Gotta Problem With My Ball (singular)

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Looks like this is gonna be an unanticipated job.  Thought the doggone truck was ready to go to workThe bed is mounted weird to say the least.  Saw it when I bought it, but figured it had been on the road for 15yrs so why sweat it.The design of the bed, plus the way the bed has been mounted will put me in a bind.  The gooseneck ball will not match any of my trailers.  It's way too high off the frame of the truck.  My trailer hitches simply won't match.  I can't adjust them high enough.The cobbled together mounts on the bed scream trouble, to me at least.In the next week we're looking at cutting the bed off, making a hitch that directly mounts to, or directly bears on the frame, and re doing the lousy mounts on the bed.I will not alter all my trailers to fit this thing.  It's one of those things that I should have paid closer attention to when I bought the truck.  But I probably would have bought the truck anyway, you know how that goes Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:My trailer hitches are not capable of adjusting enough to compensate for the large height difference.  They're maxed out now, or close to it Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Yeah I'd say there's 'room' for lowering the OA height of that bed Sam.  Will require some rerouting/relocating of that fuel fill of course.  I have no doubt it'll be better than it is now when you're done for sure.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Stay tuned for a lot of grouchy monologues, and tirades, not to mention the occassional rantAnd hopefully no mushroom cloud when the torch comes out.  Mighty close to the fuel tanks"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Modifying one bed mounting vs. all your trailers seems the thing to do considering you'll be able to make it better in the process IMO.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I think you have the right idea Sam. Those trailers shouldn't change from truck to truck.
Reply:Keep losing my connectionDuane, I really don't see any alternative.I see a lot of hitches mounted in this manner, but I've never felt good about them.  The hitch I made for the Dodge (before I could weld) bolted directly to the frame.  It didn't transfer load thru the bed of the truck.I'm thinking 2 independant structures....hitch and bed.  Or if clearance is an issue... a bed hitch tied into the frame better than it is nowLast edited by farmersamm; 07-17-2009 at 12:10 AM.Reason: spelling"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI'm thinking 2 independant structures....hitch and bed.  Or if clearance is an issue... a bed hitch tied into the frame better than it is now
Reply:Oh man, that sucks .. Well, at least you know it'll work when you get finished, and it'll be done right.  Just be careful around those tanks and that fuel filler, Samm - we'd kinda like to keep you around here a little while longer.
Reply:Samm,How did you sneak over here to Ohio and take pictures of the bed and gooseneck hitch on my work truck?I'm not kidding, it looks like the same guy did the install on both beds.  And yes, I'll be following your work closely, and maybe even doing some of the same things at the same time.  Will take photos in a short while to show you I'm not kidding...Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:My old Super duty had a hitch mounted higher than that I think.  Can't you make use of your Jack?  Just wondering how much out of level it will make them.  It looks as if that ball has seen plenty of hitching.  It ought to still work.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Looks like you've got plenty of springs on there!  Why not just take about half of them out?  That should lower the back end down and leave plenty for hauling.
Reply:You should be able to lower the bed frame rail 'til it just touches the "hump" in the truck frame above axle. Just a suggestion, the fuel fill spout attached to the flatbed should be horizontal and the hose needs to be as straight and sloped down to the top of truck frame as possible. I can't see a vent hose from tank to fill spout. If it doesn't have it, I bet a sixpack can be consumed just waiting to fill the tank!!!! If you need the vent detup, go to the wrecking yard and find a p/u bed fill spout. It will have the fitting for the vent on it. Mount the fill spout w/ the vent fitting as high as possible.                              HTH,                                     Mikeps: I worked for about a yr after retirement helping a friend who has a flatbed sales and installation business.Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:samm, with your combination of imagining the fix and then implementing it, aint no doubt in my mine, them trailersw will soon be trailin...and be glad you still got one good ball
Reply:The place in Nebraska that made ball plates used a plate that ran from frame rail to frame rail, then had 1/5" x 3/16 angle under it front & rear frame rail to frame rail.  These things were strong enough for 32' stock trailers, so I figger you should be able to fix this. Looks to me, just attach the ball to a plate then set the bed back down on the frame.  Just make sure you have clearance for suspension movement.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Up until this winter, we used to get 3 or 4 GM trucks each winter to swap bedmounted gooseneck hitches from last years model into the latest model. These were NHRA tow vehicles. The hitches were nothing but a big chunk of plate with a series of mounting holes all around and a ball right in the middle. We used a pair of heavy angle irons to cross between framerails under the bed to tie into the frame. The four corner bolts doubled as frame mounts through the top flange of the frame. On the outboard side of the frame rails we had short, heavy angle brackets to aid in locating the plate and securing it. None of it was complex or hard to figure out, just built with lots of 3/8" material or comparable thickness pieces. The hardest part was drilling all the bolt holes! In the bed we used spacers under the bed channels to keep from flattening out the sheetmetal. You won't have that problem!!  If you put heat to steel anywhere close to fuel, use lots of wet rags to quench the sparklers!  Keep an extinguisher handy, juss in case...City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Samm;Do you need the bed when you're using the hitch? If not, put some parallel rails above the frame and some matching channels on the bottom of the bed so you can add or remove the bed, just like the trucks which haul large dumpsters! If you need some, but not all, of the bed, just make the back half removable so the hitch can be lower, mounted on the frame, and easily reached but you can still carry your tools, your lunch, and enough beer to last the day.You'll have a one-of-a-kind rig!  Enter the idea in some truck building contest so you get the work paid for by the prize. Don't forget some rollers to make it 'slide' better.
Reply:^^-- OldIron: those rigs are called "debris trucks."  Daddy used to work as a garbage truck mechanic ....  The tipper rails (the ones the dumpsters and compactors slide on) have shovel-shaped ends to make sure the rails on the dumpster are lined up correctly.  The winch is attached in back of the truck's cab, and the "Big Hook" attaches to the front of the dumpster in something like a 2"-3" steel reinforced plate.  When the winch is engaged, it has enough power to not only pull the dumpster onto the rails, but occasionally pull the entire front end of the truck off the ground if the dumpster is on the heavy side.Back to Sam's truck:Slick idea, making a little half-bed.  I can actually see that being done....... knowing Sam, he just might!Last edited by SpyGuy; 07-19-2009 at 01:41 AM.
Reply:Looks to be big gap tween truck frame and bed frame. Hitch ball on plate (or channel) plate on frame rails, box and cross brace.My mom's old man put side boxs on his 2007 HD 4 wheel drive (stud real tall wit out boxs) so to make goose fit new truck he cut and spliced the vertical neck just below the gusset. He didnt want to ding his new boxs! If anyone else had pulled that stunt i would have flipped but i trust his work. Boxed it and fish plated too, aint put hitch in my current truck yet so i aint pulled it since the neck mods. But i did clean the bed out today and i got the parts so i may go gooseneckin soon.Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:Just looking at the pics I am guessing that it is roughly 6" between the deck of the bed and the highest point of the frame rails. ( Looks like 2 3" channels)  In my experience that is about right on the bed height.  The ball height is an all together different situation.  I'm afraid if you drop the bed down on the frame anymore than it already is then you are gonna run into issues with the tires hitting the bed when the springs compress.Last edited by Hammack_Welding; 07-19-2009 at 01:55 PM.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Hammack hit it on the head about the clearance between wheels and underside of bed.  Springs need room to compress.Tanglediver, I'd give anything to be able to do the same type of hitch on this truck.  It's nearly identical to what I have under the old Dodge.  But....................."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:So, Here are some photos of what I worked on this weekend.  Same gooseneck hitch as yours Samm.  I'm going to cover it with some sheet soon, as I'm tired of dodging it when I walk on the truckbed.  Decided I don't have a use for it, and it's mounted in a really crappy manner, so I'd like to remove it.  But will need more time than I can spare now to do the job right.  After spending several hours under the truck on Sunday, I'd never use that hitch.  It's just welded to the truck bed, with no direct connection to the truck frame.  And, if you look at the other photos, you'll see that the bed mounts leave something to be desired.There are six pieces of 4" C channel attaching the bed to the frame.  2 were horribly installed, with steel spacers and some of the worst GMAW welds I've ever seen.  Fortunately, the other 4 mounts look like they have sound welds holding them in place.I cut out the mount shown in the 3rd photo and replaced it with a slightly smaller 3" piece of C channel.  I welded it flush to the frame and to the bottom of the deck beam.  6010 root passes and 7018 cap all around the top and everywhere I could reach on the bottom.The other mount in the 2nd photo will go the same way soon.After that I relocate the filler necks from the oh-so-professional mounts they're currently installed it.  I think I'll notch the edge of the deck at a 45° angle so they have some slope to the filler neck and don't stick out where they can be busted off.The last shot is one of the vertical posts in the headache rack.  It's 2" tubing and it's burst from internal pressure.  The crack is in the corner and extends for a few inches.  I've never seen the like in a structural tube before.  Not sure if corrosion inside causes some kind of pressure buildup, or if somebody heated it after welding it shut?  Frankly I'm surprised it held any pressure at all given the crappy MIG welds I've seen elsewhere on the bed....So, Samm, don't feel bad.  You're not alone when it comes to trucks that need repair work... Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doSamm,How did you sneak over here to Ohio and take pictures of the bed and gooseneck hitch on my work truck?I'm not kidding, it looks like the same guy did the install on both beds.  And yes, I'll be following your work closely, and maybe even doing some of the same things at the same time.  Will take photos in a short while to show you I'm not kidding...
Reply:The last shot is one of the vertical posts in the headache rack. It's 2" tubing and it's burst from internal pressure. The crack is in the corner and extends for a few inches. I've never seen the like in a structural tube before. Not sure if corrosion inside causes some kind of pressure buildup, or if somebody heated it after welding it shut?
Reply:Anything is possible.  The top end is capped, but I've never looked closely at it.  Will Check later on.  'Course that means it must have almost filled completely with water...Next project...New Headache rack...sigh... Originally Posted by Oldiron2Amy chance that water got inside and froze?