Generic Plasma Cutters

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Hi new guy here. Not sure if I am posting the correct section or not.I am in the market for a plasma cutter, intended for light homeowner use. I wish I could afford a Miller or a Lincoln but I just can swing that. Even used I have been seeing those go for $700 to $900. My budget is closer to around $500.On Ebay I see it loaded with generic knock offs machines like Lotus, Accurate Tools, RSAT, AMVent etc. My question is are these type of plasma cutters worth investing in? Does anyone have any experience with these machines? Are parts available for these if it was to breakdown? Are consumables available?Thanks in advance for any info and advice.Last edited by BoSox; 02-11-2011 at 11:37 AM.
Reply:Hi and Welcome,     You could spend your money more wisely by buying a used name brand. These cheap china cutters don't last very long if it even works when you get it. Most of the cheap ones are touch type not pilot arc start. Check out these pictures of the cheap plasma cutters on ebay. Look at the circuit boards see how they are bent and have little or no support, they won't last long before they crack or short out. Attached Imageswww.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Talk to the guys at everlast. For a home hobby user I think you would be crazy to go with a big brand. Plus they have a great warranty and many do have pilot arc. Or you may have luck looking on craigslist for a used unit and may be able to get what you want for a great price.
Reply:I have had great results with my Everlast power plasma 50. It has preformed flawlessly since this its purchase in August 2010.  Several people have seen me use it in my shop, tried it then purchased one . I have been cutting material from mild steel to SS ( 304 & 316 ( as well as aluminum. Mild steel has been from 22 gauge to as thick as 5/8 ths inch .
Reply:i think in the foreign plasma cutters the Longevity and Everlast are the better choices.. thermal dynamics is selling a cutmaster42 for $950.. thats alot of machine for the money.. ive yet to hear anyone of having problems with them.. i bought a Longevity 40i the first week of 2011, it works fine, actually cuts very well, it is also pilot arc machine. it doesnt use consumables very bad.. actually havent even used one tip yet, but i havent used it but like a dozen times...  it cuts just as well as a friend of mines 40 amp snap-on which i think is actually an italian made unit.. i know they have the same torch anyways..  anyways, i had an initial problem with my order of the longevity 40i...  i wonder what the warranty service would be like if i happen to need it.. if i had it to do over again i think i would have got a thermal dynamics cutmaster42.. I simply cant afford a hypertherm., i believe they start at $1500 which is simply out of my price range.. if i owned a business and could write it off yea no big deal, but for home use its just too expensive for a hobby user..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:I just picked up a used Miller 50 amp unit for $400 but it took me about 3 to 4 weeks to find such a deal. Keep looking the deals are out there.
Reply:OP - what did you wind up going with?I'm in the same boat. Considering a plasma cutter for small time hobby use.
Reply:You can find Hypertherm Powermax 30's brand new for under $950 online. These units are designed and built in the USA.....and are well known for reliability and especially for their performance in terms of cut power, cut quality and consumable life that is second to none. Since the Powermax30 has been on the market for about 4 years....there are 10's of thosands in the field....and they show up on the used market often....I have seen them in the $500 range in Craigslist ads. Other Hypertherm units to look for used...The Powermax600 (over 55,000 in the field)...often sells used for under $600, as well as the Powermax380 (not as good as the Powermax30......but often are available for less $).When you buy one of the major brands....and Hypertherm has the highest population in the field, you will get support from a US company that does its own design, has its own engineers, provides free tech service (phone and internet, extended hours) and backs up all of its products....even the ones that are no longer in production. Buying the low cost imports....you are buying from an importer, older systems are not supported well (parts, repairs, etc), the operators manuals are cryptic at best, and there are no service manuals in most cases.I learned....(when I was building up my shop tool collection in my younger years) that long term...it always works out better to buy a used major brand piece of equipment as compared to extreme low cost imports. Have patience, watch Craigslist in your surrounding area dilligently, find a good quality plasma!   Edit: I just checked Vermont and New Hampshire Craigslists....there are a few major brand second hand plasma's for decent prices. Most of the ads under plasma cutters are for new cheap import plasmas...they look the same but have different brand names and colors!Jim ColtLast edited by jimcolt; 08-30-2011 at 09:08 AM.
Reply:BoSox, check your PM's....Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltYou can find Hypertherm Powermax 30's brand new for under $950 online. These units are designed and built in the USA.....and are well known for reliability and especially for their performance in terms of cut power, cut quality and consumable life that is second to none. Since the Powermax30 has been on the market for about 4 years....there are 10's of thosands in the field....and they show up on the used market often....I have seen them in the $500 range in Craigslist ads. Other Hypertherm units to look for used...The Powermax600 (over 55,000 in the field)...often sells used for under $600, as well as the Powermax380 (not as good as the Powermax30......but often are available for less $).When you buy one of the major brands....and Hypertherm has the highest population in the field, you will get support from a US company that does its own design, has its own engineers, provides free tech service (phone and internet, extended hours) and backs up all of its products....even the ones that are no longer in production. Buying the low cost imports....you are buying from an importer, older systems are not supported well (parts, repairs, etc), the operators manuals are cryptic at best, and there are no service manuals in most cases.I learned....(when I was building up my shop tool collection in my younger years) that long term...it always works out better to buy a used major brand piece of equipment as compared to extreme low cost imports. Have patience, watch Craigslist in your surrounding area dilligently, find a good quality plasma!   Edit: I just checked Vermont and New Hampshire Craigslists....there are a few major brand second hand plasma's for decent prices. Most of the ads under plasma cutters are for new cheap import plasmas...they look the same but have different brand names and colors!Jim Colt
Reply:Actually has nothing to do with who built the units. The 380 is a chopper (transformer and pulse width modulated current control) style power supply.....which is a nice design, however it is not nearly as efficient (power in vs power out) as compared to the Powermax30's inverter based power supply.The 30 has 30 amps output with higher rated operating voltage....vs the 27 amps output from the 380 (and lower voltage). Assuming that both units used the same torch  (which they don't) means that just the Powermax30 power supply would allow for faster, thicker cuts with higher duty cycle. The 30 automatically senses for input voltage (120 or 240)...the 380 requires flipping a switch. The 30 is smaller and lighter as compared to the 380.To improve the 30 even more....Hyperthem process engineers developed a new torch with lower air flow and better consumable cooling efficiency....as well as less cathode to anode (electrode to nozzle) current loss....which makes the Powermax 30 torch drag cut with less stiction (nozzle sticking to the plate due to double arcing through the nozzle)....and because of the increased cooling efficiency....the arc energy density is higher (narrower kerf, thicker, faster cuts).I'm not knocking the Powermax380....it is a great unit and there are thousands in the field....however you can safely bet that when Hypertherm replaces a product in its lineup...that the new one will definitely have performance advantages......otherwise we would have no need to replace the previous product.  If I had he choice of a used 380 or a used 30.....and the 30 was more expensive....I'd probably go for the 30 based on its performance advantages. While it is an ugly cut....the Powermax30 can sever 5/8"......you cannot do this with a Powermax380. The 30 torch also is more pointed....for better cut visibility.Jim Attached ImagesLast edited by jimcolt; 08-30-2011 at 02:37 PM.
Reply:Hey BoSox,Do your self a favor & simply wait till you have enough funds to get a good, name-brand used unit, or save a bit more to get a new one. There is a reason most of the fellows here will attempt to enlighten you regarding the chinese units. Here's some pics to show you why.I took a chance & bought a new 60A chinese unit as my production runs dictated a unit with more power than my 35A TD Pacmaster. It worked for (4) easy runs on 5/16" sheetmetal & then the dreaded RED OC light came on. Talking to the technician on the phone & following his instructions, there was a loud bang & flames & smoke coming from my NEW 60A plasma cutter. The tecnician heard it & asked me to e-mail him pics of the internals. I did & then the hassle started. The unit was less than a year old, still under warranty, & it took me 6 mos. of phone calls, e-mails, & finally a formal complaint to the state Attorney General where they were located to get any action. They finally sent me a new one & I didn't even open the box. I listed it on Craigslist, & fortunately, got $200 more than I paid for it. I was lucky compared to most who have posted their miserable service & warranty resolutions here & other forums if you can find them that haven't been deleted.Since you indicate "hobby use", use a bandsaw, dry cut saw, or a 4.5" grinder w/cutoff wheels to get your cutting done & save for a GOOD unit. While waiting for the resolution with the chinese unit, I bought a new Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster52(60A) for $1400 incl. s/h. Here's the pics....Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Yorkieyap, those pics should be a sticky for every noob that asks about buying chinese junk.    Also for the OP. I suggest avoiding any combination unit plasma/ welder.   No one has been able to make a good xombo unit from what I have seen. Even my favorite Powcon brand, the combo units with plasma are known for high failure rate.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I bought an Everlast plasma cutter for the same reasons that you list.  Although it works fine, I wish I had bought a Hypertherm unit because every time I use it, I wonder if it is going to work.  The piece of mind is worth waiting and saving for.
Reply:I know I'm going against the mainstream but I'll buy chinese anyday and I promise I won't complain one bit if it breaks. For hobby stuff, I can't really justify buying anything else.Of course, I have no feelings whatsoever about patriotism when it comes to buying tools. Not an issue anyhow since no welders are built in my country anymore but even it there were, I'd still buy what I feel is the best value for me.
Reply:There is a great market niche for low cost plasma systems and welders....most of the major manufacturers are not interested in participating in that market....for a variety of reasons. If I was on a tight budget and needed/wanted a system for occasional use....I would certainly consider thes low cost options.The point is....and it is pretty clear from the feedback of hundreds of users on this and many other forums, (and I am speaking primarily of the plasma systems....which is my area of expertise) that you should not expect, and will not get the same levels of performance in terms of :  1. Cut Quality, 2. Cut Power, 3. Consumable life 4. Long term reliability, 5. Factory service and support (from the designers and engineers and manufacturers), 6. Reliability......all of which add up to lomg term operating cost.It irks me when sales people from the low cost import side claim that there systems cut as fast, as thick, and have similar or better consumable life. They don't.  And if you hear this from someone that is using a low cost import....I would surmise that they have never used a modern plasma system from Hypertherm...or one of the other major manufacturers....I have tested almost all brands and models.For light hobby use...yes, the low cost plasma systems cut metal. So, if you want or need extremely low cost plasma cutting....there are dozens of imports available. I suggest buying from an established large company....not from an importer that operates out of a warehouse. Northern Tool and Eastwood Company are good examples of where to buy low cost plasma....as they have a warranty and a reputation that they will uphold. Importers tend to advertise great warranties....but it is pretty clear from the negative feedback that I have seen that they do not always follow through on their policy claims.Don't forget.....it takes some looking and patience, there is a large used plasma cutting system market out there. Often you can buy a used major brand, less than 5 year old plasma for a similar price as the import. I think this is a much better decision.If your hobby use ever expands into a business....and you end up using your plasma cutter regularly....then purchasing a major brand system is the lowest cost choice. You certainly pay more at the point of purchase.....but if you could factor in cost savings (consumables, less rework on parts cut, faster cuts, less down time (reliability) and resale value)....the major brand new plasma system is by far the best factor.While my company's products are made in the USA......where the systems are made has nothing to do with quality. Quality in a plasma system or welder comes from the engineering which produces a product design, as well as the quality control in manufacturing, and the committment of the manufacturer to continuously improve their products as well as supporting the products for many years after they are sold. That can be done anywhere in the world.....but it does add value and cost to the system. If you read and understand this last paragraph....that is why many major manufacturers are not interested in participating in the extremely low cost system market!Jim Colt Originally Posted by LlundbergI know I'm going against the mainstream but I'll buy chinese anyday and I promise I won't complain one bit if it breaks. For hobby stuff, I can't really justify buying anything else.Of course, I have no feelings whatsoever about patriotism when it comes to buying tools. Not an issue anyhow since no welders are built in my country anymore but even it there were, I'd still buy what I feel is the best value for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by LlundbergI know I'm going against the mainstream but I'll buy chinese anyday and I promise I won't complain one bit if it breaks. For hobby stuff, I can't really justify buying anything else.Of course, I have no feelings whatsoever about patriotism when it comes to buying tools. Not an issue anyhow since no welders are built in my country anymore but even it there were, I'd still buy what I feel is the best value for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by jbmprods2hrs into your first job and it breaks you wouldn't complain one little bit huh.......yeah right! in a kangaroo's rectum.
Reply:Llundberg,  You are also down under and I am sure the availability and pricing of the top of the line stuff is way higher down there... How is the used market for machines?  I am guessing they get top dollar too...  I think Jim sums it up well in his post... Having a place close that services them does make a big difference too...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Very good point. The second hand market is pretty poor to be honest, there's not much to choose from and I have to tell you that I'm pretty jealous of the US market. If I could have got something decent second hand, I would almost certainly have considered that.There are some good bits being offered occassionally but never what I need and never when I'm looking.Much of the second hand market seems to be industrial and as such, three-phase 415V and even though I have that in my house for the aircon, I don't think it makes sense to use it for welding. At least not for what I need.The good thing is that general supply is 240V. At least I assume its a good thing based on what I read about 110V MIGs? I may be wrong about that.I do want to sell my Awelco POS MIG to someone (pity the poor bastard who buys it) and will try to do that before I buy a better MIG.Last edited by Llundberg; 09-03-2011 at 02:38 AM.
Reply:Here's a link to my blog.  http://randompensivity.blogspot.com/  I have taken pictures of the internals of an Eastwood to compare to.  Definite similarities, but definite differences as well.