How bad are the cheap options out there?

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I'd like to find some current - as in now(!) - advice on a TIG welder.The nice looking TIG welders seem to sell from about 2000 euros / 2000 pounds (GBP) / $2000 (USD). Now 'cos I'm here in Europe I need to buy in Europe because we all have 220V single phase domestic supplies... but my question is...How bad is a 300GBP / 300 euro AC/DC TIG welder going to be?Considering that you get what you pay for how much of a pain in the arse is a bargain basement welder going to be?Would it be a total waste of money or would it be something that an enthusiastic beginner could have some fun with?Would it be better just to consider a simple DC machine instead?
Reply:Can you find a quality used machine?
Reply:Wherever  you are the saying goes, you get what you pay for!   Look for a decent used machine.AEAD 200LE, Lincoln precision tig 185, Millermatic 251, Spectrum 625 extreme, Victor torch , Smithy 1220LTD. and  Do all C-4 band saw ,  Always adding.
Reply:don't all decent TIG welders use 220volts in the US as well as everywhere else? Volts is Volts. It doesn't matter if it is from combining legs or a single leg.I don't see why you'd have to buy European stuff if you have access to the US stuff and that's what you'd prefer. A quick internet search tell me the Netherlands uses 50hz, so that might be a slight problem, but anything that would work in Canada will work there too. Worst case is you'd have to swap cords or make an adapter.as to your basic question, no don't get a super cheap pile of garbage.
Reply:Originally Posted by Groodon't all decent TIG welders use 220volts in the US as well as everywhere else? Volts is Volts. It doesn't matter if it is from combining legs or a single leg.I don't see why you'd have to buy European stuff if you have access to the US stuff and that's what you'd prefer. A quick internet search tell me the Netherlands uses 50hz, so that might be a slight problem, but anything that would work in Canada will work there too. Worst case is you'd have to swap cords or make an adapter.as to your basic question, no don't get a super cheap pile of garbage.
Reply:Thanks for the replies folks. You've all confirmed my suspicions.As for the power supply - we get single phase 220V @ 50Hz here for the standard domestic supply.You can arrange for a three phase supply (I think it is 415 volts - but that might be just the UK) but if you don't happen to be on a part of the network that has 3 phase running past your front door the connection costs can be pretty high. Put it this way I wouldn't be asking questions about 2000 euro machines - that would be the least of my trouble.I was under the impression that the domestic supply in most parts of the US of A was 120 V @ 60 Hz.My only experience with this is because of having trouble with lap top / mobile telephone chargers etc and of course block heaters for diesel engines...
Reply:Originally Posted by ArmyThanks for the replies folks. You've all confirmed my suspicions.As for the power supply - we get single phase 220V @ 50Hz here for the standard domestic supply.I was under the impression that the domestic supply in most parts of the US of A was 120 V @ 60 Hz.My only experience with this is because of having trouble with lap top / mobile telephone chargers etc and of course block heaters for diesel engines...
Reply:Originally Posted by Groo...Canada is the same way, but uses 50 hertz power, like the Netherlands, ....
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VWTF?  Canada is exactly the same as the USA - at the home it's 60Hz, 230 volts split with a neutral.Cripes both countries are on the same power grid and sawp power all the tme.
Reply:Originally Posted by GrooMaybe it used to be 50 hertz and changed over?
Reply:And at one time New York was primarily wired for DC,
Reply:Ask here for advice due to your location:http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php
Reply:Try Japan where half the country is 50hz and the other 60hz for fun.http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...covery-harder/
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VNot in my lifetime ~65 years.
Reply:Originally Posted by ironmangqAnd at one time New York was primarily wired for DC,
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VWTF?  Canada is exactly the same as the USA - at the home it's 60Hz, 230 volts split with a neutral.Cripes both countries are on the same power grid and sawp power all the tme.
Reply:The North American system for home use is 120 on each line to neutral and 240 volt from line to line 60 cycle. The English system is 250 to neutral  50 cycle. This is why every thing USA electrical needs to have transformer's/adapters to work at all and some will not work at all. The 50 vs 60 cycle means that anything with clocks will be off by quite a bit. Anything that converts it to DC and then uses inverters to change it back to 5v dc or 12 dc such as a computer will normally work and some even have a switch to set for the right voltage. Three phase is normally just for commercial application and is not normally available in homes without $10,000 or more in  installation charges and also base rates may be different for electricity used. The note that Japan has some 50 cycle and some 60 cycle is divided by coasts, west coast is 60 east coast is 50 cycle. This is why the power outages caused by tsumai have been so hard to fix. The USA and Canada are part of the North American Power Grid and can share power from California to Alaska to East coast of Canada to Florida.
Reply:Brilliant response about the power! Here we're only talking countries - you should all look into rail transport electrical power...
Reply:I was thinking...How about if I twist the question around a bit?What makes a good welding machine good?Sure good quality switches would be nice - but how about the gubbins inside where the real value is?Could some one with a clever electrical engineer friend upgrade a cheapo piece of junk to have the heart of a lion?
Reply:Originally Posted by Groodon't all decent TIG welders use 220volts in the US as well as everywhere else? Volts is Volts. It doesn't matter if it is from combining legs or a single leg.
Reply:Its the quality of the internal components,  design quality, solder quality,  amount of head room built into the machine components. Pre sale Quality Control.  Does the manufacturer track failure causes and develop changes and improvements in the design to eliminate such failures etc.   There is also a good chunk of change spent on advertizing by the quality brands that the chicoms do have as an expeseTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by ArmyI was thinking...How about if I twist the question around a bit?What makes a good welding machine good?Sure good quality switches would be nice - but how about the gubbins inside where the real value is?Could some one with a clever electrical engineer friend upgrade a cheapo piece of junk to have the heart of a lion?
Reply:Thanks for the replies - the future for a cheap option doesn't look too rosy.
Reply:Originally Posted by nikodellTry Japan where half the country is 50hz and the other 60hz for fun.http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...covery-harder/
Reply:Originally Posted by ArmyThanks for the replies - the future for a cheap option doesn't look too rosy.