Joining I/H beams together

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Howdy all, first time here on the Weldin' Web.  Brief intro: recently discharged vet, started working in the steel erection business after burning, no, consuming, some GI bill to go to welding school.  I'm AWS D1.1 certified and I've been laid off for a few weeks now and as such have been practicing pipe (in the hopes of getting more and better paying work) and catching up on my favors list for friends.This post is about one of them favors... (any grammar police... go away)So there I was... (gotta start this story off right)So there I was in the junkyard, scrounging parts for my truck because it's pretty rare that you find a 7.3 in the junkyard that hasn't been completely gutted of all the good stuff.  At the top of the yard, they had a pile of what looked to be 8 or 10 inch I beams, 10 feet long, with roughly 6-inch wide top and bottom.  Anyone versed in the proper terminology please set me right and I'll learn a thing or two.  Talked to my friend who works at the yard... I can have the beams for the value of the scrap weight... awesome, that's cheap... helluva lot cheaper than buying new beams.Anyhow, a friend of mine is going to be removing a couple load-bearing walls in his house to make a large and open downstairs room, and this essentially is going to come down to putting a steel span in that will take the load.  Now, I've got an engineering background, and hopefully one day I'll go back to finish the degree, but I haven't BEGUN to calculate what loads are involved, and what kind of beam we're talking to carry that load across a roughly 30 foot span.  I'm going to consult with a competent engineer (my cousin... she's a civil bridge engineer, with a stamp) to see what kind of loads we have for that span, and what size steel will cut the mustard.Here are my assumptions (and only assumptions) at this point:  the steel in the scrapyard will be more than adequate, and that two welded butt joints properly done will keep the rated strength of that size steel beam, minus whatever the engineers say a welded joint will.  The question I have is how to properly prep the ends to make my long beam.  I will be going for 100% penetration, 6010 to tack and root, 7018 flat position (since I'll be able to turn the beam) for all other passes up to the cap.  Now, can I simply bevel each end of the beam to 22.5-30 degrees with a torch, and then go about welding in the V-groove and put a nice 1/8" cap on it?  Or, will I have to cut the ends in a particular shape and then butt them together?  What's the proper and acceptable way of welding shorter beams together?  Is the heat-affected zone an issue, and does that lower the total rating of the finished beam as opposed to a fresh, continuous beam of the proper length?I've never dealt with making a longer beam from shorter beams, as all that stuff is determined and made with the fabrication shop before it hits the job.  I just figure if I can get this steel for such a cheap price, not only will it be easier to transport on my car hauler dual axle trailer, it'll save my friend a sizable amount of loot, and he'll give me a sizable amount of beer and beer money in return.
Reply:You're in Way Over Your Head.Go back to school and get that degree in Civil Engineering and you'll realize how ridiculous your "half baked" questions are.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Wow, ummm, ok.  What exactly am I in over my head with?  I'm leaving the engineering to the engineers.  All I want to know is what the acceptable methods are for joining I-beams together end-to-end.  This is just theoretical at this point, because I'm not even making the assumption that the steel is of the appropriate size for the job... but I can tell you this, getting a solid one-piece beam up to his remote house is going to make this project far more difficult, and as such, using multiple shorter pieces has its merits.Care to enlighten me why this can't be done?  If having two welded joints on a span this long is just simply not the right way to go about the job, just tell me but I'd appreciate knowing why rather than a load full of "go f**k off."
Reply:It would seem to me that anyone with an "engineering background" would at least know the different termonology when referring to an I-beam (web, flange), rather than the top and bottom....If you do a search, this near exact same issue was discussed in length in a previous thread.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:those beams wont span 30 feet with no load. they'll sag several inches under their own weight. you need a truss-beam.miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:If using the proper sized beams, welded connections with reinforcing plates could be used, or bolted connections. Engineers usually place a column under splice points but they can engineer a joint that can free span. I would have your cousin do some calcs and come up with what you need before anything is bought.
Reply:Originally Posted by boatbuoythose beams wont span 30 feet with no load. they'll sag several inches under their own weight. you need a truss-beam.
Reply:I'd like to help you, but I don't know where to start. I spent a life time splicing beams. That doesn't mean I can tell you how to do it via the Internet. Which would help you the most pictures, drawings? Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:So I guess you weren't serious about learning how to splice beams. Ah it's really not that hard, you'll figure it out. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Spliceing is not much of a problem, but like the man says those beams wont hold there own weight straight at 30 ft. You are probably going to need 24 inch high beams at 30 ft. and not junior I beams. your life will be better, your income higher and much satisfaction will come from getting that degree in engineering  Mac