Basic Question about 6010

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I recently acquired an old Idealarc TIG 300/300 and I have decided its time to learn to run a decent bead with 6010 - 6011.  Ive been going out to the shop and practising for 20 mins a day, burning my way thru a 50# box of 5/32 6010.  Right now I am trying to run a decent looking stringer in the flat position on scrap 1/4" plate.  I have the amps set at what looks like 85 - 95 amps on the IdealArc.  At least thats what I figure from the settings but I am not sure how accurate the fine control dial is.I have been doing ok with the straight pull, floating the rod about 1/8" above the work and controling my travel by watching the ripples.  Someone suggested using a tight C motion.  I cant do this without spreading the bead much wider than 1.5x dia of the rod.  Another technique I have found mentioned several places is a whipping motion.  I've tried this and it seems to be a sort of lift and dab technique.  This works sorta - still not as good as a straight pull and I definitely dont get the stack of dimes that people describe - I get a row of fine ripples same as when I pull .  I am very confused about this whipping motion.  How exactly does one do it?  What's the point?  Why not just pull the rod?  My Lincoln book "New Lessons in Arc Welding" says this is an example of using the whipping technique to keep the puddle hot - the way they describe it, there is a little pause on the down stroke, whereas when whipping to keep the puddle cool (out of position welding) the pause occurs at the high point in the motion.I am totally cofnused and would much appreciate any advice or explanations.  Thank you all355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:Welcome to Weldingweb! I could go on and on and type out an explanation, but it might be easier to read from the experts - lots of great information and tips here: http://millerwelds.com/resources/imp...-skills/stick/Hope that helps...John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Whip and pause, what's the point?Not a stick expert, but I was taught 6010/6011 whip and pause for vertical up, open root, groove joint welding.The pause melts a keyhole through to the backside, achieving a full penetration puddle and deposits metal.The whip moves the heat away from the puddle, allows the puddle to freeze before falling on the floor, making a shelf to deposit the next pause on top of.The whip motion (as I recall) can be a simple lift of the hand by bending at the wrist, so the rod tip moves up (1"?) and out (3/16"?).  The arc may be directed toward the side of the groove bevel to prevent overheating the open root area ahead of the puddle.6010/6011 can tolerate the longer arc length during the whip without producing porosity, but don't do this with 7018.
Reply:Thanks Microzone & Pulser.  I went to the Miller site and there is a lot of useful information there (thankyou) but nothing about this particular technique.  This is a whip technique used for in position welding not the whipping technique used to cool the puddle when welding out of position.355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:Practice vertical up. That's where the whipping motion pays off.  Join two pieces of steel at 90 degrees from each other, then stand them up so the joint runs vertical.  After you get good at that, leave a slight gap, or better yet use two peices cut with a torch and ground down.  Once you get that figured out there won't be anything you won't be able to handle on a job site.
Reply:wow...well....for 5/32 rod you should be somewhat higher I might say...In 1/8 I ran 110-125about the other stuff...listen to the other guysMy Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:I agree, For a 5/32 you need to be running more amps.  You can whip a 6010 in the flat position if you are going for the stack of dimes look.  However you can run it straight out just as well with out the whip in flat.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Forget about that freaking stack of dimes look. If your weld has good pentration has consistant width and height, and is tied in good nothing is wrong with a fine row of ripples.
Reply:I agree, a smooth weld with small ripples looks good to me no matter what process.I read here that to whip 6010 flat is move ahead 3/4", move back 1/2" or so.  When you move back, take the rod and push the puddle back.  Go back into the puddle about a rods width.   I tried it, it worked for me.  I have not run 50 lbs of 6010 in my life.  I have been trying to get the hang of it.  It seems to work the same for verticle up except I stop at the puddle.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Pulser nailed the reason for whipping and pausing.  It makes for bridging open roots a breeze.Whip and pause needs to be a very fast whip and the pause is dependant on how the puddle looks.  It will take practice to know how long to pause and when to move the rod to control the puddle flow.  If you are welding a fillet or open root or v-groove and you pull away when you whip for too long your weld will crack right down the center starting from the end to the beginning.  Every single time it will crack.  Usually after you grind it smooth for a cover pass.  A good way to see if you are doing it right is after you lay down your weld go back and grind it smooth, let it cool and look closely.  If it has a crack, you are pulling away for too long or your settings are off.The reason for the cracking is the same as if you are tig welding or running wire.  At the end of a weld you don't just _STOP_ and call it good.  You need to circle around in the same spot for a bit (with tig you ease off the petal slowly).  Pulling away for too long lets the "dime" you laid down cool compeletely as if you just instantly stopped a tig/mig weld and that individual "dime" will crack.  If you do it throughout the entire weld the cracks will line up and your weld will fail.When I run 6010 overhead or flat I don't even whip.  I move in front about 1/2" and move back about 3/8" and pause until I see the puddle form and climb the edges of the material how I want.When I run an open root in ANY position I whip.  When I pause I go from side to side then back to the center and whip again.  If you move away and back like I described above it will melt away your nice feathered edges on the steel.Really the only time I drag 6010 is on a vertical weld that is used for cleaning or making something watertight and I drag down, grind smooth, and cover with wire or a low hydrogen rod.I also drag 6010 for underwater welding as there is no need to let the puddle cool, the water is quenching the weld as you go along.
Reply:[QUOTE=WelderBoy]Pulser nailed the reason for whipping and pausing.  It makes for bridging open roots a breeze.Whip and pause needs to be a very fast whip and the pause is dependant on how the puddle looks.  It will take practice to know how long to pause and when to move the rod to control the puddle flow.  If you are welding a fillet or open root or v-groove and you pull away when you whip for too long your weld will crack right down the center starting from the end to the beginning.  Every single time it will crack.  Usually after you grind it smooth for a cover pass.  A good way to see if you are doing it right is after you lay down your weld go back and grind it smooth, let it cool and look closely.  If it has a crack, you are pulling away for too long or your settings are off.The reason for the cracking is the same as if you are tig welding or running wire.  At the end of a weld you don't just _STOP_ and call it good.  You need to circle around in the same spot for a bit (with tig you ease off the petal slowly).  Pulling away for too long lets the "dime" you laid down cool compeletely as if you just instantly stopped a tig/mig weld and that individual "dime" will crack.  If you do it throughout the entire weld the cracks will line up and your weld will fail.When I run 6010 overhead or flat I don't even whip.  I move in front about 1/2" and move back about 3/8" and pause until I see the puddle form and climb the edges of the material how I want.When I run an open root in ANY position I whip.  When I pause I go from side to side then back to the center and whip again.  If you move away and back like I described above it will melt away your nice feathered edges on the steel.QUOTE]   I wish I knew this when I was in school doing stick.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:What I tell people when I teach then 6010 is think of a waltz: ONE-two-three, ONE-two-three. That gives the approximate timing, and it gets adjusted to meet the behaviour of the puddle.
Reply:I never waltz'd, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
Reply:I need this, This week I will run some 6010.  Someday I will get the hang of it.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thank you everyone for your helpful comments.  I have learned a bunch from what has been said so far.I used to think welding was a kind of glue gun operation.  Then I bought my first welder and realized there was more to it and it was going to take some practice.  Now that I have gotten serious about mastering the basics I realize there is a whole lot more to welding than I am ever likely to learn.355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:Does this help?  It only pertains to an open root but can sort of be applied to a fillet. Attached Images
Reply:Very nice diagram welderboy. That should come in useful for alot of people.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Thanks welderboy.  Thats a great diagram.  I will hang on to this thread for reference.355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:Just started welding class 3 days ago. Teacher started us on 6010. He said if we got this it is normally easy to use other rods. Only welded flat sofar, stay in puddle and small circles(about width of rod.) Mine are looking soso.In College for welding.Learning 6010 first.passed butt weld, lap, lap multipass, t-weld I have a Campbell Hausfeld Farmhand 125 (only used fluxcore sofar).
Reply:I had TOZZI show me how to run 6010.  It is just as you described.  Small circles about the width of the rod.  Deposition is just slow to me.  I tried it on a a bucket I gouged, chipped the slag and ran 6010 for the first pass.  It worked pretty good.  Shore like the 7018. DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I have been practising both movements, the small circles and the "whip" which is a back and forth motion.  Both seem to work.  I was curious about the whip motion because the Lincoln "New Lessons in Arc Welding"  has an exercise to run an in pos. stringer of 6010 using "whip".  As best I can figure out, this is just back forth without changing the length of the arc.I ran some 6013 last night and got nice looking beads after a few tries but I just cant make out the puddle under all the molten slag.  There sure is a lot of slag compared to 6010.  Is there a trick to seeing the puddle itself?355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:Originally Posted by maddogI ran some 6013 last night and got nice looking beads after a few tries but I just cant make out the puddle under all the molten slag.  There sure is a lot of slag compared to 6010.  Is there a trick to seeing the puddle itself?
Reply:If you increase the drag angle, (tip the rod more) It will blow the slag further back. If you watch you can keep it just a little behind you.  Same for 7018.One thing I read for innershield said to watch the slag to set your travel speed.  Keep it just behind the puddle.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks David & WBoy.  That helped.   Still a lot more guessing than with 6010.  I welded up a small base for some metal cabinets out of scrap from my backyard.   The legs were 3/16"  and the cross pieces were unistrut.  So thick to thin.  6013 worked well and the beads look nice.355# Hay Budden3# Hofi HammerPropane ForgeIdealarc TIG 300/300AllStates Oxy Propane torchSmith Little Torch
Reply:Well I run these on pipe vert down.  Root 'around' 120 amps with a 3.2mm or 140-50ish with a 4mm, straight polarity and dragging the rod, the hot pass around 140 amps with the smaller rod and the whip your talking about or 160-70 with the 4mm, but there's not much in the way of pausing going on.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.