Is it the WIRE????

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I have been trying to run Flux core wire to no avail. Regardless of the wire speed or voltage I get a ton of bird shot size BB's. I have gotten some good weld beads but my work table and the work piece are covered in weld splatter. I have tried anti splatter and PAM spray it helps but starts on fire and chokes me out. Have you ever heard of crapping wire? I don't want to blast the manufacturer on the web or go to my LWS and come off like a dope.  I powering a Miller suitcase welder (12vs x-treme) with a gas driven welder. I can run solid wire with gas OK just not this .045 flux core thru a Ironmate FC-1250 gun no gas. Any and all advice or help is greatly appreciated. I have looked on line at the manfacturers data sheet and see nothing unusual.I have kept a weld log with comments because of all the various combinations but no luck.
Reply:DID YOU SWITCH POLARITY?Cored gasless that would be self shielding runs DC-.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:What wire are you running? NR-211, Hobart 21B, any E71-T11? If so change to DCEN.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I will switch polarity tomorrow and try. So I will need to change my leads off the gas driven to keep the ground referance the same with the suitcase as well as switch the gas driven welder polarity?? Both units have ground to the work piece so you must switch leads and polarity or it will put one unit out of phase with the other or am I all messed up?
Reply:You are correct.  Switch the leads at the engine drive.  There should be a switch on the wire feeder too.  Mine won't work if the voltmeter doesn't show OCV.  OK, OK, I did the same thing.  Bought a roll of T-8 wire for a big job.  stood at my workbench in my garage at home engine drive running outside.  2 hours of %$#!!  Trying to run it vertical up.  I had the spec sheet right in front of me with all the "speeds and feeds".  Then it hit me.  Switched leads, and voltmeter on wire feed.  Started all over.     Ahhhhh.  Worked great.  Said DC- right on the top of the page.   Probably 150 lbs of scrap and burned up 5 lbs of wire.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RDID YOU SWITCH POLARITY?Cored gasless that would be self shielding runs DC-.
Reply:Thanks David that is exactly where I am at but now I have something to dream about until tomorrow sick huh?
Reply:Show us some PicturesDavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Just like Davbid R said, chances are you need to switch polarity. Any self shielded wire that is an EXXT-8 or EXXT-11 is required to run on DCEN. Remember these wires run on low voltages, and volt sense feeders are powered off arc voltage. The reason I bring this up is because alot of times guys set the voltage at the machine, then run 200 feet of cable and  wonder why the feeder won't operate correctly. Make sure you account for the voltage drop in the leads. All volt sense feeders operate that way, I don't care if its a Miller, Lincoln or made by Mickey Mouse.Arguing with a Welding Engineer is like wrestling with a pig... after a while you realize the pig likes it
Reply:Thanks I will take some photos and post em. I will definetly remember the advice about lead length. My weld leads are 25' and my gun is 15'. Its kinda tough to catch the voltage and the fine adjust on my gas driven is 1-10. Should I leave the gas driven in AUTO or Manual and adjust the fine control?
Reply:Auto or manual?  Doesn't matter to me.  Is your gun "hot" all the time?Your machine may need to be up to governed speed or not, depending.....You will know after a few tries.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Ok here we go. 1) I called the wire manufacture rep and he recommended 5/8 to 3/4 stickout 2) printed out the wire spec 3) Used the ranges recommended 4)Changed polarity to DCEN. Now for the expectations the LWS and the wire spec sheet and rep all said " low spatter".  I have tried both push and drag not much difference on the spatter just the weld profile. The photo's are all push examples.Tell me if it meets "low spatter" the three pass photo show how bad it gets fast, this stuff is about like 6010 to me. It is just about lunch time so I include a pic of grilled pork chops asparagus and herbed potatoes. Tell me what you think.
Reply:Are you on CV?Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Thanks the knob on the left is the setting for CV. I believe it go up to 30 volts.
Reply:What wire are you using?
Reply:Washington Alloy Co. E71T-GS Diameter .045" FYI the settings were 220ipm at 24 volts.Here's the gun.
Reply:Just for fun, try about 17-18 volts and about 150-170ipm...it might work better....it might not
Reply:Welderwmn knows her stuff.  MOST GS wire is low voltage compared to other stuff.  NR211 runs in the high teens.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Goin out to the pad and try lower settings thanks alot I let ya know what happens.
Reply:Wielro,A couple posts back you may have noticed that I mentioned low voltages.  Self shielded wires are very sensitive to voltage. Welderwomn is very correct, you need to bring your wirespeeds and voltages down. Your are over powering the wire.Arguing with a Welding Engineer is like wrestling with a pig... after a while you realize the pig likes it
Reply:ME thinks lunch looks much better than the weld bead.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Here's what I did.I started at 100 ipm and increased by increments of 10 to a max of 190. The voltage at ~15/16 stumble started raised to 17-18 and it would run in some cases bacon fry. The net result did not produce any less spatter and in most cases even when I went at a very slow pace the weld was puny. I have wire wheeled the surface of the practice pieces but not chem wiped could this be the cause of spatter?  The material was 3/16 mild steel no primer paint or sealer. I don't doubt anyones expertise I just thought I would include the information I took off the poop sheet.The wire spec had wire speed 200-450 / Amps 150-250 / Volts 22-29 Stickout 1/2 - 1"
Reply:Prime suspect, for me at least at this point, junk wire.You've tried the scale of V/A, nothing stable...shouldn't have to do any more than clear the surface of your plate. That's supposed to be one of the advantages of flux wire...less prep time.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Self shielded wire has a bacon frying sound, when its running right. When you had the bacon frying sound at 17 volts was there still large pieces of spatter sticking to the plate or where they fewer and smaller. You will still see large amounts of small spatter flying out of the arc similar to a 6010 rod, that is just the nature of the arc transfer. What you shouldn't see is lots of large sticking spatter.Last edited by reddoggoose; 08-30-2007 at 05:56 PM.Arguing with a Welding Engineer is like wrestling with a pig... after a while you realize the pig likes it
Reply:About theose potatoes,,,, I like the herb kind, but I woul dhave to try them myself to really tell ya if I like them!!!!!!  Originally Posted by wielroOk here we go. 1) I called the wire manufacture rep and he recommended 5/8 to 3/4 stickout 2) printed out the wire spec 3) Used the ranges recommended 4)Changed polarity to DCEN. Now for the expectations the LWS and the wire spec sheet and rep all said " low spatter".  I have tried both push and drag not much difference on the spatter just the weld profile. The photo's are all push examples.Tell me if it meets "low spatter" the three pass photo show how bad it gets fast, this stuff is about like 6010 to me. It is just about lunch time so I include a pic of grilled pork chops asparagus and herbed potatoes. Tell me what you think.Reddog... It appeared to be smaller spatter and it was sticking to the plate. This would be great if I was doing stair tread. I would be willing to take recommendations on a different brand of wire but stay with the .045 dia. (thats the rollers and gun liner set up). My machine will only accept the 2" diameter spools so it gets expensive to experiment.
Reply:Originally Posted by wielroHere's what I did.I started at 100 ipm and increased by increments of 10 to a max of 190. The voltage at ~15/16 stumble started raised to 17-18 and it would run in some cases bacon fry. The net result did not produce any less spatter and in most cases even when I went at a very slow pace the weld was puny. I have wire wheeled the surface of the practice pieces but not chem wiped could this be the cause of spatter?  The material was 3/16 mild steel no primer paint or sealer. I don't doubt anyones expertise I just thought I would include the information I took off the poop sheet.The wire spec had wire speed 200-450 / Amps 150-250 / Volts 22-29 Stickout 1/2 - 1"
Reply:Originally Posted by reddoggooseGo back and double check your parameters. Those sound suspiciously close to gas shielded flux core parameters. Make sure you are looking at the correct classification and not an E71T-1 wire. There is world of difference between a E71T-1 and an E71T-11. I checked on their website for more info but their site SUCKS. I have never seen a self shield wire be recommended for voltages up to 29 volts. Even the 5/64 self shielded wires I have tested with usually only go up to about 23 and that's even getting to be too much.
Reply:2" diameter spools????The 'small' spools I know of are 4" diameter and 1 lb in fluxcore or 2 lb in solid steel, in aluminum they are 1 lb.Unless you mean a 2" diameter spindle??The Miller site says that the Suitcase 12VS can handle 12" diameter 45 lb spools max.Lincoln Innershield NR211-MP.  Max material thickness limit for the 0.045 wire is 5/16 inch plate.  NR212 has a listed max plate thickness of 3/4 inch.  Smallest listed spool is a 10 lb for both (the 8" diameter spool).For 0.045 NR-211-MP, the 'book' lists WFS=110ipm, V=17, and current~160A up to WFS=130ipm, V=18, and current~170A.For 0.045 NR-212, WFS=110ipm, V=17, and current~135A to WFS=150ipm, V=19, and current~170A.Both list CTWD as 5/8".To decrease spatter, - adjust voltage;- decrease drag angle;- decrease CTWD;- increase WFS;- decrease travel speed.Maybe your wire was exposed to moisture/humidity?  One listed problem for moisture exposure on Innershield wire is high spatter and porosity.
Reply:Reddog... I could not have said it better regarding the web site, feels more likd goverment compliance for MSDS sheets than to get to product information. I have the rep's cell phone I will call him tomorrow am he is in the southeast.Welderwoman... I wonder about the two grounds. The one from the gas driven is a stout weld lead with large screw clamp to the work table. The one from the suitcase wire feed is a wimpy squeeze clamp. I have it it to the work table also but have tried from time to time on the practice plate don't recall if I was "frying bacon" anytime or not. I was told that the wire feed ground was only a referance for the ciruit board to display correct voltage and wire speed little to do with completing the path to ground which was the larger gas driven one DUNNO?
Reply:What color is the wire?  I know it sounds dumb, but Self-shielding is bright, shiny silver, whereas gas-shielded is dull grey.About the grounds, it is a good idea to make sure that all the cables including the ground clamp are securely attached and the bolts are tight.  You should attach the ground clamp as close to your work as you reasonably can and make sure that it is contacting bright shiny metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by wielroReddog... I could not have said it better regarding the web site, feels more likd goverment compliance for MSDS sheets than to get to product information. I have the rep's cell phone I will call him tomorrow am he is in the southeast.Welderwoman... I wonder about the two grounds. The one from the gas driven is a stout weld lead with large screw clamp to the work table. The one from the suitcase wire feed is a wimpy squeeze clamp. I have it it to the work table also but have tried from time to time on the practice plate don't recall if I was "frying bacon" anytime or not. I was told that the wire feed ground was only a referance for the ciruit board to display correct voltage and wire speed little to do with completing the path to ground which was the larger gas driven one DUNNO?
Reply:Moonrise... I stand corrected it is the spindle size. It still ends up alot of wire if it is only going to proform like what ya see. Maybe I can take the wire back to the LWS (something I hate to do), I will ask the wire rep and see if thinks it might be moisture related. He recommended I could go as much as 1" stickout to help with moisture, something about this allows for the flux to work better when moisture present. I have tried in and out stick motion when I experiment but 5/8-3/4 was about the best. I don't know how long it was on the shelf, it has no born on date. There is a big long number maybe he can tell from that will see in the am.
Reply:I know it's been discussed and you have checked, but it still seems to me, with everything you've tried, that there's still a problem with the polarity.I'm not familiar with your setup, but could the problem stem from using the two grounds.  I don't see how, but seems everything else has already been mentioned.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:WelderwomanYou could be onto something. It seems like it is dull grey and it leaves a lot smudgy film on your bare hands when loading the rig and gun. I am going out to brake it down for the day and will look at it closer thanks for you input. Man it's driving me crazy. Do have any photo's of similiar welds you have done so I can compare. Everybody says your the bomb when it comes to wireshow me your stuff I showed you my cooking.
Reply:Originally Posted by wielroWelderwomanSnip your the bomb when it comes to wireSnip
Reply:The BB's are typical for a GS wire from my experience. I hate GS wire and will not use it for just that reason. If you must use self shielded, get a 71T-11 wire like Linc NR-211 or Hobart Fabshield 21B or other...just get a T-11. The T-11 will run much better.
Reply:Originally Posted by wielroWelderwomanYou could be onto something. It seems like it is dull grey and it leaves a lot smudgy film on your bare hands when loading the rig and gun. I am going out to brake it down for the day and will look at it closer thanks for you input. Man it's driving me crazy. Do have any photo's of similiar welds you have done so I can compare. Everybody says your the bomb when it comes to wireshow me your stuff I showed you my cooking.
Reply:Plan B for the day. Thanks Welderwoman for pointing me to the pic's, from what I see there is hope. MoonriseIII gave me an idea maybe I hook up my trailer and take my suitcase wirefeed to the LWS where I bought it and see if they can give me any pointers. What ya think?
Reply:Every LWS I frequent could never even begin to offer any help in that regard. We weld, they sell, it is that simple. There may be some that acually can weld and be effective, but I wouldn't hold my breath,
Reply:END OF THREAD PROBLEMO SOLVED.  Took it over to the LWS and the backroom equipment guy (pipe fitter local 290) worked with it and for all those that were on the polarity trail that was it. The selector switch was not makeing good contact in the DCEN position. But thanks to all the other contributors as well the real world working range seems to be 160-220 ipm and 18- 22 volts. I got some quality welds at 185ipm and 21 volts. I love my welder again. This forum is the best thanks aqain.
Reply:I am happy that your problem is solved...I am rather disappointed that I don't get to post the pics of the welds that I did today that you asked for though....
Reply:Please post em up the pictures I mean. I could always learn something.
Reply:Well, that's good news !! A machine malfunction would be hard to figure out over the www so it's good there is an experienced hand at your LWS. Also good to hear it wasn't the wire, I'd only heard one other report on Washington Alloy and it was a positive report...guess the conclusion of this thread now makes two positive, zero negative reports.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:alright...this is a bead done with .030 E71T-GS wire....different size than what you are using, but same idea...The only thing I did was wire brush the slag off.  No spatter has been removed, nothing has been dressed up.
Reply:Glad you got it solved! David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks for the pictures Welderwoman that is a great looking bead, something for me to shoot for definetly. In my practice welds I am getting maybe 6-10 very small splatters yours seem to be less and the edges seem better. I will practice towards perfection thanks again.
Reply:Thanks Wielro, I am sure that you will have it down in no time at all....
Reply:is this gas or gas less wireCWF07Stick Welder
Reply:Nice looking welds there.