Scored a Manual

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YES!!!!Got a good one offa Fleabay finally!!  Be here mid weekLooks like someone gets to make some parts  Now that I know what's missing, it's smooth sailing from here on inMight even be able to cobble together a version of the original steel wheels if I can scale the size from the drawings, and make lift height comparisons (MAYBE)It just doesn't get any better than this Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I'd say you were very,very lucky to have found that manual so quickly. Good Luck on the project.
Reply:Looks like a fun and slightly challenging project Sam.  Should keep you and Clarence out of the house and busy in the 'shop' for awhile.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Those are smooth plowing machines.  Depending on the setup, they can work a tractor to death.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:From what I understand disc angle is the determining factor.  Too steep, and it's a rough pull.  Too straight, and it doesn't do a good job.  I suppose it's a compromise.  Depends on soil type tooWhen I picked up the disc after the auction, the old man that owned it said it pulled good behind an 84 horse MM.  But the soil up along the Kansas Oklahoma border seems to have less clay than here.I have some sections of the fields that pull like thru water, and others that just about stand the tractor up when plowing.I sure hope I don't have to reset this thing as I change conditions.  I think it may just fail to fully penetrate the stiffer ground.  Dunno"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Either way, something has to be done.  I've lost an entire week to the rain.  I can't get out to the "shop""Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Discs are good for a lot of applications, but one thing they have found from studying soil compactiion issues, is that discs are the worst offenders when it comes to compaction.  A good subsoil or bottom plow every second or third year  (it is recommended to alternate subsoil and bottom plowing each time)will help to relieve the compaction issues.  Around here, depending on the crop, we actually bottom plow about every season to bury the trash under the soil rather than mixing it on the top.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Not sure what you mean by a bottom plow.  Are you referring to a moldboard plow?Both the disc and moldboard add to compaction from what I understand.  The disc supposedly less.Brillion, and others are making machines with a front mounted disc gang, followed by chisels to break the pan, and some have a rear disc gang to mix/cover.  Takes a lot of hp to pull them thoughI don't know diddly about no till, but I'll just bet there's some compaction just from tire traffic too.I guess a good subsoiling once in a while is the answer"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hey Lugweld,  I gotta get outta here real fast.  I'm gonna go into town and bring back some Subway.There's a guy up on 33 that moldboarded just before the rains hit.  He's washin' pretty bad.  I 'll take pics on the way out.  It'll give a good illustration of a plowpan, and how it prevents good internal drainage.  I hope it's still floodin' like it was yesterday, be a good example.Later man"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Moldboard plows will create the worst plow pan but soil compaction is caused by any traffic on a field.. Samm's clay will give a very good indicator of the plow pan as he should be able to see a grey color in the clay showing where the pan is. This is the area that water stops or slows dramatically and thus leaves the mineral deposits. A shank (subsoiler) will break through once this condition is found. I would really like to see this disc work.
Reply:Now find me a munual for a '59 Minnie Mo backhoeDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Tozzi.... I think you might find one at ssbtractor.  I'll check later after I post some field pics.  Also another site dedicated to ag/equipment manuals agcon or something like that.  I'll check it out.  I remember seeing Mighty Mo or something like that."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Ok Lugweld..........  Here's the pics.This is a field around maybe 3mi from the house.  Not my placeThe field was moldboarded approx 3 days before the rains after laying fallow all Winter.  We maybe had no more than 3 inches of rain this Winter.  So the soil profile should have been pretty dry when this was plowed.I was hoping for the river that was there the other day, but it's gone down.Pic One is the most dramatic picture of poor drainage.  Notice how the high ground is light colored?  All the goodies are gone from that ground.  The darker low lying areas are where the goodies went.  And that ground is slowly washing down the creek as we speakPic Two is the low lying ground closeup.  See the light color.  It's badly washed ground also.  But shows darker in an overall field pic.Pic Three is how our soil breaks up when plowed.  Notice that it is still in chunks after a weeks worth of rain.  It doesn't break up into fines when plowed, it comes up in slabs.  He will literally have to finish disc this ground when it's dry on the top plow layer despite the fact that the ground is still wet underneath.  It's the only way to break the slabs up.  Even cultipackers don't work well on this stuff because it rolls around like marbles under the rollers.Pic Four is what's left of a river that was about 80-100 feet wide during a heavier rain day.  It's ground that's washing down the creeks, and into the barrow ditch in the foreground.I would imagine that the change in elevation from top to bottom of the field is maybe 8-10 feet over the entire field.My place is pretty hilly, and a good deal of the land that's under the plow is terraced.  I'll take pics when I finally get into the field.Another thing I went to years ago was not farming the actual dam on the terraces.  I leave them in weeds.  It keeps the terrace dam from washing down.  You lose some acres, but it beats losing all the topsoil.  I imagine that the difference in elevation on my place might be near 40-50 feet on the Western side. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Found Big Mo only at www.ssbtractor.com"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Big Mo  Now ain't that a name"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm,According to all of my ag training and every book I can find, personal experience etc...The "mold board" or commonly known as bottom plow actually relieves compaction that is done by the discs...Why?  The plow goes deeper than the disk harrow, and due to its pointed shape and slight downward thrust shatters the hard pan.  However,  a hard pan will always form under wherever the common tillage depth is.   That is the reason for alternating with a subsoiler every so often.   The reason the "bricks are laying on top of the ground like that is that it is the actual hardpan being brought to the surface.  Click through this farm.  It is the one I used to manage...the commercial produce side anyway.  But that soil is bottom plowed every year with rotating subsoiling.  http://seagr.com/index.htmlEsab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Ok Lugweld...........  Here we go man.  A quick cover of the operation hereOf the 400 acres total, 80 acres is under the plow more or less, depending on the year, and what I need for feed.  I like to have an overstock, then I run it down.  Used to sell it, but now all I do is feed it.  Nother story about inadequate pasture, but that's for another day.It's a pretty small operationNever plant less than 20 acres, and usually do the full 80.I run 100hp equipment.  Drawbar horses like they used to rate it at the Nebraska trials.  I don't know how they're rated on modern equipment.  Both diesels are in the 300cid range.  Oliver is an air breather, and the Allis is turbocharged.I do clean till.  Plow down in Fall/Winter weather allowing, followed by once over with a tandem disc harrow in the Spring, fertilizer application, once over with disc harrow to incorporate fertilizer, springtooth, then drill it.  It's really old school farming.It's basically deep tillage.  All crop residue is buried.By deep tillage, I mean deep tillage for this area.  While my soil profile is around 80" deep in places, the subsoil starts at a much shallower depth.  I think around 12" or so, maybe more.  We have very thin top soil here.  This land was cottoned all thru the 30's.  Topsoil being defined for this discussion as the layer which has organic matter present.  I generally plow to a depth of around 8",  There's no point in plowing deeper, and mixing subsoil with the topsoil.  It's not good.  Again, that depends on the area in the field.  The plow will want to go deeper in better areas of ground.  I don't have automatic draft control, so it's a matter of sensing the draft, and using the sector for the 3pt.  That, and taking a look over your shoulder once in a while  I run a semi mounted plow, so depth control is sometimes a hassle over irregular ground.  The guage wheel isn't always on the ground if you're coming down off of a rise.  And you have to drop it when climbing a slight rise.I use a two way rollover plow which is excellent for hilly ground.  You plow across the hill, and throw the ground up the hill.  It's also excellent for terraced ground.  Plus, you don't have to go around in circles, 'course going back and forth gets pretty tedious too  Nice not to have an open furrow too.Now, let's get to compaction.  The greater the angle of attack with a tillage tool, the greater the compaction.  A plow has a very severe angle of attack, as it cuts and lifts ground.  It depends on suction to keep it in the ground.  Greater suction means greater pressure on the plow bottoms(plow shares).  Think of it as a knife being drawn sideways thru the ground.  Sometimes when you get a chance, look at the cut left by a dozer.  It's shiny, and hard.  Same deal.  The curve on a dozer blade is designed to apply moldboard action to keep it in the soil.Suction is downward pressure to keep the implement in the ground.  Anything below the cutting edge is subject to huge amounts of pressure.  While I usually like to state everything in terms of "I've heard, I think, I guess" on the net, I need to, for this discussion state that "I know".  Period.The word "plowpan" comes from the bad tendancy of a moldboard plow to create a hard impeneterable layer below the surface.  A disc is only slightly better.Look at the sequence of making a suitable seedbed.  From rough tillage to final springtoothing, each pass firms up the ground.  Each implement further compacts the ground.  Plowed ground is like driving in a deep sea of marbles, and springtoothed ground is firm enough to drive a pickup on.  It also allows a drill to place seed at the perfect depth without pressing it too far down.  I use a hoe drill by the way.  I prefer it to a disc drill.  I can plant down to moisture.A good thing to read is at http://pss.okstate.edu/publications/...SS-2244web.pdf   The plow mentioned is a chisel plow, not a moldboard plow.Pics of my primary tillage tool  One acre per hour at 3 1/2 mph in this ground, and that's flyin' reallyCool discussionAND THERE'S WELDING IN IT IF ANYONE PICKS UP ON THE REPAIR TO THE MOLDBOARD ON THE PLOW. Attached ImagesLast edited by farmersamm; 05-03-2009 at 12:56 AM.Reason: wrong word. ought to proof before posting LOL"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hey, my link worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/