Tig - Fillet Weld

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Any advice on attacking a fillet weld?  Everytime I try; its hard to get in the corner of the plates; and when I do - seems that the arc wanders and i bit of filler everywhere.  A real mess. Do I have to  choose a side and then somehow get the filler rod to puddle in the crevice?Any advice or resources would be appreciated!thanks!AcademyKP03Miller Sychcrowave 200
Reply:I know what you mean..You need to build the "bridge"Start with the heat on the bottom plate..Your table is one big heat sink..Get the bottom piece good and hot untill the shiney puddle starts...Then aim the torch at the top piece and do the same..You need to go back and forth between the two untill the shiney puddle is on both pieces then add a dip of filler and get it to go betwen the two puddles..Feed it in from the top and let gravity do its thing..Once the "bridge" is in place then your good to go..Yup its a pain at times but you'll get it.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Yup, what Zap said...It kinda sounds like you might try cranking up the heat a little too.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Roger - - thanks for the advice.I'll try it out and post picsThanks againAcademyKP03Miller Sychcrowave 200
Reply:So i'm add filler from the top and not the side right?  Am I supposed to go from right to left?  Like I've been doing with my practice beads on flat stock?I tried going from the side -- and it was like the arc keep getting in the way.  I'll see how add the filler from the top works ....AcademyKP03Miller Sychcrowave 200
Reply:Also, if you can, put a weight, or clamp the 2 pieces together while you are getting started. Sometimes, the arc can spread the gap, making the initial tack tough to get going.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:If you're welding mild steel, I found it easiest to use a very sharp point on the tungsten to focus the arc in the joint.Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:Yesterday I spent the better part of an hour attempting to get the "bridge" formed; but it just seemed like I was doing something wrong.  I started on the bottom, formed a puddle - then I would switch to the other wide; and formed a puddle -- and then I don't know where to go after that .. do I keep putting the arc on the bottom puddle and then go to the top puddle; back and forth?  and attempted to put the filler from the top didn't seem to work, neither did putting the filler from the left side .....  Does the arc ever go right in the crevice?  Is the idea to just get the filler to kinda of pool in the joint?  Any more advice would be welcome; thanks.AcademyKP03Miller Sychcrowave 200
Reply:Crank up the heat! Turn it up around 10 amps. Learn to use that pedal.Once you get the 2 pieces joined you can just push the puddle right down the center. It's easy after that.No, you don't want the filler to just pool in the joint. You have to puddle the puddle to melt it. NEVER melt the filler with the arc.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:You're either not running enough amperage, or your arc length is too long.  You need to gradually transition from the lower plate to the top so the base material wets out into the top plate, don't just skip across the joint quickly.
Reply:What do you mean, push the puddle?  From above?  Or the side?  I have no problem getting the puddle started on either side; its what to do after I get the puddle formed. I attached some pics to show you where I'm at.Hope it helps  =) Attached ImagesAcademyKP03Miller Sychcrowave 200
Reply:Also - on a last note; I switched back to 2% red / from pure tungsten; believe it improved my welds (although, hard to believe looking at my pictures)Should I be on balance around 6.0?Pulse?Thanks for any guidance!AcademyKP03Miller Sychcrowave 200
Reply:2 things i gotta ask?How thick is the material?. And how many amps?¤If you got money, i've got time
Reply:Originally Posted by HGHS-Corp2 things i gotta ask?How thick is the material?. And how many amps?
Reply:Originally Posted by HGHS-Corp2 things i gotta ask?How thick is the material?. And how many amps?
Reply:I would try just using a "fuse" type weld to start with and get a feel for melting the two pieces together....and then once you get a good looking weld there.......then start adding the filler rod.  That is how I taught myself and it seemed to speed things along......others might not agree...but to each his own.Best Times with 434 Naturally Aspirated Vette60 - 1.261/8 -  6.37@ 107.25 MPH 1/4 - 10.08 & 134.9MPH1/4 - 9.60@144MPH
Reply:Originally Posted by ski_dwn_itI would try just using a "fuse" type weld to start with and get a feel for melting the two pieces together....and then once you get a good looking weld there.......then start adding the filler rod.  That is how I taught myself and it seemed to speed things along......others might not agree...but to each his own.
Reply:First off, turn the pulser off, and leave it off.  Forget about the wave balance as well, it's not going to make enough of a difference, and there's no point d*cking with the machine until the fundamentals are down.I think you're misinterpreting what it means to form a pool on the bottom, and the whole push thing.  Start out with your tungsten point just fractions of an inch more towards the bottom of the plate than the top.  Just enough so that it doesn't begin to burn the top plate away while getting a puddle to form.You want to see the bottom plate almost where the two pieces meet just turn shiney and liquidous.  In all honesty, you should be able to just sit and hold that puddle there.  For practice, move it around a bit, that puddle should look the same regardless of where you move the tungsten, nice, shiny and focused.Once you've got that puddle on the bottom plate just sitting there, creep the arc up to where the two plates meet.  Again, we're only talking fractions of an inch here.  When done right, you'll see both pieces of material just suck together, with that nice, shiny pool now sitting in the root of the joint.  Like ski_dwn_it said, practice with no filler, just getting this little shiny molten pool to fuse both pieces the entire way down.You want to work on keeping this puddle no more than maybe 3/16ths of an inch on either side of the plate for beginners.  If you have to feather the pedal to do so, that's fine, back off the heat some.  When they say push the weld, it really only indicates the direction of travel.  If you're right handed, you want to start from the right side of the plate with the torch angled so that the tungsten points slightly left.  As you weld from right to left along the plate, you add your filler in from the left side.  In other words, you want to add the filler to where the arc is being "pushed" rather than dragged.  Don't angle the tungsten to the left and travel to the right pulling the arc behind you and trying to add metal that way.
Reply:Thanks for the advice; that was very informative and clear.  I'm going to turn off wave balance and pulse and focus on getting the "correct" puddle formed.  I know for a fact, that my arc is too far away -- and I think, to make up for the distance, i'm really cranking down on the pedal. thanks againAcademyKP03Miller Sychcrowave 200
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeFirst off, turn the pulser off, and leave it off.  Forget about the wave balance as well, it's not going to make enough of a difference, and there's no point d*cking with the machine until the fundamentals are down.I think you're misinterpreting what it means to form a pool on the bottom, and the whole push thing.  Start out with your tungsten point just fractions of an inch more towards the bottom of the plate than the top.  Just enough so that it doesn't begin to burn the top plate away while getting a puddle to form.You want to see the bottom plate almost where the two pieces meet just turn shiney and liquidous.  In all honesty, you should be able to just sit and hold that puddle there.  For practice, move it around a bit, that puddle should look the same regardless of where you move the tungsten, nice, shiny and focused.Once you've got that puddle on the bottom plate just sitting there, creep the arc up to where the two plates meet.  Again, we're only talking fractions of an inch here.  When done right, you'll see both pieces of material just suck together, with that nice, shiny pool now sitting in the root of the joint.  Like ski_dwn_it said, practice with no filler, just getting this little shiny molten pool to fuse both pieces the entire way down.You want to work on keeping this puddle no more than maybe 3/16ths of an inch on either side of the plate for beginners.  If you have to feather the pedal to do so, that's fine, back off the heat some.  When they say push the weld, it really only indicates the direction of travel.  If you're right handed, you want to start from the right side of the plate with the torch angled so that the tungsten points slightly left.  As you weld from right to left along the plate, you add your filler in from the left side.  In other words, you want to add the filler to where the arc is being "pushed" rather than dragged.  Don't angle the tungsten to the left and travel to the right pulling the arc behind you and trying to add metal that way.
Reply:Believe it or not, that's probably from not enough heat.You want the puddle to form instantly, or very near instantly. You have to work fast. Once you get the first puddle joining the two pieces back off the pedal a hair. You really need to get to the point that you control the amperage with the pedal without even thinking about it.My suggestion is to practice with steel until you get a real good feel for it.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HBelieve it or not, that's probably from not enough heat.You want the puddle to form instantly, or very near instantly. You have to work fast. Once you get the first puddle joining the two pieces back off the pedal a hair. You really need to get to the point that you control the amperage with the pedal without even thinking about it.My suggestion is to practice with steel until you get a real good feel for it.
Reply:Academy, you don't more heat, 120A is fine for 1/8" aluminium. your arc length is still too long- the puddle(s) in the last pics were miles away from the root (were the pieces meet). the longer the arc length the less 'focused' the heat- you're putting heat into the piece BUT not focused where you need iti think you're maybe trying to 'run before you can walk'. if you're new to TIG the learning curve will be much easier if you stay with steel until manipulation of the torch,filler and pedal become almost second nature. steel is far more forgiving of technique/cleanliness so overall, you'll learn faster if you begin with steel and progress to Al once competant with steeleither way have a good read here, http://www.millerwelds.com/education...tips/TIG_tips/pay particular attention to the torch/filler angles for different joints. despite what the article says regarding arc length, 1/8" is about the max you want- 1/4" is too longLast edited by hotrodder; 12-05-2007 at 06:52 PM.
Reply:AcademyKP03,Your welds are way to hot and huge.Particularly with aluminum, because the heat conducts away so fast, you need to keep the arc very, very, concentrated at the root of the joint.  The root of the joint is where the plates are touching each other, this is where you need concentrated heat to melt them together.You need the tip of the tungsten as close as you can get to root.  This "arc gap" should be probably no more than 1/8", closer if you can do it without dipping or hitting the tunsten with the wire.When the tungsten is closer, the arc is smaller in diameter, so the energy to the joint is more concentrated in a smaller spot.  Point at the root, slightly angled toward the bottom plate, to give more heat to the bottom, since it's the top plate that tends to melt away easy.Do not weave, travel straight down the joint.No side to side, no circles, no nothing, straight down the joint at a constant arc length, constant speed, constant torch angle.Since aluminum conducts heat so fast, you need to hit it hot and hit it fast.  The more you lolly-gag around, starting out cold, weaving, trying to bridge up one side and the other, traveling slow, etc., the more the heat is spreading out into the plate, building up and leading to a big fat weld and a burn-thru.  Hit it hot, melt the root, dab some filler to help bridge the joint, and go.You need a clean fresh tungsten tip, once you dip, stop and regrind, the arc is too spread out with a crapped up tungsten.  If your machine will hold a sharpened tip, great, but if your machine balls the tungsten, just try to keep the ball small.  Get rid of the pure tungsten and go with Ceriated, Lantanated, or Thoriated, any one of these with carry more current before melting.
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserAcademyKP03,Since aluminum conducts heat so fast, you need to hit it hot and hit it fast.  The more you lolly-gag around, starting out cold, weaving, trying to bridge up one side and the other, traveling slow, etc., the more the heat is spreading out into the plate, building up and leading to a big fat weld and a burn-thru.  Hit it hot, melt the root, dab some filler to help bridge the joint, and go..Here is a video i made last year tig welding a t joint on 1/8" Al. It's really blurry since i have no special equipment just digital camera and hood to put in front of it. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0   This picture may help show proper travel and work angle. That weld in the picture is 1/4 AL with 100% helium on Dc- with 1/4 filler. Just for fun http://ferris.facebook.com/photo.php...-1&id=40012021 --Gol'
Reply:Originally Posted by AcademyKP033rd try - - turned down amps to 120pulsed @ 10Seems like its getting better ..... still aways to go ....Attached latest progress
Reply:Excellent thread...jam packed full of great advice.  Listen to these guys Academy...they know what they're talking about...
Reply:This has been excellent help for me as well. Thank you. Some additional questions if I may steal this thread. My setup: Welding 1/8 aluminum. AC, 120amps (no pulse or balance), pure tungsten, pure argon, Miller dynasty 200. Two general questions:1. Cleaning - Before I weld, I brush the area vigorously with a clean stainless steel brush. Should I do anything else?2. I have problems getting the arc started. When I first start with a freshly cut tip, it starts ok. I usually have the tip about 1/16-3/32 away from the work. After a short while of starting an arc 1-3 times, I have trouble starting the arc again. The arc often will not even start. If it does start, it flashes all around. I push the pedal all the way down and sometimes it goes, sometimes not. I end up cutting off the tip and starting again. This seems to fix it. Is this normal?
Reply:Originally Posted by pofoThis has been excellent help for me as well. Thank you. Some additional questions if I may steal this thread. My setup: Welding 1/8 aluminum. AC, 120amps (no pulse or balance), pure tungsten, pure argon, Miller dynasty 200. Two general questions:1. Cleaning - Before I weld, I brush the area vigorously with a clean stainless steel brush. Should I do anything else?2. I have problems getting the arc started. When I first start with a freshly cut tip, it starts ok. I usually have the tip about 1/16-3/32 away from the work. After a short while of starting an arc 1-3 times, I have trouble starting the arc again. The arc often will not even start. If it does start, it flashes all around. I push the pedal all the way down and sometimes it goes, sometimes not. I end up cutting off the tip and starting again. This seems to fix it. Is this normal?
Reply:Originally Posted by pofoThis has been excellent help for me as well. Thank you. Some additional questions if I may steal this thread. My setup: Welding 1/8 aluminum. AC, 120amps (no pulse or balance), pure tungsten, pure argon, Miller dynasty 200. Two general questions:1. Cleaning - Before I weld, I brush the area vigorously with a clean stainless steel brush. Should I do anything else?2. I have problems getting the arc started. When I first start with a freshly cut tip, it starts ok. I usually have the tip about 1/16-3/32 away from the work. After a short while of starting an arc 1-3 times, I have trouble starting the arc again. The arc often will not even start. If it does start, it flashes all around. I push the pedal all the way down and sometimes it goes, sometimes not. I end up cutting off the tip and starting again. This seems to fix it. Is this normal?
Reply:This is brilliant! Thank you both for excellent advise. Donald, you said "the flashing could be the arc wandering all around inside the cup off of tiny little particles inside the cup looking for a ground"Indeed, the cup tip is covered with a fine metal coating. Do I need to clean that off and if so, how? I've tried cleaning it up and it seems to be petty well bonded to the cup. Hotrodder,Yes, sometimes I get the puddle where it seems to slag up with the black crud. I will try your advise on playing with the settings. Hopefully, the welding store is open today and I can get the other tungsten fomulations before they close.
Reply:You are improving, all the advice above is good.  Think a 1/8" fillet for 1/8" plate.  you have at least a 3/4" fillet.  The tungsten needs to be as close to the work as you can get it.  If you touch the work or filler even once, resharpen.  As you get better, the resharpening will be less often.  When I start a job, I have 4 or 5 pre sharpened tungstens ready.  If its a big job (days) I have 10 or 20 ready to go.  Looking better.  Your beads look great.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Like David said, have lots of sharp tungsten on hand, I always sharpen the whole box when I buy new tungsten and if I foul one I re-sharpen as I'm cleaning up for the day so that I always have planty of sharp ones to choose from.I would also go buy some steel and some steel filler to practice with, I taght myself to tig with .120 plate and found that it's much easier to learn how to "build the bridge" with steel, especially since you see how hot it is based on color, just practice builing the bridge, then do a couple dips after that, and repeat. Once you have steel masted it's much eaier to make the jump to alluminum.