Resell Value Question Miller 211 MVP or Hobart 210 MVP

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Hello Everyone.I'm new to welding and only a hobbyist but want to purchase a Mig welder and I am looking at a Millermatic 211 ($995 brand new) or a Hobart 210 MVP ($854 brand new).   What I want to consider before buying one is whether one will maintain its value more over the other in the event that I want to sell it in a few years from now.  I know that Miller is built a little more durable and the cost difference is only $136.  I'm not asking which one is better or which one is more desirable but rather which one will maintain its original cost better or would they be about the same?One more question.  I just found a Millermatic 135, 115 volt for $400 it is used but looks new.  Would that be a good alternative as a newbie and does the price sound good?  I'm sure I could sell it in the future for about the same as what I would pay for it even if I took a small loss and then buy the 211 or 210.  ThanksLast edited by hotrod123; 12-29-2011 at 10:51 AM.
Reply:Hi Hotrod,I suggest you buy the Miller 135, learn on it and make sure you are going to enjoy welding, then buy the Miller 211 later on, if you think it is necessary. That price is probably fair if in very good condition and especially if it includes a tank, helmet, wire, etc. You can always offer a little less and come up if necessary. Don't offer something ridiculously low or he might bail on you, but don't wait too long or it will be gone.I first bought a Miller 140AS new about 4 years ago, sold it about a year later and bought my 211AS. While I enjoy the 211AS on 220v, and as has been often quoted on this forum - "You can't use amps you didn't buy", reality is as a hobbiest, I could weld almost everything I have a need for with the 140AS. Consider saving some upfront money to use on grinders, helmet, gloves, etc. that you will need. Plus you should not have to do any additional wiring right now to get started.But to answer your original question, my opinion is the Miller will hold its value a little better than the Hobart, but either one will sell quickly with a fair return on your money if you choose to sell.Good luck to you, welcome to the forum, and get to burning some metal!(Post your location in your profile in case some members are close by and may be able to help you.)Last edited by wb4rt; 12-29-2011 at 11:37 AM.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:what are you planning on using the welder for? material thickness you'll work with will answer your question.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:The MM135 is a nice machine, but it will limit you to 1/8" steel and less under real world conditions, no matter what the manual tells you. All the manufacturers over rate these small machines. As long as you limit yourself to small projects on light material, you will do OK with this. However from general experience, once someone has a welder, all of a sudden they start finding heavier and heavier things they want to build. You quickly out grow a small machine. After a certain learning point you will find it possible to step down a bit with a machine, when your skills catch up, but until then, extra power is the best bet in many cases. Personally I would not want a small machine like this as my single welding option unless all I did was sheet metal.$400 is on the high side of fair to me. A new Hobart HH140 would set you back about $500, and I bet a bit of hunting could get that down some more if you kept your eyes open. $325-350 would be closer to what I'd expect to pay myself for that machine used. Additional items like a cylinder, would add to the value and increase the price a bit. If it comes with the cylinder ( depending on size) $400 starts to sound better.Getting the bigger machine up front will most likely save you money in the long run. Running on 230v power, you will have a much better chance of making decent welds on material in the 1/8" - 3/16" range when starting out. That tends to be the range most guy need to build tables, small brackets and such. You can still weld on 110v power to do thin stuff like the MM135 can if you have the need to take the machine elsewhere. You do have the power to do 1/4" to 3/8" if needed though, and that's a huge advantage. Also you have the ability to hook up a spoolgun and run 1/8" alum in the future if you find that's the way you want to go. This is a much better all around "starter" machine for most.As far as resale value, I'd say the Miller would sell a bit higher than the Hobart would. Both are very new machines, so there's no real hard numbers out there yet for used, but I'd expect to see values of 50-75% of original value when you go to sell something. Asking much more than that isn't generally worth it for a unit with no warranty and "unknown" use.Only you can decide what machine will be best for you. You will need to weigh your available budget along with what projects you have in mind, as well as what projects you might want to do in the future. If you have the money, go with the MM211, HH210 and don't worry about outgrowing the machine for quite a few years. If cash is tight and you really want to go now, as long as you keep the limits of that MM135 in mind it will serve you well, especially if you can get it for closer to $300.It would be a toss up to me... Spend the same amount of money. Buy a MM211 and learn on your own, or buy the MM135 and take a good night class or classes, and learn how to mig weld well. The MM211 will make up for a lot when starting out and be a machine you will have for years to come. On the other hand the class would teach you how to weld well and save you a good bit of time and money. The MM135 would be a good machine to practice with at home and help you get the most from your class. It would then give you the ability to do any projects 1/8 and under you probably need to do at your learning level. If you haven't thought about simply taking a class to start out, I highly recommend one. When you sit down and add up what it would cost you in materials, wire, gas, electricity and so on, not to mention the instruction, a class is usually stupid cheap. You also gain access to better machines than most can afford at the learning level as well as possibly the use of other expensive "shop" tools, presses, shears, rolls, OA, plasma... Most instructors love to have students bring in basic projects once they pass a certain point. It shows the student is honestly interested in learning..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Purchase the MM211.Yakdung
Reply:The Miller machine will have a better resale value than the Hobart... no doubt about that...  Get the 211 if you have the power source to run it.  other than doing sheet metal, 110vac machines are pretty worthless.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:You're doomed- already thinking about selling your tools.Don't sell it and you never have to worry about it Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:thank you for your replies.  I live in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.  I did buy the MM135.  I got for $300.  It is in great condition.  I'm going to use it and learn how to weld....then as was advised I will upgrade to a MM211.  I'm sure I will get my money back on this unit.  I'm glad I found your forum.
Reply:Here is the unit I got.  It came with a heavy gauge extension cord.
Reply:I would think the Miller will hold resale values better than the Hobart....With regards to the MM135... Its an underpowered gutless POS.  I am not saying its poorly made but IMHO a 120v welder is designed for the housewife that wants to plug her welder in next to her Sunbeam MixMaster. LOL  I am sure its a great machine if you want to weld sheet metal or do exhaust work.
Reply:Looks clean enough. Looks like they lost the nut that holds the spool on however. That nylock will be a PITA without tools. I'd think about ordering the correct part for that, or looking for a spring washer and a hand knob with the right thread size as a replacement. Since the nut is missing, chances are you don't have the adapter that lets you use the larger spools as well. Go to Millers site and you can down load the manual for that machine. If my memory serves me correct, you need an adapter to run 8" spools of wire on that machine.As I mentioned before in your other thread, you will be limited under real world conditions to 1/8" and less with that machine. Used within it's limits, it's a nice machine, but chances are you will quickly find that you will out grow it. I'm hoping you managed to get them down in price a bit from what you posted up before..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:He got it for $300.00, in post #8.Like Broccol1 said, I would not plan on selling that. I have one wire feeder, and I switch between .035 & .045. I would love to have a small one like that set up with some .025 or .030, for little things like my kid nephew's dirt bike muffler. They're very handy, and for the $300.00 you have invested, I think you'd regret selling it. I know I would.Congrats on the purchase!"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:You are correct that it is missing the 8in spool retaining ring.  As for the nut it does have a nylock nut.  Today I was going to take the unit to my local Miller dealer and see if I needed anything else. I was going to try and do some welding this weekend on some 1/16 or 2/16 steel.  I'm still keeping my eye out for nice preowned Miller 211 or Hobart 210 MVP.  Thanks again.
Reply:Hey Hotrod!Great score! A good extension cord for it is probably $30 so you are way ahead. Are you sure it has ever been plugged in? You will have a lot of fun learning with that welder. If not, I'll give you $300 for it now and I don't need it. BTW, the nylock is orginal, at least that is what came on my MM140AS. You do need the 8 in spool adapter, don't even buy the small rolls. Your LWS will fix you up if you need some extra tips, etc. Be sure you get a good autodark helmet. That will go a long way toward getting you weldingI agree with DSW, try to find a class. You will learn a lot and I'm sure you will burn up more wire, rods, metal, etc. than you pay for the course. Start with good habits so you do not have to un-learn bad ones.Post up some pictures and you will get good help on this forum.Good luck and welcome to welding!Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:The cord I got with the unit is 50' of 10AWG so I'm sure that would cost at least $75 new.I am going to take the advice given and enroll in an adult community high school welding course.  I did find one but it started in October and ends in Jan 11th so I will have to see when the next class is going to be offered.  They cover more than I'm looking for but it should be good to get a total exposure.  The course costs $233 and covers a variety of applications in welding and allied process. It Includes hands on training ARC welding, basic metallurgy, joining process selection (MIG, TIG and STICK). A certification test in structural plate and pipe, in destructive testing and x-ray quality. Blueprint reading and welding symbols.  Way more than I need as a hobbyist but it is what it is.  Who knows maybe I'll start a new career as a welder. lol
Reply:Run a dedicated 20amp receptacle for the welder to use in your shop..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:As far as upgrading u will probably.   Want to look at a 250amp class machineTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Looks like good price for a good machine.  I can't find a 135 in Arizona for that price. Good score!
Reply:Hot Rod, it's funny you mention resale value ,that's a point i always like to make to people when they  ask the question "which welder should i buy" and they say" i am hobbyist and don't want to spend a fortune on a welder what do you think of the Harbor Freights  or Centuries etc." i always say look for a good brand name  used one!  there is really no need to debate brands that's been beat to death on here and that's good the 2 brands you have chosen in my opinion you can't go wrong with either one . any time i make a major purchase on a piece of shop equip. that is the first thing i think about because when the day comes when i decide to sell or upgrade the guy looking at it is going to be a guy just like you and me and he is going to know what he is looking at . my theory is relevant to what you found the 135 for, yea it's not new price  but the guy selling is getting 50% value of a new one after he got some good use out of it. i bought a MM252 in the same condition as your 135 and i new when i pulled in the guys driveway i was going home with it. another thing i don't ever hear mentioned on here is taking good care of your equipment ie. 1)don't use em as a work bench or grinding table 2) don't leave em outside  3)don't put stickers all over em 4)keep em clean and looking good and everything in good working order. these are the things i notice when i buy anything used and 5) DO NOT LOAN IT TO ANY ONE . i watch craigslist  daily and have seen stuff sit on there for weeks and not sell because they look like they have spent they're life in iraq and the thing that gets me is these idiots want premium price for em with parts missing and all and they aren't smart enough to realize  who's  looking at what he's trying to  sell . if you keep that thing in the condition it's now you will have no problem getting your money back.  sorry about the rant but i don't hear this stuff mentioned on here to much ! just my 2 cents ..... good luck ChrisLast edited by ct from shawnee; 12-30-2011 at 06:27 PM.
Reply:I think you did good. Is that gasless flux core in there? Get some 75/25 and some "normal" wire. don't forget to swap polarity when you do.Now that you have a good 110v machine, there will be no need to upgrade to a MVP model when its time. Go straight to a dedicated 230v machine. Probably start keeping an eye out for a good used one again when its time.