Titanium

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Just wondering....has anyone here ever done any titanium welding?Do you really know all of the work that goes into getting that fish onto your plate?
Reply:I have..It welds like stainless.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:It helps to use a gas lense to better protect the weld. It seems ot oxidize worse than stainless. This is not required just helpful. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:yes ive welded titanium.do you have any questions?6G zirconium 702 GTAW 2" xxheavy6G P.E.D. carbon steel GTAW 2" xxheavy3G titanium Gr. 2 - Gr. 7 GTAW up to 3/4" 3G 316L stainless GTAW up to 1" 3G carbon steel GTAW up to 1" 3G Hastalloy GTAW up to 3/4"1G tantalum GTAW up to .060"
Reply:I also weld titanium tantalum zirconium almost every day got questions just ask. Any particular grade your interested in?
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI have..It welds like stainless.....zap!
Reply:If when you're  done ,you have a blue or purple color on the weld , it's no good . Done right, it should have a shiny chrome look , or like clean stainless steel color on the weld bead.[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:The trick to welding titanium is to have a steady hand and precise movements. If you miss the puddle at all the rod sticks like crazy. No other metal that I have found does this. At some temperature just below melting the metal pieces and filler rod becomes very sticky like superman flytrap glue.
Reply:I've welded very thin Ti mostly.  Like Mark said, boy is it sure sticky.  Thin material also gets EXTREMELY brittle if not backpurged.  It is certainly some neat stuff to work with though.
Reply:Generally with titanium, if you see "pretty colors" on the weldment (ie: heat induced oxidation from insufficient shielding), your titanium is ruined.Done right, it should all look like plain clean metal.
Reply:clean clean clean....   also very important for welding titanium.-----------------------Carmen Electrodewww.CarmenElectrode.comand the boss blogs at  www.JoeWelder.comall powered by  www.Arc-Zone.com
Reply:welded it in school in 1961 or so. we had a cabinet that looked like a blasting cabinet--you put steel plates over the glove holes and pulled a vacuum,then filled the cabinet with argon or helium so you could uncover the glove holes.then you could use your tig torch with bare electrode--no nozzle or gas required as the whole cabinet was full .
Reply:Shielding gas coverage is very important as any area of the Titanium that is exposed to ambient air when the temperature of the material is above 900 degrees fahrenheit with out gas coverage will absorb nitrogen causing embrittlement. Also keep your filler rod in the gas coverage area at all times.The following are some fittings I machined and welded that were made out of 6AL-4V Titanium.
Reply:Originally Posted by PropulsionShielding gas coverage is very important as any area of the Titanium that is exposed to ambient air when the temperature of the material is above 900 degrees fahrenheit with out gas coverage will absorb nitrogen causing embrittlement. Also keep your filler rod in the gas coverage area at all times.The following are some fittings I machined and welded that were made out of 6AL-4V Titanium.
Reply:Originally Posted by PropulsionThe following are some fittings I machined and welded that were made out of 6AL-4V Titanium.
Reply:We all got to run 2 beads each on a Ti slug, a remnant donated by a buddy of the teacher. That slug was about 5 or 6 inches in diameter and nearly an inch thick. My beads were such a pretty purple color!   Check titanium off the list...next!  Propulsion, those are beautiful!City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by jeverichJust wondering....has anyone here ever done any titanium welding?
Reply:Titanium is in a class of its own. If you take the time to learn how to adjust heat, speed of travel, filler rod,angle of torch, Then you can get a perfect color/contour/penetration. Its AMAZING!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrI noticed that the rod ionized the air. Causing it to gyrate around. I have had something similar a couple times with aluminum. But nothing near the titanium and wire I was welding with. It was an aluminum alloy titanium, and I did not like the way it welded. You really have to preheat the metal before you start welding. At least this alloy.One day I would like to try some pure titanium just to see the difference. One day I could of and I had to much to do and I missed out.I would get a custom giant two inch gas lens if I had to do it everyday. And backup gas.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverWe all got to run 2 beads each on a Ti slug, a remnant donated by a buddy of the teacher. That slug was about 5 or 6 inches in diameter and nearly an inch thick. My beads were such a pretty purple color!   Check titanium off the list...next!  Propulsion, those are beautiful!
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverWe all got to run 2 beads each on a Ti slug, a remnant donated by a buddy of the teacher. That slug was about 5 or 6 inches in diameter and nearly an inch thick. My beads were such a pretty purple color!   Check titanium off the list...next!  Propulsion, those are beautiful!
Reply:Nice machining (& welding)!I worked for Aeroquip, Aerospace for a number of years and programmed/machined a %&^$load of those type's of fittings!
Reply:Originally Posted by PropulsionSorry, pics did not go thru the first time.
Reply:not sur what you guys are welding ti but for all titanium tantalum hastelloy zirconium etc. you need a trailing cup. ive welded lots of heat exchangers made out of titanium.  to be up to code and a pure weld it needs to be basically a chrome color.6G zirconium 702 GTAW 2" xxheavy6G P.E.D. carbon steel GTAW 2" xxheavy3G titanium Gr. 2 - Gr. 7 GTAW up to 3/4" 3G 316L stainless GTAW up to 1" 3G carbon steel GTAW up to 1" 3G Hastalloy GTAW up to 3/4"1G tantalum GTAW up to .060"
Reply:this should provoke some interesting comments http://www.arcfabrication.com/images/DSC0002610.JPGHotrodder, I was thinking the same I've seen an awful lot of Trick and expensive parts made for Cars and Bikes both Track and Road that have the colours within the weld area.Now I'm reading this is a poor quality weld I'm confused
Reply:The shop i weld in doesnt allow any color darker than a light straw if its dark or discolored Your in for a chewing,and some grinding also. The jobs we do all have back purge with aluminum foil or Titanium discs that are aluminum taped on and heavily back purged. Ive seen it done differently but Ive also seen what happens when its done wrong. I have repaired alot of chemical tanks where the only problem is the weld,the chemicals attack the weld seams and i get to go and grind them out and reweld them with tipladium,its a nasty job.If you would like i can show you pics of how to set a good purge system. I just have to remember a camera.
Reply:Originally Posted by mtncrawlerNice machining (& welding)!I worked for Aeroquip, Aerospace for a number of years and programmed/machined a %&^$load of those type's of fittings!
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrThey look good. I have not fusion welded titanium. However I believe because of its tenacity it would lend itself to fusion welding.I have machined titanium, and some of the manganese titanium was so tuff you cannot band saw it. It was so tuff that surface grind marks that were pushed against steel shoes, did not rub or wear down. Just the little ridges left by the grind stood up against the steel. Amazing.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by Shox DrHotrodder, I was thinking the same I've seen an awful lot of Trick and expensive parts made for Cars and Bikes both Track and Road that have the colours within the weld area.Now I'm reading this is a poor quality weld I'm confused
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomPure titanium?There are 13 grades of titanium. the first 3 are commercial grades. Kind of brittle.The 6AL4v6 is the middle grade and prefered for bicycles because it is not so prone to cracking. It is more ductile. But the 3 maunufacturers do not make some tubing sizes in this grade due to insuffcient demand.A titanium weld should look like chrome,glass smooth. if it is discolored it was exposed to oxygen. It is simular to welding stainless but smoother surface.When welding titanium tubing where there is no drafts the shielding gas will flow right around the round tube.Welding filler wire selection is covered by ANSI/AWS A5.16-90If you need any info, I have that booklet. just post or leave private email.
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderthis should provoke some interesting comments http://www.arcfabrication.com/images/DSC0002610.JPG
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrI believe it is called commercially wrought titanium. Or was.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeYou'd be amazed if you saw how poorly some "professional" products were welded.Like B2N3, anything other than shiny silver or a golden straw color was an automatic reject for us.
Reply:if that had a spear in the middle of it i would use it to move round hay bales lolwhat is it hotrodder?G3miller... 225g, s32p, 250x, 304, 12vs, MSW41     victor o/a thermal dynamics cutmaster 50 lenco panel spotter        hobart hf-boxG3 Farms.....raising cattle, hay, kids and hell, ...oh yeah I'm a fire sprinkler contractor by trade.
Reply:it's a motorbike swingarm, as suggested a couple of posts ago. 'nice' is not the term i'd expected though.if the last part of the address is deleted the link will take you to the website
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomThe color of the weld does not mean the quality is poor.The oxide colors are produced at around 975º when there is any reduction going on.Like different colors from differing amounts of reduction. Could be from machining or cutting oils, not necessarily in the weld zone but within a couple inches of the weld getting hot and reducing the area.If you are welding stainless for example stainless melts at around 2500ºso as it is cooling hot metal a couple inches away could get up to 975º and the smoke (reduction material) could drift over the weld area after it is welded and produce those rainbow colors. You will notice that the smaller the weldment the more likely the weld will look silver or gold and have no reds or blues.That is because there is no material producing any reducing (burning) material in the area. This can go on for several minutes after welding. It could even be something on the table you sit the weldment on. Anything that could burn.If you take a small stainless tooth brush and brush the weld after has cooledit will look silver. The colors are just oxides on the surface. the same as with Raku ceramics. There can be beautiful reduction colors on copper,steel etc.,.Now those oxides are being used in the electronics industry.
Reply:Supe if i were to classify any materials with Ti .I would have to say zirconium and tantalum are the 2 closest. Clean for Ti is scotch brite first 2inches from the weld area or seam. then cleaned with acetone which isnt the greatest i would rather use mek. It doesnt weld the same as stainless to me,i weld ti totally different. We use #12 cups with large gas lenses and the gas regulated between 15 and 30 cfh and trailing shields 30-50cfh. How do you prep Ti Supe? Do you make up your own trailing shields?
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeStainless and Ti are two different beasts.  If you have ANY cutting oil, cross contamination, you name it, and have discoloration as the result of it, you've got issues.  Cleanliness is the number one priority when working with Ti, and in virtually every environment I've been exposed to it, anything other than a golden straw color or bright silver without any post-weld cosmetic touchup is an automatic failure.
Reply:Originally Posted by PropulsionDonald,You are misinformed on the attributes and proper welding procedures for Titanium. Removing the surface oxidation with a brush does not change the fact that the material as absorb nitrogen causing embrittlement. Supe is right, every Titanium welding specification that I have ever worked with has a picture chart criteria for visual inspection and acceptance or rejection. I have also seen Titanium parts on motorcycles that were discolored I don't know why that is other than the engineers must have decided that the embrittlement condition in the material on those applications will not cause a fit or function problem. I can confirm this conditon is not acceptable in the Aircraft and Aerospace industries.
Reply:Originally Posted by B2N3 WelderSupe if i were to classify any materials with Ti .I would have to say zirconium and tantalum are the 2 closest. Clean for Ti is scotch brite first 2inches from the weld area or seam. then cleaned with acetone which isnt the greatest i would rather use mek. It doesnt weld the same as stainless to me,i weld ti totally different. We use #12 cups with large gas lenses and the gas regulated between 15 and 30 cfh and trailing shields 30-50cfh. How do you prep Ti Supe? Do you make up your own trailing shields?
Reply:just as a point of interest the reason Ti is so expensive is not because it's a rare element (9th most abundant on earth?), but because it's so easily contaminated it's extremely awkward (read expensive) to refine. the kroll process is briefly explained in the link below, note the sacrifice of magnesium (expensive in itself) during refinementhow many of us use a pencil to do layout work? do that with Ti and you leave a potential source of carbon for the formation of TiC here's hoping that something fruitfull comes of this (then maybe i'll be able to afford/justify using the stuff)... http://www.techreview.com/Biztech/16963/B2N3, Supe, Propulsion or anyone working with Ti regularly. any chance of some numbers to quantify 'embrittlement' for different levels of discolouration?the only data i've found compared CP Ti welded within a chamber to welded with just torch shielding- the (relatively) poorly shielded weld exhibited 25% the strength of the parent plate. as said the strength reduction wouldn't be an issue for a select few applications but, as i understand it, with Ti embrittlement comes EXTREME notch sensitivity
Reply:Hotrodder I dont have any numbers for embrittlement,or discoloration clarification either.They have been in the Ti fab business since the early 60's they could probably tell me but ive never asked.Im sure they had issues in the beginning,but there policy is no color,clean 2 inches around surfaces being welded and the backing plates we use are TI also.We also use diffusers in our backing plates .I will see what our engineers have to say on the subject.
Reply:I have Ti headers for a cbr 929 laying around in the garage for the last 7yrs I wonder what i should do with them???
Reply:Originally Posted by WANNAWELDI have Ti headers for a cbr 929 laying around in the garage for the last 7yrs I wonder what i should do with them???
Reply:Originally Posted by B2N3 WelderHotrodder I dont have any numbers for embrittlement,or discoloration clarification either.They have been in the Ti fab business since the early 60's they could probably tell me but ive never asked.Im sure they had issues in the beginning,but there policy is no color,clean 2 inches around surfaces being welded and the backing plates we use are TI also.We also use diffusers in our backing plates .I will see what our engineers have to say on the subject.
Reply:Where are you at, welder155?  I currently work for an outfit that makes heat exchangers.  We have a few exchangers on the floor that have some titanium parts. Originally Posted by welder155not sur what you guys are welding ti but for all titanium tantalum hastelloy zirconium etc. you need a trailing cup. ive welded lots of heat exchangers made out of titanium.  to be up to code and a pure weld it needs to be basically a chrome color.