frame repair?

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I have a 1989 1500 4x4 Chevy Silverado. I bought this truck for $1200 when i turned 16 cause my parents wanted me to drive a mini van. I drove it for 3 years till i bought my new truck. I could no longer pull a trailer with it because the frame was so rotten where the trailer hitch bolts up. I just picked up a rear frame for cheap. The first place there is good metal is right between the front spring hanger and rear spring hanger. How should i make the splice? Should it be straight or angled. I want to get this done so i can give my little brother the truck for his 16ish birthday. He is already asking to borrow my brand new truck. I said when you can buy me a new one feel free to do what ever you want to it. Thanks guys
Reply:Let me be the first one to tell you this. Don't try to repair it, unless you really don't like your little brother. I've been welding for 25 years (certified) and even I would ditch the truck before trying to repair it. There are literally thousands of older full size trucks (with good frames) around here for sale cheap. It's just not worth the risk and liability to attempt a repair you're suggesting on a 20 year old truck. If the drivetrain is good, keep it and find a good body / frame to put it in. Probably just as easy labor wise as repairing the frame on the current one.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:I agree. This is not a job for you if you have to ask the question.Can it be done, probably yes by someone who is qualified and knows what they are doing. A good collision repair facility for example. I'm betting they would probably be as likely to want to replace it with a new/ good condition used frame as to try and weld it up.Ask your self this question, IF the your brother is involved in an accident and is seriously injured/killed, are you willing to live with the possibility that you may have contributed to his condition? If the frame had been intact/original would it have made a difference, and how would you truly know? Think this is BS, ask anyone who was driving and has lost a loved one in an accident if they don't feel responsible in some way for what happened, and if they don't lie awake at night thinking about it from time to time.I'm not sure I would want that sort of responsibility hanging over my head..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:This is an on going argument on many forums, this guy shortened his wheel base and did a fantastic write up on it http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=123624 .  I am using it as a rough guide while I shorten my 91 4x4 chevy from an extended cab shortbed to a short cab short bed.  There are several key things to keep in mind but here are just a few.IMPORTANT--->I'm only an engineering STUDENT, and my truck is a weekend play rig not a daily driver so DO NOT consider me an expert.- Avoid vertical cuts/welds as much as possible, these are major shear points on a frame and any HAZ going in the up-down direction becomes a place where cracks will surface( I will be using a modified version of what this guy did, instead of a down-flat-down cut I will be doing angle-flat-angle)-Reinforce the joint!!!!! (boxing the frame like I will be doing, fish plate, or even just a piece of C-channel that will fit snug and overlap the welded section by a good margin,etc, etc)-Commercial grade welder is a must have for the job (those 110 buggers just don't put out enough)-weigh all the above, advice from friends, and the highly knowledgeable people on this board, and if it feels wrong, go find a decent frame in the junkyard for 300 bucks and swap everything out.  It may cost a little more in time and money, but family members are more expensive to replace in the long run.  It all really comes down to how comfortable you are in your abilities and the process as a whole.Last edited by Swampy79; 11-05-2009 at 08:09 PM.looking at new trucks while carrying two car seats around the parking lot to "test fit".......humiliating.
Reply:ok im not trying to be a jerk i wanted to learn and have learned alot by reading but when it comes to ask questions i always get just dont do it. I wont be doing the welding besides lining everything up and tacking it in place loading it on the trailer with a forklift. I have a good friend that owns a automated press shop machine shop and he does chassis fabrication for funny cars and off road buggys. I built my trailer and took it to him to get all welding done. But he is doing me a favor and i dont want to clutter up his shop with my junk. The truck is worth saving it has been in my family since new and the engine has 3000 miles on it since i rebuilt the engine rebuilt the transfer case and replaced the clutch. At work i see frames broke in half on 50 ton boom trucks fixed. If you guys dont want to help teach me fine. Im just trying to gain knowledge. The frame is solid besides the back 10 inches but there isnt a good place do cut into it besides were i stated.
Reply:oh and thank you swampy 79 that was useful.
Reply:It's not that we don't want to help, but there is just way too much to cover for something like this.Modern frames are almost all exclusively high tensile steel. These steels require different welding procedures depending on what steel was used. A good friend of mine who I help out from time to time does high tensile steel repairs on frames and cranes. The stack of wire in his shop for doing this fills an entire pallet. Different diameters, and strengths 70K, 80K, 90K, 110K and more. Then there's things like preheat, post heat, interpass temps, whether the frame was heat treated or not when formed. All this changes the way in needs to be welded. The various joints are dependent on where the weld in the frame needs to be, and how it is loaded.Older vehicles and heavy vehicles are different than say a car or light truck made in say the last 25 years. Most car/truck manufacturers started to change how they built cars in the mid 70's to reduce weight, save gas, and improve performance with the newer emission equipped engines. Exactly when a particular manufacturer changed isn't general knowledge for the most part. It can be found in the repair manuals and in some builders guides, but I don't know of one big list that tells you what each year is and how to do the job for that model. Every heavy truck I've seen built since the mid 90's usually has large clearly marked signs stating not to weld or to drill the frame. It's not that you can't, just that the steel is HT and you have to know what you are doing and the average guy doesn't know the corect procedures.All of this is a lot more complicated than just saying cut the frame on a 45 deg angle where ever you want and weld plates on both sides with your mig. You say you have a friend who does chassis work and will do the welding. I'd ask him how he wants it done, if he's going to do the work. It doesn't have to sit at his shop, but if I was doing the work, I'd want it prepped the way I want it done even if someone else was doing the grunt work.Hope this all makes sense.Last edited by DSW; 11-05-2009 at 09:45 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by slowlt1ok im not trying to be a jerk i wanted to learn and have learned alot by reading but when it comes to ask questions i always get just dont do it.
Reply:yes it does he told me to cut a step on each side. If the frame is 4inches tall have a 2inch rise and a 10 inch run. He said we will box the frame from spring perch to spring perch. Im here to learn. Thank you
Reply:Originally Posted by slowlt1oh and thank you swampy 79 that was useful.
Reply:Bah, I say go for it !(Weld it and Brace-It as one poster suggested...)I've seen some pretty amazing repairs in 'SALVAGED' vehicles that blew my mind.  Not only that, but think about how many vehicles are in fact 're-Registered' after being written off !I grew up in the Eastern Parts of Canada and I'll tell you this...  I have seen vehicles that were SO rusty from 'ROAD SALT' that you could stand at the side of the vehicle and throw a freaking Softball through one side and out the other without touching 'ANYTHING'....These vehicles were on City roads, driving around everyday (and if needed) at normal Highway speed (70mph Here).  Some of those vehicles were in such a horrible state, that they would actually SAG in different areas due to the frames and suspensions being so completely 'rusted out'.  Never, did I EVER see a vehicle that had the frame actually 'collapse' while under 'NORMAL' driving conditions.  Most ANY vehicle would SURELY develop OTHER issues that would cause you to 'park' IT before it came to that point, anyway...Cheers,/Jman...
Reply:Keep digging and don't get discouraged.  If the frame is as bad as you say it is, chances of you doing a repair and making it worse are slim.  Do your homework and check out the links above.  Remember, if you don't feel good about the repair, it's your brother who might pay the price, so be sure or don't do it.  Good luck.
Reply:i was digging on here and some one suggested this site http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/mag/...es/index1.html. This guy suggest using a straight splice?
Reply:Originally Posted by slowlt1i was digging on here and some one suggested this site http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/mag/...es/index1.html. This guy suggest using a straight splice?
Reply:#Toner's Frame-Splicing Commandments:Don't go from stiff to flexible. Taper and stagger reinforcements.#Stay out of high moment areas or extend reinforcing to a lower moment area.#Match steels for yield strength as closely as possible.#Extend reinforcements a minimum of twice the frame height past the splice before beginning the taper.#The strength of a frame rail is in the flanges.#More steel is stronger than less steel.#Use a straight cut at the splice...;.... ok i did can you point to where i am reading wrong
Reply:The article say to use a staright cut at the splice, not a straight splice.  Splice cuts should be straight but a splice is angled to increase contact area of the splice.
Reply:got it thank you.