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anybody here use this product ? i just ran across some old pdf files from the company.back in the mid 80's ,i bought several of their units for my toolroom maintenance welders (sheet metal stamping dies ). the process uses sub-harmonic vibration to releive stress during the weld process instead of using heat-treat afterwards. the guys liked the results at that time. i see the company is still in business and now has a web site.miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:Not that particular one, but VSR has been around for a long time.For small tightly coupled structures they don't do much if anything. For larger structures that have less redundant stiffening they do OK. They work by shaking the weldment which causes stresses in areas of high restraint to relax a bit.I can't imagine any use for tool steel or weld repair of same. It wouldn't change anything in a lump of tool steel. And it won't do anything about a weld section on tool steel???The only time I guess they are usefull is when a large weldment needs to be stable and is later "tweeked" by mechanical force and needs to stay put in regards to angular dimensions.What are you expecting to do with it?PS - I've never seen it used while the welding was being done (and I really don't even want to go there).MattLast edited by Matt_Maguire; 01-30-2012 at 10:19 PM.
Reply:Yes, Bonal Technologies I believe. This was a $10k system.Claim was that welding while inducing subharmonic vibrations reduced distortion.Post weld stress relief could be done in addition to weld treatment. Interesting was that stress relief could be documented with an analizer.Had for a money back trial period. Conclusion for us was that no increase in productivity was achieved, and no market for stress relief services in my area. Bonal was very gratious during the return process.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireNot that particular one, but VSR has been around for a long time.For small tightly coupled structures they don't do much if anything. For larger structures that have less redundant stiffening they do OK. They work by shaking the weldment which causes stresses in areas of high restraint to relax a bit.I can't imagine any use for tool steel or weld repair of same. It wouldn't change anything in a lump of tool steel. And it won't do anything about a weld section on tool steel???The only time I guess they are usefull is when a large weldment needs to be stable and is later "tweeked" by mechanical force and needs to stay put in regards to angular dimensions.What are you expecting to do with it?PS - I've never seen it used while the welding was being done (and I really don't even want to go there).Matt
Reply:I never saw one doing what I'd call brutal vibration. They could do some damage if left running at wrong speeds on a weldment or complex stucture (there's more to this than just clamping them down and plugging it in).With A2 or D2 and no thermal treatment I'm never going to match the tool steel. This would be more of an emergengy repair while a new tool is being built. If I'm reconditioning somthing like a D2 punch that's cutting laminations and has to have max properties then thermal is the only wise option.Any claim of "refinement" should never be used, because a met lab guy will want to section & etch to check grain size and structure (VSR will show nothing that could be called refined or reduced grain size).A better term would be "age" or "season". With castings or springs & this has a very useful purpose, however, with ductile weldments of mild steel or low alloy constructional steels VSR being a mechanical work process it will express itself as "fatigue". With a bunch of fillets and "T" joints the weaker material (either filler or parent) will yeild a good enough cycles to go unity and stay put. This involves a very slight "reduction" of properties, thermal treatment does much the same thing at temps lower than Ac1. Full thermal where the steel is taken to Ac3 or austenitic is the accepted way to "refine" welded steel, and even normalizing or quench & temper has it's limits.Now, to the shaking while welding... All direct hardening steels have a temperature range where they are solid but "very brittle" and another range where they are "very ductile & subject to fatigue with little effort". You can find the brittle range with tempering charts. The ductile range is near the upper service range for the material. As a weld cools it will go through both ranges and I won't want any movement while this happens.So, on a solid chunk of tool steel I would expect the puddle to just wobble a little before freezing, the VSR has no chance of having enough energy to cause the chunk to change shape or flex, so no real working of the weld itself is happening.A real test would be to take 2 W1 or W2 shear blades at 62-65RC, tack them together, stand them on end, and weld them out while vibrating... You can use hot work tool steel to make it easier but you cannot exceed 300F to maintaian max hardness of the water hard near the weld. I expect it would be wise to have hard hats and full leathers to protect from the top blade maybe falling over.BTW, welding water hard is prolly the only thing less fun than welding D2 (for different reasons, but it sucks rocks).It's a valid process and widely used, BUT, use the force wisely "Luke" Matt