannot make a bond to the pot.  Anyone have any ideas to help?Walt
Reply:Funny. I was in an aluminum canoe this weekend contemplating tig welding on it.I was looking at the weird oxidation and water staining. I assume that a coffee pot might be the same way even if on the outside. I think preparation is going to be your key. You should use acetone prior to SS wire brushing. Otherwise you are just brushing crap into the aluminum. On my pontoon boat I had to use an acid solution to remove the water stains as acetone didn't do it. I am going to keep an eye on this thread to see what your results are and for other members suggestions. I want to learn too!!!!Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:I even brushed while it was wet and used the acetone to try to wash anything off...that was no help eitherWalt
Reply:I can't help with the coffee pot, but I welded two canoes.  They are thin and a bitch to weld.   Once you get enough heat and cleaning going on, you almost got a hole.  Cleaning with a powered wire wheel helped a LOT.I used 5356.  Weather it was the right or wrong rod, I don't know.  I think 4043 would have not taken the flex as well.  Both still float.....I'm thinking the pot is sucking up your heat and the handle is not.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:It is a large pot, but I wouldn't think I wouldn't be able to get it hot enough compared to the 3/8" rod I used for a handle...but I could be wrong ( very possibly am, what I know about tigging aluminum is zilch )  I may have to go to backup plan of riveting the handle on, but then I would be worrying about leakageWalt
Reply:5356 was MOST likely the correct filler. 5052 is used for aluminum watercraft often and the 5356 would be the filler for that in MOST cases of watercraft. 4043 is acceptable as a filler on 5052 as well, but as a third choice.The one I was in had epoxy on one crack, so I say ANY filler can be used apparently.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Are you sure the coffee pot is aluminum and not stainless?
Reply:yes, most definatly it is aluminum
Reply:2xxx is copper-aluminum alloy and isnt easily weldable.  Its typically used in aerospace which is odd that it wound up in your coffee pot, how do you know its 2024?Other than that, I cant help you any but thats what your working with.Last edited by sn0border88; 04-28-2009 at 12:35 PM.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Did you get a puddle on the pot?  If not, MORE HEAT  Handle is 2024, pot is unknown.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:alcova,I think you answered your own question."what I know about tig welding aluminum is zilch"Probably, if you could find an experienced tigger in your area, he'd be happy to help you out.  Not sure an internet message board is going to "teach" you how to do this repair.4043 is probably your best choice of readily available filler.  5356 will not like the heat the pot will likely be subjected to.Doesn't sound like you've gotten the pot itself clean enough to tig weld.  Acid solution, good rinse, acetone, SS brush may be the steps to use.Have you been able to establish a puddle at all on the pot material.  That's the first step.  Then it comes down to managing the heat between the two pieces (thin material-pot, heavy material-handle).  Balancing act of where to apply the proper heat.  This is where the lack of experience with tig welding aluminum is going to jump up and bite you.  Too hot on the pot=hole in pot.  Too cold on the pot=no puddle=no weld.If you'd post up a location, there may be an experienced guy in the area who could help out.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Went back and reread the original post.Wyoming is a big state.You guys must take your coffee serious.  5 gal pot.Welding a small handle (3/8" diameter) to a pot this size seems to be asking for trouble.  Unless I'm missing something, we're talking about 2 3/8" beads supporting a handle being used to lift a 40# pot.  The point loading on the pot is going to be substantial.  Not sure that thin aluminum will take that kind of stress.Maybe a better solution would be to weld tabs (1"x2"x1/8" for instance) to the handle, and then braze/silver solder the "handle assembly" to the pot itself.  The tabs would serve to spread the load.Just a thought.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Is the Pot anodized?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:The handle material is 2024?2024 is an 'aircraft-grade' heat treatable aluminum alloy that is HIGH in copper (aluminum copper magnesium alloy mostly).   It is listed as marginal as to weldability, Alcoa lists 7075 as worse for weldability.  In bar stock form it would be commonly used for screw machine parts.  Poor corrosion resistance, low formability, poor brazability, probably not the right material choice there.  But it machines well and is a high strength aluminum alloy.  Add in an unknown alloy for the pot ...  Walt, not every aluminum alloy is weldable.  Many are not.Big real aluminum rivets just may be the answer.  Real aluminum rivets like on some decent cookware, not pop-rivets.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:OOPS Got to thinking about it today and checked once I was off work...remnants of the handle are still riveted in place and turns out that they are stainless.  The pot was all black with campfire soot and we had to wire wheel all the soot off and it all looked about the same when we got it cleaned up.  Tonight I drug a knife point across the remains and it slid like it will on steel, but was a lot more drag on the pot itself when I tried the pot...so it's now time to try and find some round Stainless RodThanks Everyone
Reply:Walt,The handle might have been stainless even on an aluminum pot.If there are stainless handle remnants still firmly attached to the pot, you could TIG a new stainless handle to those remnants.If you want to totally replace the handle, then rivets could be used again.If you want to weld to the pot itself, use the right filler and handle material to match and/or be compatible with what you are welding to.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Pictures may have helped DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:a magnet will tell you a bunch.
Reply:Originally Posted by boatbuoya magnet will tell you a bunch.
Reply:step 1. Find a bent branchstep 2. Cut it as long as your fiststep 3. Screw it to the pot-caution-screwheads go on the inside-branch handle goes on the outside.
Reply:Identifying your materials is first and not always easy on repair projects, especially older (used) ones. Maybe some members have methods to offer up on that note. Preparation is the next big consideration and cleaning is foremost, particularly with non-ferous materials.That being said there are two types of cleaning to adress, mechanical (to remove exsisting oxides which may or may not be seen by the eye) and chemical (to remove oil, grease or other possible contaminants). Mechanical cleaning such as a grinder or file will remove actual material so caution must be used on thinner sections. Even still with something from the kitchen that is heated again and again contaminants can actually penetrate the material itself making welding difficult even after proper cleaning.maniak
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88?I might be missing something here, but how does a magnet help differentiate between SS/alum or different series of aluminum.
Reply:I thought about welding a new stainless handle to the old remnants, but am afraid the aluminum rivets would melt out from heat needed, so today I picked up some stainless rod and will bend up a new handle and rivet in on as was originally done.thanks for your replys that made me go back and relook at thingsWalt