First post, and a Q about dual shielding...

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Lots of invaluable info here, but my empty searches on this one particular question have lead me to register and post up. I'm a home hobbyist, with no formal welding training, outside of my few books, and a bro with decades of experience I should be bugging more often. In reading the specs for ESAB's dual shielded FCAW wire, I see the 0.045 in wire in particular has it's minimum amp ratings just within range of the avg 110v welders. (115 amps if I read the table right). Does this in fact relate to anyone's real-world experience wtih burning some in a 110v welder successfully? Just looking to build on or throw away the little bit of info I was given about this. As I was told, a properly experienced weldor and 110v machine could use dual shielding to gain a bit more penetration over that of regular FCAW-SS wire. I realize how impractical it would seem to be, due to duty-cycle limits for one, but for arguement's sake, humor me, please.So it's two parts:1. Feasibility of DS and a puny welder.2. Generally speaking, can DS penetrate better than SS?If anyone has made it this far, thanks for wading through this mess of a 1st post! MikeLast edited by wile e coyote; 02-18-2008 at 01:23 AM.
Reply:I have used the dualshield 7400 ultra from ESAB.   I get your point about the amps, but what about the volts?I have a 110 mig, and I don't think it would be piratical.It wasn't designed for that big of wire.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:It's all about the current density of the wire. Amps/Inches Squared. Or other words the amps over the cross sectional area of your tubular wire. I agree with david on it's on practical. I wouldn't run .045 DS with 110V welder. I run it on like a 400A machine. I only use it when welding heavy gauge plate because of the ease of operation and penetration abilities. --Gol'
Reply:Thanks for your responses, fellas. I'm learning about the current density and how it affects weld heat, that's the biggest reason why flux-cored wire penetrates better than gas shielded solid wire, in general. I also understand how impractical a 110v welder and dual shieled wire would be, as I posted above. Just looking to see if it's possible, and if a skilled weldor could see more penetration from DS wire opposed to SS wire on the same job, and small machine. I know the biggest benefits of the DS wire is it's transfer speed and forgiving characteristics, and that it's most common uses are shipyard, railyard, and general fab stuff on heavy material. Just looking to clarify the particular details listed in my 1st post.
Reply:.045 is probly too big for the machine, but .030 should work.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I looked on my chart at work.  ESAB .045 dualshield starts at 140 amps and 24 volts.  You don't have either one of those.  Sorry, but try some smaller stuff for your machine.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I wouldn't even try and run .045 in my 110 mig. We use .045 Allstate Corcast (for joining dissimilar metals) in our 220 weldpac, but it is pushing it's limits.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI looked on my chart at work.  ESAB .045 dualshield starts at 140 amps and 24 volts.  You don't have either one of those.  Sorry, but try some smaller stuff for your machine.David
Reply:Originally Posted by wile e coyotePerhaps I read the TDS chart on another ESAB dual shielded wire, or it's the same wire stats, and I read it wrong. Generally, the real-world asnwers I've gotten so far all say the same thing, so at least I can now rethink what I learned about it. 0.045" is a bit too much wire for a 110v welder to burn well. Pretty dern close, cause 140 amps is generally the max a 110v welder can muster, as I know it. The 24v I'm not so sure about.Thanks for the replies, fellas.
Reply:Like the other folks said, 0.045 wire isn't going to be able to run in most 110-120V MIG machines.  Not enough volts, not enough amps, not enough power.The smaller 220-240V MIG machines (the 180-class machines) are usually rated to run 0.045 FCAW wire.  But they probably don't have the volts to run the dualshield wire, or might barely be able to run in the lower amp ranges (before the voltage drops off as the amperage output rises).  You'll probably need a 210-class or 250-class machine to push enough volts and amps (POWER!) to utilize dualshield wire (based on a quick check of ESAB's website and some specs on their dualshield wires, 0.035 DualShield 7000A1 specs out at 130A and 22V at 288 ipm wire speed, etc, etc).
Reply:Originally Posted by David RYou are not going to like this, but about all a 110 V mig can muster is 100 amps.  David
Reply:If you do the math, you will soon see it is hype.   110 volts Times 20 amps = 2200 watts.  We weld at about 18.5 volts for MIG.  2200 watts divided by 18.5 volts = 118 amps.   This is NOT considering efficiency loss which is 10 to 30% depending on the quality of the machine.  SO 118 amps times 90% (optimistic) efficiency = 106 amps.  A 30 amp circuit helps, but......DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Ah. I have a handle on Ohm's Law, just didn't have all the info to apply it to welding with my small machine. With arbitrary output labeled A-D, it leaves a lot for the novice to still understand.I really appreciate your continued advice.