All confused about TIG welding 1/8 aluminum...

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I finally got the local high school teacher to order me some 1/8 aluminum flat bars so that I could practice AC TIG welding.  I read up quite a bit on it and found a lot of conflicting information.  I read that you have to use the same size filler rod, I'm pretty sure I read on here that 1/8 is too big of a filler rod, some say use pure tungsten, some 2% thoriated, etc...   now I'm more confused then when I started.  Now I have to go shopping for the proper supplies so I can practice.Could I please get you guys' opinions on the following for TIG welding 1/8 aluminum:1.  Tungsten type (pure, 2% thoriated, other)2.  Tungsten electrode size3.  Tungsten preparation (balled end, sharp end, etc...)4.  Filler rod size5.  Recommended amperage.Thanks a lot in advance for any feedback.
Reply:3/32 Filler and 3/32 Tungsten, run DCEN, Pure Tungsten, Balled at about 60 to 80 amps. Can go into as much details as you want.  [email protected],GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:Originally Posted by weldgault3/32 Filler and 3/32 Tungsten, run DCEN, Pure Tungsten, Balled at about 60 to 80 amps. Can go into as much details as you want.  [email protected]
Reply:OMG, here we go again...1st, don't waste your time with pure tungsten, they are pretty much obsolete. I always use 2% thoriated, some prefer lanthanated or ceriated. My LWS only has thoriated. There really isn't any sense in balling the tungsten.Use AC, I would set the machine for about 130 amps and control the heat with the pedal. 60-80amps aint gonna do it.3/32 filler would work fine. I'd probably use 1/16 though, since I have a pile of it.Hey Weldgault, wanna explain why you woul reccomend pure tungsten for DCEN? That makes no sense at all. In fact, none of your post made sense.Last edited by Joe H; 10-11-2007 at 09:03 AM.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HOMG, here we go again...
Reply:I have to side with Joe H. You can do it on dcen, but you need helium to do it. If you want to easily weld on 1/8 aluminum, Set the machine for ac, set amps for 100-130, set the ac balance in the 65% area, or about 6 on the scale for cleaning. Use the regular red tungsten(2%) and sharpen the tip. 3/32 tungsten, 3/32 filler. Pure argon for your gas. And clean your aluminum- a quick swipe with a SS brush, not a steel one, and acetone wipe. Easy stuff once you get used to it.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloI have to side with Joe H. You can do it on dcen, but you need helium to do it. If you want to easily weld on 1/8 aluminum, Set the machine for ac, set amps for 100-130, set the ac balance in the 65% area, or about 6 on the scale for cleaning. Use the regular red tungsten(2%) and sharpen the tip. 3/32 tungsten, 3/32 filler. Pure argon for your gas. And clean your aluminum- a quick swipe with a SS brush, not a steel one, and acetone wipe. Easy stuff once you get used to it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HOMG, here we go again....
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HX1rider, I wasn't referring to your question. There is nothing wrong at all with asking questions. I can understand your confusion, especially after seeing the 2nd post in this thread.
Reply:Well, I'm definately no expert! When I said "OMG, here we go again" I was aggravated with Weldgault's answer. He seems to like to answer questions that he apparently has no idea about. He comes off like what he said is the gospel, and the rest of us are nuts. It appears that maybe he has read alot of info, but has very little real experience. Your question was fine. There is some difference of opinion about welding Al. Pure tungstens are still reccomended for transformer machines by some. This is old outdated info still lingering. Pure tungstens are pretty much worthless IMHO. Thoriated, ceriated, lanthanated, zirconated, all perform MUCH better on any machine. I've never welded Al with DCEN, so I don't know. I figure there must be a good reason guys pay out alot more cash for HF AC TIG welders though, instead of just buying DC machines.Last edited by Joe H; 10-11-2007 at 02:49 PM.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HWeldgault's answer- He seems to like to answer questions that he apparently has no idea about. He comes off like what he said is the gospel, and the rest of us are nuts. It appears that maybe he has read alot of info, but has very little real experience.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldgault3/32 Filler and 3/32 Tungsten, run DCEN, Pure Tungsten, Balled at about 60 to 80 amps. Can go into as much details as you want.  [email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderi think it's a typo- you wouldn't use a balled pure tungsten to weld with helium DCEN.i suspect weldgault meant use DCEP to ball the tungsten before welding with AC1. any type of tungsten will work. zirconiated is a good choice if using a transformer and a balled tungsten. thoriated will work sharpened (grind a small flat at the tip though) lanthanated works like thoriated but better. pure is old school- i wouldn't bother 2. 3/323. personally i think a balled zirconiated would be a good choice to begin with. the balled tip gives a softer arc, slows things down a little. thoriated doesn't ball well- sharpen to a point but leave a small flat at the tip (stops the tip melting off)4. either 1/16 or 3/32 will work fine. Al needs more filler to be added than steel so 3/32 will require less feeding5. 100-130 amps. size of coupon (Al's a good conductor- takes a lot heat to get things going and is part heats up less is required) and travel speed will affect thisyou will always find conflicting info- many ways to do most things and technology changes things toowith Al CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN! remove any grease dirt etc and then brush the weld area with a STAINLESS brush to remove the oxide. life will be a lot easier then
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloI have to side with Joe H. You can do it on dcen, but you need helium to do it. If you want to easily weld on 1/8 aluminum, Set the machine for ac, set amps for 100-130, set the ac balance in the 65% area, or about 6 on the scale for cleaning. Use the regular red tungsten(2%) and sharpen the tip. 3/32 tungsten, 3/32 filler. Pure argon for your gas. And clean your aluminum- a quick swipe with a SS brush, not a steel one, and acetone wipe. Easy stuff once you get used to it.
Reply:weld a few butt joints,  then extend the tungsten a bit and do some fillet welds.  doing fillets are harder, thus better practice.
Reply:After reading on this forum the number of recomendations for using thoriated tungsten for a/c welding on aluminum, I figured I'd give it a try even though it goes against what I had previously read in a text book.I only have one thing to say. Why was it that anyone wanted to use pure tungsten to begin with?Tighter arc fan quicker puddle and better penetration with thoriated.For anyone who has doubts, give it a tryDon't talk about it, Just do it!
Reply:Pure is old school.  When inverters came along, they said to use 2% sharpened.  Then it was used on sine wave machines too.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RPure is old school.  When inverters came along, they said to use 2% sharpened.  Then it was used on sine wave machines too.David
Reply:Originally Posted by x1riderI used 2% thoriated for AC aluminum.  I sharpen it but it doesn't take too long before the end gets balled up.  Do I just re-grind or do I keep going with the balled up end?  Thanks in advance.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloIt will naturally form a tiny ball on the end. I usually let it go, as it does not affect the arc shape enough for most welding. If I have a small spot to get, Like I need to get into a tight spot, I will regrind so the arc is narrowed a bit. And conversely, if you run a bunch of amps through it, you may get some tungsten splitting from time to time. If it happens a lot, go up one size on the tungsten.
Reply:It was mentioned before, but:Clean, Clean, Clean!SS wire brush and wipe with acetone... It makes a BIG difference! Me!
Reply:Originally Posted by x1riderI think I was getting splitting because it wasn't a nice round ball. The arc seemed to still be under pretty good control though.   Maybe I'll try one size up then.
Reply:Just to see the difference, I tried with a 1/16 electrode and seemed to notice more "splitting", is this normal?
Reply:Originally Posted by x1riderJust to see the difference, I tried with a 1/16 electrode and seemed to notice more "splitting", is this normal?
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderyes! the more heat you have (amps and/or %EP) the bigger the tungsten needs to be to withstand the heat without melting or spliting.you shouldn't need bigger than a 3/32 for 1/8" Al but a 1/16 is too small to surviveI always use 2% or cerated.  I was REdoing a job for a fellow (OK, my dad) and it was a mess.  I turned the cleaning up to 60%.  I balled 1/8" 2% thorated and some 1/8" cerated.  Cut the cleaning back to 50% and the balling went away.  I showed the tungsten to the guys at Zaps class.  Like said above, the more + electrode, the more it wants to ball.  This was all at 100 to 150 amps.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Just to add weight to most of the replies.I usually use 2% Zirconiated (white tipped in Oz) for ally Tig and 2% Thoriated (red tipped in Oz) for Stainless.I always use AC on ally.Having said that if the machine has a red in it I don't bother changing it , I find the whites hold a ball a bit better but it is only marginal .I use 2.4mm  (3/16 ?) 99% of the time, certainly for 1/16 to 3/16, 1/4 I would up to 1/8 electrode ( but only if it was close by  )Operator skill, experience  and cleaning will have far more impact on the quality and appearance of the weld than the composition of electrode.A good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:I should add I have used Lanthanated Tungsten electrodes, and find them a good all rounderA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:I use 1.5% Lanthanated and like it, it works well on everything.  Me!