New welder + practice pics

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I got a new toy. Millermatic 212.  I've been held up from using it because I couldn't find extension cord parts in my small town. So today I hooked it up and practiced on a small project that didn't need to be quality. I just used some random scraps to make a stand to hold my wifes motocycle up w/out the kickstand. Well, let me have it, good, bad, or whatever.How can you tell good penitration?How can you tell good shielding?I think on some of my welds I went too slow. the bead piled up high.
Reply:Penetration seems a bit lacking but overall I think with some practice and tinkering with settings and travel speed you should have it down in no time.  Doesn't look bad at all really.  Looks like your wire speed is too fast.  In the beginning of the weld you can see the ripples are drawn out and extended.  That is an indicator you are moving too fast.  However the weld is piled up in that spot which makes me think maybe wire speed is too fast.For that application that should hold up forever!
Reply:Looks good, turn heat up alittle and less wire speed.Clarke 130EN C25Lincoln 225 AC Stick(1968)Smith O/A RigHF 4X6 Red BandsawBlack & Decker Pro Chopsaw16 Speed Drill PressSpeedglas XL HelmetHarbor Freight Stuff
Reply:If you're dragging the nozzle with solid you need to be pushing the nozzle in the direction of travel.  Like the other guys said little more heat less wire.  The weld that is in the vertical position looks the best.  Keep playing with it you'll get it.  Nice looking Machine you lucky dog.  LOLLarryMTry not use $10.00 worth of time on $.10 job!!Miller Bobcat
Reply:Push or forehand makes for less penatration and a flatter bead.  Pull or drag gives more penetration and a taller bead.  Start out perpindicular to the work and vary each way to see what it does. Those are great for first welds with a new machine.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Btw, Was that a vertical down weld I see in those pics?  How thick is that material?  Anything thicker than 1/8" should be welded vertical up for proper penetration and puddle control.  Vertical down is ok for 1/8" and thinner.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RPush or forehand makes for less penatration and a flatter bead.  Pull or drag gives more penetration and a taller bead.  Start out perpindicular to the work and vary each way to see what it does. Those are great for first welds with a new machine.David
Reply:Originally Posted by crawlerI thought pushing a weld resulted in better penetration since you're on the leading edge of the weld puddle..... Can you explain why pulling give better penetration?
Reply:The angle iron is 5/32 and the bars are 3/4. All of the welds were done horizontaly. Yeah, this was my first time MIG welding. I've never even seen anyone do it before. I never imagined it being this eazy. I tried to clean up the areas to be welded with a grinder but I noticed what appears to be burnt paint that rose to the top of the welds. Do you guys think that's what it is and if so does it effect the weld quality enough to care? Thanks a lot for the advise, I need as much as possible. I'm going to run some more beads today to see if I can apply my new knowledge. I'll take more pics.
Reply:I would say welderboy pretty much hit the push or drag thing.Try a little more heat.  Heat is wire speed.  Wire speed is amps.  Adjust volts to make for a nice smooth weld.  Should sound smooth and even probably like what it did the first time.  Does your welder have a recomended setting inside the door?  They are usually pretty colse on a brand name machine.The stuff on top of your weld is just slag.  It results from heating the metal and wire.  The slag should and does float to the top.  It can be brushed or chipped off.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:These welds felt awkward because I had nothing to steady my hand on. They seem to have good penitration though. I never know how wide to make my zig zag pattern. The cup is 1/8" and the plate is 3/16". For some reason my camera isn't focusing enough to see this well but the metal flaked a little on the back side of a weld, what does that mean? The welder does have a chart with heat and wire speed settings. I figured it would be close, I'll just have to slow the wire down a little. And I did for these welds.So the slower the wire speed, the hotter it is? For these welds today I set the voltage higher and the wire speed lower. It didn't seem like it wanted to burn thru but it definitly melted a nice puddle.How far should I keep the nozzle from the weld?Here you go.I didn't take any pictures of this before I cleaned w/grinder or painted. The welds weren't pretty but they seemed strong. I lowered the wifes bike 1.5" and needed to rework the kickstand. I cut 1.5" off the bottom then welded a custom plate in. turned out nice.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyWhen you are on the leading edge and pushing it pushes the puddle out and away in all directions resulting in a more spread out weld with less penetration.  When you pull you are pushing that wire into the molten puddle that is already created and deep into the base metal.  A lot more heat is being put into the metal and it forces the filler material into the base metal since wire is being forced into hot metal instead of cold metal.  Make sense?
Reply:if it makes you feel any better, these are my first welds
Reply:Blueballler, that looks pretty good. Stickout from the tip can be from 1/8-1/2" depending on position, gas , amps, etc. What you have looks good, so go with it. The layer that popped off the back of the metal was likely just scale. Stuff that's on the steel, it forms with the manufacturing process on some steels. It is nothing to worry about having a chip of it come off.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by blueballerSo the slower the wire speed, the hotter it is? For these welds today I set the voltage higher and the wire speed lower. It didn't seem like it wanted to burn thru but it definitly melted a nice puddle.
Reply:Heat is watts -- volts times amps.Wire speed is amps.  Volts is, well, volts.  Turning up either will produce more heat (within limits).Favorite right now is a Miller Syncro 200.Tons of tools and I blame at least one of them when things don't go right.
Reply:You running 75/25?DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Every vendor has tutorials on welding whether it's stick or wire. A lot of it is free, which makes it nice. Here is a little something from hobart that depicts the various types of bead profile one can get with differing techniques. It's better than some because it's not only in color but a nice clear image.  Depth of fusion isn't always a better worse scenario. Often it's a matter of what it is you are trying to accomplish. http://www.hobartwelders.com/pdfs/MIG_Welding_Tips.pdf
Reply:Thanks guys. I'm using .035 wire. The biggest reason I need you're help is because I have a big project coming up. I need a strong weld. haven't made up my mind if I want someone else to weld this project for me. I'm lowering my truck on airbags and need to weld a notch on the frame. The notch requires that I completely cut out a portion of my frame so the quality of the welds is important. I hope that with guidance from experts on this forum I will be able to do it myself. I guess it depends on the feedback I get. So far it seems like I should be able to with some more practice of corse. Thanks again!!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzzYou running 75/25?
Reply:Originally Posted by blueballer??? Not sure. While I was doing my research I made a mental note to ask when getting a tank but in the heat of the moment I fogot. The salesman asked what I was going to be welding and probably made that decision for me. I'll look in to that. Maybe it's on my recept.Just looked and nope, not on there. Is it worth calling them to ask? Do my welds look weird or are you just curious?
Reply:More good info here. http://www.millerwelds.com/education...tips/MIG_tips/
Reply:Your getting a bunch of great info here.  Heres another to add to the long list, stick out.. the closer your nozzle is to the weld, the higher the amps.  If your running a bit hot (try to keep the nozzle about 1/4 inch from the weld) you can pull the torch back a bit to lower the amps.  Very nice welds for starting out.  That round t joint free hand is not easy no matter how you slice it (you could use something to prop your arms on, anything, a ladder, the wall, I allways look for someway to steady myself).  Some guys have tables that rotate that help them make real pretty welds like that, and some of the people here can just flat out weld no matter what position they are in.  Keep the pics coming!Oh yea, not dinging you at all on the free hand, the metal of what ever it is will break before your weld will fail, good whetting at the toes (edge of the weld) and great starts and stops.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:I was expecting a little more critcism. I suppose it's good news that my welds look strong from the start. A lot of the future welds that I need to do are going to be verticle welds so I'm going to study more and of corse practice before the real deal. I just need to find some 3/16 scrap to practice on. Well, all of the constructive criticism is awsome. It seems like I'm a little behind on the "lingo", or, terminology that comes with welding though. I guess that means more study time for me. And I hate that I feel rushed to get my project done. I get to go back to Iraq here in a couple of months and need to make some serious progress before my deployment. I'm not going to rush it but I wish I had more time. I'll post my practice verticle welds but it might be a few weeks because tomorrow we start an "EXERCISE" and then I wil be on vacation. So much going on with not enough play time. Thanks for all of the help!
Reply:Good luck with the verticle UP thing.  It took me forever to master it.  I am trying to get my daughter the photographer to do a shore movie.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.Originally Posted by David RGood luck with the verticle UP thing.  It took me forever to master it.
Reply:New pictures. I practiced some verticle welds tonight. I was working on my truck and happened to cut some pieces off that looked good to practice on. Obviously not perfect the first time but I learned a lot in my 4 inch weld. I went against the advise I got to practice stringers first. I wanted to practice doing my weave pattern. Sorry. I think I learned more from this. I started off to the right too much but then got on corse. I wish my pitures were better, I'm working on them, and they are better than the last ones. I think about half way I got the hang of it, with room for improvement. Well, at this point my opinion doesn't mean much so please dig in and let me have it. That was the only scrap I had, maybe tomorrow I'll go to some places to find more. Don't hold back with the criticism, I need it.The back side. What can I look for on the here? I had the flakey stuff on the back again, and after I chipped it off it looked good to me. Good penitration?
Reply:I forgot to mention that both peices are 1/8" inch. The power setting was high according to the chart on the front of the machine. This view might help a little.
Reply:You are getting the hang of it!  The weave looks much better half way up.   The flaky stuff on the back is just showing you have good penatration.  Its mill scale that burns off when you turn the plate red hot.  It would do the same thing if you heated the plate with a torch.  Welds look great.  Keep practicing.  Try a little more time on the sides and less in the middle. It looks like as you got to the top, it got hotter and you started to loose control of the puddle.Perhaps even a heat setting cooler for that size plate.  When you go up, you put in a LOT more heat than flat.  More !  More!DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Like David said, watch your puddle real close and you can see when you need to pause or speed up. Here is an example of a verticle weave filling a large gap I did last night. The first is the root stringer. Attached Images
Reply:Hey BlueBaller, am I to assume you are not a civilian? One thing about safety and mig welding, once you have run a bead and it begins to cool, don't get your naked eyes too close to a weld bead without safety glasses or your hood(dark lense flipped up). This is especially true for mig, the small amounts of glass-like slag are normal and will POP right into your eyes from several inches away. About your welding, I think you have taken to mig just fine, given time and practice you will get better. A proper weld follows proper technique, it took me a loooong time to learn that! Pay attention to your technique, not the cooling weld you just made! The only thing left is prep and machine settings. In time, you will recognize the control you have over every little aspect of your work.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverHey BlueBaller, am I to assume you are not a civilian?
Reply:A few more practice welds from tonight.On these, I started with the right weld. I didn't think I was getting enough penitration on the first two so I slowed the wire speed. I think the third was the best of five. on the 4th I didn't watch my puddle enough so it looks like poo. The 5th I tried a new position and I had sparks going down my sleeve so thats why it looks like poo too. I had a hard time with these because of the position I was in made it difficult to see the puddle and have the nozzle in a good position.These I did last night. I'm happy with them. In the first one on the right I didn't get a perfect start so I ran a short bead on top. Second one turned out great I think. Let me know what you guys think.
Reply:Looking better.  Try a pause before you let go of the trigger.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:In that second picture, you have the perspective I have used for vetical uphill, perhaps slightly exaggerated. That is to say in lab conditions, sitting down, both hands on the gun, raising both forearms from a rested position atop my lap. Plus I hold a mig gun exactly like I shoot a .45 caliber pistol, left thumb interlocked. Starts are usually not the prettiest, for me. Once you get a puddle underway, have your travel path fixed in your minds eye and follow that, try a stepping motion from left to right in a zigzag pattern. Don't dwell in the center at all, move from the left edge to the right edge. That's what you look for, the edge. As the puddle moves to fill the new crater, begin moving across to the other edge. Lead your puddle, don't run away from it, but don't let it run you over. The analogy is like moving a puddle of mercury with a piece of "wire", the mig wire. With mig, the huge advantage is that you do not have slag to confuse you as with stick or flux-core. What you see is weld puddle.  I agree, the middle pass is better than the others.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:My first recommendation would be to switch to an .030 solid wire. The weld puddle will develop a little slower with an .030 wire, then with an .035, giving you more time to read the puddle and react. Also, within the current range that the .030 wire will run ( around 200 amps at the top end), at roughly the same output power level, the .030 wire has the potential to produce a deeper penetrating weld then the .035. You're a hobbiest weldor, so in my opinion, the advantage of the .035 ( higher deposition rate) over an .030 is actually a disadvantage to you.For a vertical up, you're going to need to run lower machine settings then you would in a flat or horizontal position. So, realize for vertical up the suggestion chart Miller provided is useless.For 1/8" vertical up try voltage tap #2 , then find a wire speed that works good.For 3/16" vertical up I'd give voltage tap #2 a try. If you're not liking the result bump up to tap #3.My MM 210 is out a my Dad's, I plan on going out there tomorrow. If I have time, I 'll try running a few samples to post pictures of on here.
Reply:Thanks a lot for your help. My welds are showing improvement. Well, I went for it. I started on my frame notch. All of my runs turned out well except for one. It will be ok though. Now I need some advice for an upside down weld. How do I weld with the nozzle below the bead? Here's a picture of what I need to weld and some of what I've already done.
Reply:Your welds look good, cept you are not supposed to weld verticle on a frame.  It creates a Heat affected Zone next to the weld and could be a weak spot.  The up looks great though.Overhead isn't a big deal, you may have to turn the volts down a little.  Just pretend you are standing up.  NO weaving overhead, just stringer beads.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:When you weld "overhead", cover your scalp with something cotton under you hood, cover up well in the upper body. Our instructor even told us to use ear plugs, because it only takes one little spatter ball to roll into your ear and perforate an ear drum! You may find out very soon that over head welding behaves just like flat (on the table). Avoid any excess of weld puddle build up, this will want to begin to sag and drip. With practice, you will be able to handle some amount of a weave when needed. At first, keep your beads on the narrower side. I don't recall ever changing voltage by very much for overhead mig, and as I understand, your machine voltage adjustment "clicks" into ranges, so try some scrap with the machine set just like it was. See how you do on some scrap in the "overhead" first.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:"Use the same settings for overhead as verticle up"  Welderwmn.I find I need more wire or less volts to keep the wire from melting before it ever touches the plate when welding overhead, but I may be the only one.  If you have voltage taps, just turn the wire up a little.  Like said above, practice first.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:yes be sure to cover you ears i had a ball roll in once thankfully it cooled off enough on the roll to just singe my drum it was weird how i could hear it sizzle out crystal clear  im Lucky it didn't burn threw350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off