Auto body work, O/A or MIG?

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Hey, I'm new here, I'm seventeen, I'm Lantz, i've posted a few questions about my welder in the electrical section. Anyway, I just bought my first welder, but it is an arc welder, and is no good for body panel work, which I I kind of need to be able to do, because my car is a rusted out old muscle car with more holes than sheet metal. I am just curious right now, which is better for Auto body work, MIG, or O/A torch welding? I've heard O/A welding causes warping really easy, but I've also heard that MIG doesn't work as well on sheet metal. I learned to weld with an O/A torch before anything else, so that isn't a problem, but I'm just not sure which setup would do me the most good. I'm kind of leaning towards the torch setup right now. I've heard if a person is good enough, they can weld all kinds of different metals with a torch setup as well, like aluminum, and bronze, etc.  I like the versatility of atorch, such as being able to cut, weld, hardface, braze, etc.TIG is out of the question, because it is just way too spendy, and a bit too specialized, I need a one size fits all setup right now, or at least a one size fits many. And that is another question I have, price wise, it is cheaper to buy a MIG welder and keep a constant supply of shielding gas, or is it cheaper to buy a torch setup, and keep a constant supply of Oxygen and Acetylene? Im just looking  for experienced opinions and advice here.
Reply:pick up a used 110v mig welder. Run it on gas and it will serve you well. But practice makes perfect! People seem to practically give away the lincoln Mig pak 100s or whatever they are called on craigslist. Would be a perfect machine for autobody.
Reply:Really? I didn't think anyone thought much of the 110 MIGs, I figured you see them on Craigslist for cheap because people bought them, and then realized they were junk.
Reply:i dont think anyone here will say 110v migs are bad for auto body. I think they are the perfect machine for autobody. Of course if you can afford a 220v mig and can run it, go for it. You are less likely to outgrow it.
Reply:Hey man, Im 17 too!! There are a lot of them out there, and they're not useful for many things. But they aren't junk at all, just limited. Most of them max out at about 1/8". They really are good for thin stuff, but anything more than that, is just asking for trouble.I started off with a 100 amp lincoln wire feed welder and a lincoln buzzbox last summer, almost a year ago. Ive moved up a little since then. I still used the wire feed for thin stuff, and then the big old tombstone for anything bigger. It worked, but wasnt ideal.I think 110 volt mig has your name written all over it!! I have a smaller bottle for mine, Im not sure of the size, but its not too small, it costs about $30 to fill, and I can run with that for a long time. Unless I forget to turn it off, lol. My torch has bigger bottles of oxygen and acetylene, which cost about $18 and $50 respectively. I go through a lot of oxygen cylinders before one acetylene. Im still on my first acetylene, and although its pretty low, ive gone through 3-5 of the bigger oxygen tanks with it. All I do is cutting and heating, tho. Ive welded with it like 3 times, lol. Well, good luck!! [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Well, it looks like I need to be looking for a used 110, or 220 MIG gas welder, as well as a torch kit. I think I'll look at both, and if I see a good deal on one or the other I'll buy it, and then start working towards the other one.
Reply:I say pick up the cheapest (but good condition) 110v mig you can on craigslist and get a bottle, then take a welding course at the local community college so you can play with all the toys. After the course if you still want an OA setup, go for it! I was dead set on getting all the really 'cool' toys, but if I could do it all over again, I would have just made myself get something like a Lincoln 140 or Millermatic 140.Now I'm stuck with this Maxstar 150 STL that I don't want to give up because it's oh so nice, when a cheap MIG would do all the things I actually need a welder to do.
Reply:oa is perfect and you already have the tools and skills...why buy a cheap wirefeeder....?fluxcore ng for bodywork so youd need a mig..
Reply:As cars get newer the sheet metal has gotten thinner.  For old cars of the 20's to 60's you can use OA without a problem.  For the 70's and 80's you will like a MIG.  Newer than that and you might want to try glue on.Here is a plan.  Go to an Auto Paint Shop and ask them.  Even try asking at an Auto Body Shop.  See what they tell you.Last one I did was a mid 70's Dodge Truck with my Lincoln MigPak 100, .025 wire and argon/C02 mix gas.  Worked well for me but you will want a lot a practice on something you don't like (not your car)If you know someone who hauls scrap cars have him leave one with you for awhile and make your mistakes on it before trying on your muscle car.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Taiden, i know how to use a MIG welder and O/A, and have had a fairly good amount of practice with both, the only type of welding I don't know how to do is TIG. I definintely plan on practicing quite a bit on sheet metal before I do any real welding on my car. My car is a 72 Buick GS350, by the way, so Im not sure if the sheet metal would be thicker or thinner. I've noticed the hood, and door panels are a bit thicker than the quarter panels.Ill trying looking for a cheap Lincoln, I know Lincoln is a good brand, so I trust that those wouldn't die on me.
Reply:if your working on cars i wouldnt buy anything less than 180 amp mig welder with infinite controls..  it will cover anything from body repair to chassis fabrication and repair..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Hey I'm 17 too.Well if you have enought money buy both.You will need O/A to weld, cut, bend,... ...belive me it's very usefull, you can also weld dirty metal. Mig is good and easy for welding, but metal must be clean and without gaps. If you want to buy mig welder buy at least 200 amp(best 250amps), because if you buy cheap and weak welder, you will be buying new one in year or two. Look for used welders. You can find old and heavy welders for cheap and belive me they are far better than any chinese crap.
Reply:Sweet ravselj, how long you been welding?I love the old heavy duty machines, not only are they cheap, but they are tough, and usually just as powerful.I already have an old Montgomery Ward AC/DC arc welder for the thicker stuff, but it would be nice to have a wire welder that would be versatile.I only have about 400 dollars to spend, so I will have to find either a cheap used Wire welder, or a used Torch, i suppose I could go for the wire welder first. The more powerful MIG welders are pretty expensive though.
Reply:I'm welding since I was 14, first with old 300amp stick machine and O/A, now I'm tig welding stainless (for hoby). 400$ is not very much, but you probably can buy usefull welder, just don't buy chinese welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by LantzSweet ravselj, how long you been welding?I love the old heavy duty machines, not only are they cheap, but they are tough, and usually just as powerful.I already have an old Montgomery Ward AC/DC arc welder for the thicker stuff, but it would be nice to have a wire welder that would be versatile.I only have about 400 dollars to spend, so I will have to find either a cheap used Wire welder, or a used Torch, i suppose I could go for the wire welder first. The more powerful MIG welders are pretty expensive though.
Reply:Every welder has its use.  For auto body, a small 110v machine is all you need.  Never mind those buys behind the curtain telling you that you need anything bigger.  You'll only be using 30-40amps on sheet metal anyway.  And, you DON'T weld automobile frames.  Big no no...I love these guys that tell you to buy a 2K machine when a used $200 machine will suit your needs.  Any small mig that will run with gas will work just fine, even the cheap chinese ones.Oxy-fuel welding sheet metal....thin sheet metal at that will have you chasing your tail trying to get it straightened out when you're done welding.  I'm good at it and it still requires a lot of hammer and dolly work when you're done.Mig is the way to go.
Reply:Im looking at a slightly used Lincoln SP-135T for an affordable price right now(375$). It doesn't include a gas bottle, and I' m not sure if he includes the regulator. It comes with a helmet and gloves. What do y'all think, should I spring for it? With my stick welder, i would essentially be able to weld almost any thickness of metal out there. Oh, it's 120volt, 25-135 amps. Not too powerful, but my stick can do whatever it can't. Im thinking I will take a closer look tomorrow.
Reply:Originally Posted by LantzIm looking at a slightly used Lincoln SP-135T for an affordable price right now(375$). It doesn't include a gas bottle, and I' m not sure if he includes the regulator. It comes with a helmet and gloves. What do y'all think, should I spring for it? With my stick welder, i would essentially be able to weld almost any thickness of metal out there. Oh, it's 120volt, 25-135 amps. Not too powerful, but my stick can do whatever it can't. Im thinking I will take a closer look tomorrow.
Reply:One thing I would look for regardless of what you buy is look for quality.To me it is an utter waste of money to buy any off brand electric welder,there are plenty of Miller,Hobart,ESAB and Lincoln machines in the used market place.Also make sure that if you buy used that parts and service are still readily available.......don't buy someone elses problems.Hats off to all three of you youngun's for wanting to get your hands dirty and learn valuable skills!
Reply:Alright, how about a Hobart Handler for 500 dollars? From what I can see on the internet, that's a very good price, I think. Doesn't come with a gas bottle though.
Reply:gas and mig both have a place in auto body welding in the right hands. both can do the job quite well or quite poorly depending on your technique and heat distribution. the nice thing about using a torch and the right size tip is you can readily see the heat distortion before the damage is done and adjust for it. both take a lot of practice to be good at it. not something that can be taught online. the torch is useful for shrinking the metal also. again takes practice though. as for the comment about welding on a car frame being "a big no no". untold numbers of rods have been shortened and lengthened as well as truck tractor and trailer frames with no issues. (i have done both numerous times myself). again skill, technique, method and materials come into play and should not for safety sake be attempted if it exceeds your abilities.  my 16 yr old son who just finished his 3rd yr in high school welding and takes first place in weld tournaments for his mig welding is building a dog step for his duck boat. (a step is so the dog after retrieving a duck or goose can climb back into the boat.) since the schools don't seem to want to teach this younger generation the older methods of joining metal such as o/a and stick because they seem to think they are low tech and outdated methods my boy is shy of them both. he wanted to build this step out of mig welded 1" x 16ga steel square tube but didn't have the cash so to help the kid out i bought twice the amount needed for the job and made sure he could see it on the rack knowing he would ask to use some of it. he did. i said sure but since i was supplying the material it was only right that i mandate the method used to weld it. he said i bet you want me to tig it. i said nope, i want it gas welded. he said aw s**t and looked at his dog and says "dog your gonna drown".  i about fell off my stool. i figured it would be good practice that he couldn't refuse and told him be thankful he hadn't chosen aluminum because my choice of weld method would still stand. he started welding it today and i must say the welds aren't pretty but the dog won't drown lol.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Haha, jbmprods. I am very thankful to my welding teacher for being old fashioned, and making me learn O/A welding before anything else, then I moved onto stick, and then, and only then, did he let me move onto MIG. I never entered any tournaments, but I was at the top of the class, and I was the only kid to be allowed to use the MIG machine the first year. (We had a series of weld tests we had to pass before we could move on to anything else.)I dont feel O/A or stick are outdated, and actually enjoy using them as much if not more than MIG welding, but I would like a MIG welder for thinner metal, and fabrication. As for modifying frames, I am not intending on doing anything to weaken any frames, but I have an old 53 GMC pickup frame that I would like to box in eventually. Stuff like that comes up all the time with me, because I like to work on old cars, hot rods, and drag racers.
Reply:jbmprods that's interesting. At my school in Slovenia we were welding mostly with O/A and only little with stick and mig. O/A is very usefull proces for car body repair, but yeah, it takes a lot more of practise than mig.
Reply:It would be very hard to beat a Hobart Handler 140 for what you are wanting to do.  I researched a lot of similar welders in this class, and I've never heard anything negative on the Hobarts.  I ended up choosing a 210 because I need the extra power (tractor implements, etc.), but the 140  would be my choice in a 110v machine.Looks like toolking has these at the moment refurbished:  http://www.toolking.com/hobart-50050...elder-a-stock/Hobart Handler 210Lincoln AC-225Smith Torches/Regs
Reply:"how about a Hobart Handler for 500 dollars?"It is very important to make sure you get ALL the model information correct.If it is an actual Hobart Handler(no number)it isn't worth 5.00.If it is a Hobart Handler xxx it could easily be worth 500.00.I'm not trying to be nit-picky but small things,like the number,can make a huge difference.There is only one 115volt welder that is any good. It is the Hobart Trek 180. That is because it does not run right off 115volts, but off the batteries that are charged by 115volts. Yes, it is cordless. Once I see one of my 220 volt migs, I will get one. Conventional 220 volt migs have the grunt to start your arc and hold it.Really if you by an Oxy/gas torch, it will be by your side for the rest of your life.
Reply:Originally Posted by LantzHaha, jbmprods. I am very thankful to my welding teacher for being old fashioned, and making me learn O/A welding before anything else, then I moved onto stick, and then, and only then, did he let me move onto MIG. I never entered any tournaments, but I was at the top of the class, and I was the only kid to be allowed to use the MIG machine the first year. (We had a series of weld tests we had to pass before we could move on to anything else.)I dont feel O/A or stick are outdated, and actually enjoy using them as much if not more than MIG welding, but I would like a MIG welder for thinner metal, and fabrication. As for modifying frames, I am not intending on doing anything to weaken any frames, but I have an old 53 GMC pickup frame that I would like to box in eventually. Stuff like that comes up all the time with me, because I like to work on old cars, hot rods, and drag racers.
Reply:I don't do autobody for a living.  I have restored one 1972 Mercedes, repaired a 1988 K-box (Dodge Aries K) and a 1997 Saturn.So, I ain't no expert for sure.I have done a small amount of general sheet-metal work with both MIG and oxy-acetylene.I have oxy-acetylene equipment and use it from time-to-time for welding and brazing; I took a 30 hour training course. I have a 220 volt input Lincoln SP-175 with 130 amps output (use solid wire and 100% CO2) and never took a course.Again, I'm no expert!IMO for autobody work, I see MIG as having far more uses, being a lot faster and creating much less collateral damage ( read burning off paint over a wide area, setting fire to carpet and undercoat, melting plastic, and warping body panels) than oxy-acetylene!Be it replacing a short length of rusted-out rocker channel, plug welding a patch or stitch welding on thin metal, for me...MIG wins Hands-Down!Oxy-acetylene isn't in the Game!Rocker Channel Replacement - http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=54664Plug welding a patch - http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/plug-weld.htmStitch Welding Thin Metal - http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/thin-metal.htmThat's how I see it - MIG WINS! Originally Posted by kaferhausOxy-fuel welding sheet metal....thin sheet metal at that will have you chasing your tail trying to get it straightened out when you're done welding.  I'm good at it and it still requires a lot of hammer and dolly work when you're done.Mig is the way to go.
Reply:Well, that’s a good thing if he manage to reconstruct your car. There are only few of them I know who can do auto body job very well. But I want to know the prices and quotes for the job  done because money matter if my clients have expensive car and auto body work need to be done than money create problem.Auto Body
Reply:I used OA for 30 years before I got my first Mig.  Mig is faster welding, but I have so many more hour of practice with OA that I find many times it is faster through final finishing.  Started with a Sams Club wirefeed welder for $150.00  spent $160.00 for gas bottle.  When the liner in the gun wore out found out it was not replaceable. Bought a hobart Handler believe a 140 for $369.00 used for 6 years burned out circuit board was going to cost $600.00 to replace.  Bought a 220v Hobart with a bottle to have a spare for $2400.00, haven't regretted any of the machines.  Still have a forney arc welder from the 1940's just bought a sa200 short hood for $700.00 love it.  They all have their uses, don't over spend your budget let each one pay for itself.
Reply:It looks like most of the posts in this thread are a little biased towards MIG, from little or no experience with O/A. I am biased too but in the other direction, toward O/A. I actually started looking at welding as way to do custom parts and repair work on my car also. With out researching enough and going off of the word of people on another message board I bought a Hobart Handler 187. I ended up selling it before I even used it after I started finding out how much more versatile and capable O/A isFirst if you are planning on sticking to your budget of $400 give up on MIG now. You might find a used machine for that but then what about the extras? That will put you over and chances are the welder might limit you or have some mechanical issue, then what? You are better off picking up a used O/A rig on price alone. You could find tanks, torch, cart, cutting head, regulators, and who knows what else thrown in for around $300. That leave money left over for rods, tips, sheet metal, sheet metal tools....you get the idea right? This stuff doesn't hold it's valve like MIG machines do, and there are a lot of good deals to be had.Next if seems like all the MIG guys are afraid of warping like there is no solution and you are stuck if the panel warps. Guess what there is a pretty simple solution, it's called a hammer and dolly, or you could just use proper tips and technique and avoid the whole problem. The do have a good point about the time, but you aren't doing this for living on an assembly line, so a few extra minutes here and there aren't going to be that bad. The other downside I am surprised I haven't seen is the cost of the gas, in the long run it really might end up being cheaper buying the MIG but that is if you go through a lot of tanks or are running small tanks. Some of the plus sides of O/A have been covered cutting, brazing, heating, welding. With welding you can weld just about anything with the right flux and rod. That starts putting you at a TIG's capabilities and then some. If you ever need to weld some aluminum just pick up some TIG wire some flux and have at it. You could do some cool stuff like bend your own exhaust from a single tube. Or heat up stuck bolts from manifolds to suspension parts and get them out without torquing the heads off. There are so many possibilities with O/A. And last if you ever pick up a sheet metal fabrication book or an auto body handbook chances are they will be using O/A as it has been used by the business for generations. I am not trying to make your mind up for you but just try and give you a fair peak at the other side.Last edited by jere; 01-25-2012 at 11:45 AM.