Pipe Question

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I have a piece of pipe.  I need to know the root gap.   10" Schedule 40 .  I have the ell and its beveled.  I plan to cut the pipe in half, weld the flanges on the cut end and bevel the factory end as long as it checks out square.I was going to use rod to set the root gap.  3/32?Phil,I bought 10 lbs 3/32 308LNo x ray or anything.  What root gap?Because its stainless  I am gong to tack the heck out of it.I also have  a roll of .030 for pulsed spray if tig is too slow.It will be purged.Last edited by David R; 02-22-2012 at 08:54 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I would knife edge the joints, hold them tight, back purge, and run my root hot. If you want to hold a root gap go with a 1/16" landing and hold your gap at 1/16" to 3/32" and make sure you tape the gap and peel it away as your running your root so you get a good purge.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:take your time with it. once you've blackend the surrounding metal you've burned the nickel out of it and it will eventually rust.  weld some then let it cool to the touch.
Reply:I'm with Tozzi.  Knife edge or just kiss the land with a file.  A loose 3/32" opening works better for me.  You know how stainless moves, so I'll just mention to check your fit up a second time after you tack and before you weld it out completely.  I think 4 healthy tacks will do, but whatever works for you should be OK. How straight, plumb, and level is good enough on this job?Clean the joints thoroughly.  I like a 2" flapper in straight grinder, followed by acetone wipe down inside and out.What are you purging with?  Ar is best, but given the size of that pipe, I wouldn't blame you for using Nitrogen.  Are you rigging purge dams so you don't have to purge that whole volume of pipe?if you opt for the pulsed spray, I strongly recommend putting in a TIG hot pass also, and splurging on a tank of Tri-Mix.Do you finish the welding on site?  Or do you have to figure out how to transport that spool once it's all welded out?Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:1/8th gap, 1/2" hold out on the flanges 3/32 land.... Pulse the flanges and 90, 4 tacks will be enough on the 90, we do it almost daily, what gas mix do you plan to use on the pulse?
Reply:I have a tank of trimix.  I plan to tig the root maybe the kinfe edge and a keyhole.The flanges go on first, then the 90.  Last weld will be in place although I can turn the pipe 180 with my chain falls.   Purged with straight argon.I don't know how we are going to load it on to their truck.   I did one before that was schedule 10.  4 of us carried it out and put it on the truck.    It would take 10 for this one.I have no clue what its for.  I have been working with enough stainless to know take my time and measure more than once.  I have a pretty big scrap pile.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Make sure you weld inside and outside of the flanges, one peice 90 flange, second just the flange, 1 position weld
Reply:If you're going to use 3/32 wire run just slightly under than for a root opening, say 5/64.  That way you can just lay the wire right in the joint and walk it in.Actually, does it even need to be a full pen weld?  Im betting if its not getting x-rayed its not that critical.  If its not going to be inspected and they are not asked for full pen, I would just butt it together.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Don't butt it together, provide a "good" close to X-ray weld
Reply:What ever gap you use, account for it shrinking
Reply:I personally would run a 5/32" - 3/16" gap. Run 1/8" 308 wire. 4 tack your joint. Also when tacking your pieces after making your 1st tack and going to make second tack remember to ride your bubble high. Meaning don't tack it level because your tack will suck her outta level. Stainless will close up on you so weld your tightest 1/4 first. Then move to your opposite 1/4. You may also after you got your root in want to weld on the side opposite of your throat 1st each time you start a pass because pipe especially stainless will draw toward the throat side and before you know it your a 1/4" to 3/8" outta square. The reason I personally weld with such a large gap is so I ain't forcing my root in. The pipe will draw and by time your 1/2 through with welding your second quadrant 1/8" wire fits nicely in your gap. If your gonna weld it you need full good uniform penetration. I don't care if its X-ray or not. Do it right. Have done 1,000s of s.s. butt welds and the bigger the gap the better trust me
Reply:Originally Posted by slim83I personally would run a 5/32" - 3/16" gap. Run 1/8" 308 wire. 4 tack your joint. Also when tacking your pieces after making your 1st tack and going to make second tack remember to ride your bubble high. Meaning don't tack it level because your tack will suck her outta level. Stainless will close up on you so weld your tightest 1/4 first. Then move to your opposite 1/4. You may also after you got your root in want to weld on the side opposite of your throat 1st each time you start a pass because pipe especially stainless will draw toward the throat side and before you know it your a 1/4" to 3/8" outta square. The reason I personally weld with such a large gap is so I ain't forcing my root in. The pipe will draw and by time your 1/2 through with welding your second quadrant 1/8" wire fits nicely in your gap. If your gonna weld it you need full good uniform penetration. I don't care if its X-ray or not. Do it right. Have done 1,000s of s.s. butt welds and the bigger the gap the better trust me
Reply:I've seen some of your work GTO. You are a good craftsman
Reply:Originally Posted by Fishinsin stationWhat ever gap you use, account for it shrinking
Reply:Weld the flanges inside and out.I use solar B flux on stainless pipe instead of purging.Feathered edge for the pipe. No land.Strong 3/32 root gap (to acount for expansion) and 3/32 wire for root and hot pass.Or, strong 1/8 gap and 1/8 rod for root.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:......Nickel gap and a Dime landing....works for me6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:Thank for all the advice so far.  Its noon and I have one flange on welded inside and out.....one tig pass.  The other end is beveled just like the ell.  I spent a few minutes with the pulsed spray on scrap.  I would rather tig.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Whoever said solar flux B, I owe you a couple of beers.    Pipe measures .350", so I figured a 3/8 fillet on the flange. It took 4passes.  For the ell  I used 3/32 filler for the root gap.  I kept a huge key hole as much a I could.  The up was easier than the flat to keep full pen.   I took pictures but cant post till tomorrow.  Thanks again. Allah's from my phone and fat fingersLast edited by David R; 02-23-2012 at 03:29 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Solar B flux is all we use at work for stainless pipe welding. Thats the conpany buys and thats what we use for our SS pipe cert test. Much faster than messing with purging.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I have both flanges on and one end of the ell completely done.  It looks pretty good.  Tomorrow I get to line up the flanges and make sure I have a true 90*.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I I had to turn it in my bandsaw.   I put the flanges on the cut ends, good thing.  Factory edges were saved for me.  It took about 45 minutes to get the angle on one end of the pipe.   I used a sliding T bevel to copy the elbow.  Just a thin land.  I rolled the pipe on the saw horses.  I could just get a turn on it with the ground clamped to the end of the pipe.   When I had it plumb 90* apart, I tacked the flange on. Close up.   Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Root pass.    I used the arc to burn a keyhole as I made the first pass. Flange 4 passes only cleaned up with a stainless wire shoe brush.CapCleaned upLast edited by David R; 02-24-2012 at 07:31 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I really hope you two holed the flange,
Reply:How's the level across the pipes?
Reply:I got a zit.   I must not have cleaned up the pipe good enough.   Steam was coming out of that valcano.   I ground it off twice.   The last time I made sure the pipe was stone cold.   That worked.Out the door it went.    Tough to get on the truck.  I have a small forklift, so I had him back into my shop under the pipe held up by that and a chain hoist.How long should it have taken me?  I used about 5 lbs of 3/32 308L.    I see what you are talking about with the big gap.   The guy picking it up said nice welds.Its going to be used for steam.  I told them I used solar flux B in the elbow and it was still there.  Only the last joint which was a 5G for me.  3 passes bottom to top alternating spotsWho says an arcmaster 185 is a hobby welder?  I used most of the amps it has.     I found my self pushing on the pedal  for more that was not there when starting or re starting.Last edited by David R; 02-24-2012 at 07:52 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.Originally Posted by Fishinsin stationI really hope you two holed the flange,
Reply:Eh you have some play in the bolts, stainless is fun, where I work we have a 250k plasma 4 axis we cut all stainless and carbon pipe on it.... I'd post pictures of my work if i could
Reply:i was reading this post to learn some tips for stuff i may do in the future but i was somewhat confused by some terminology. could someone please clarify what exactly the landing is? thank you jaymiller bobcat 250 ntsouth bend metal latheClausing verticle millrikon 17" bandsaweverlast 250exharris oxyfuel set upspeedglass AD helmet with adflo power respirator.
Reply:Originally Posted by firedup198i was reading this post to learn some tips for stuff i may do in the future but i was somewhat confused by some terminology. could someone please clarify what exactly the landing is? thank you jay
Reply:thank you for clarifying thatmiller bobcat 250 ntsouth bend metal latheClausing verticle millrikon 17" bandsaweverlast 250exharris oxyfuel set upspeedglass AD helmet with adflo power respirator.
Reply:That "volcano" on your slip on flanges happens from time to time. You are trapping some air inside the joint so your last spot will likely have that happen. If you let it cool before you seal it up it helps too. I would have fluxcored that, much faster, but tig is a whole lot more fun. On somethingthat size, I run about 1/8" gap, 3/32 rod for root, then 1/8" rod for the rest. As far as time goes, everyones speed is different. I'd say an average guy should be able to do that in 8 hours tops. That includes cut, prep, fix and weld. How'd you do? Got any pictures of the root inside the pipe? I've never used that solar flux, only purged. How is the solar flux? WIll the weld look the same as a purged weld? Good job!!Last edited by freshintulsa; 02-26-2012 at 11:39 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RIts going to be used for steam.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88Uh-Oh.  Welded steam pipe with no certs and no post-weld inspection is not something I would ever want to work around.I would make sure you are not liable for any failures.
Reply:The other end I wiped down with brake clean inside and out.  The brakleen was smoking from the chips and possible mixing with the coolant from my band saw.   This end I just wiped with a clean rag.    Next time its an alcohol based solvent to wipe down the pipe and flange.    When it blew, steam came out.If  I had the proper flux core I may have done that.  I tried pulsed spray with tri mix and .030 308L wire.  Not enough confidence to do a 5g, so I tigged it.   Thanks for the 8 hours thing.   I have no pipe jacks, just used saw horses, shims, levels, a forklift and  chain falls that only goes back and forth on the beam in the shop.  It took me about 16 hours start to finish including loading and unloading.Solar flux was aswesome.  When I put the first flange on, after the first pass I had no sugaring on the inside, but almost.  There was a small dark ring inside the pipe.  Next I used the solar flux B and put on 3 more passes.   You could not tell I welded any more looking at the inside of  the pipe.   I cooled the flange some with wet rags between passes so I do not cook anything.My son is in tech school.  He did a 2" 5G with 3" long  cupons.  He said they purged it for 2 minutes.   He figures it would have taken a whole (320 cf)  bottle of argon to do this job.  Probably right. No pictures of the inside of the root pass.  It was not a bead in the pipe all the way around.  It was not half assed either.  I ran a key hole almost all the way around.  There were places I had to use all t he TA185 had to keep it open.  I went from the bottom up on each side.   Did some "crunches" holding my head up off  the creeper so I could see.  I felt it later.  I am 51.  This is only the third pipe I have ever welded and the biggest.I leaned a LOT here too on this job.  Thanks to every one.  If I can get another one of these, I will jump on it.  Originally Posted by freshintulsaThat "volcano" on your slip on flanges happens from time to time. You are trapping some air inside the joint so your last spot will likely have that happen. If you let it cool before you seal it up it helps too. I would have fluxcored that, much faster, but tig is a whole lot more fun. On somethingthat size, I run about 1/8" gap, 3/32 rod for root, then 1/8" rod for the rest. As far as time goes, everyones speed is different. I'd say an average guy should be able to do that in 8 hours tops. That includes cut, prep, fix and weld. How'd you do? Got any pictures of the root inside the pipe? I've never used that solar flux, only purged. How is the solar flux? WIll the weld look the same as a purged weld? Good job!!
Reply:Why in the hell would you use solar flux on the slip on flange ends. Are you serious? Seems like a waste.  The 90 I can see why. Lmao it never seems to amaze me with wannabes
Reply:Originally Posted by David RMy son is in tech school.  He did a 2" 5G with 3" long  cupons.  He said they purged it for 2 minutes.   He figures it would have taken a whole (320 cf)  bottle of argon to do this job.  Probably right.
Reply:Originally Posted by slim83Why in the hell would you use solar flux on the slip on flange ends. Are you serious? Seems like a waste.  The 90 I can see why. Lmao it never seems to amaze me with wannabes
Reply:Didn't really intend to come off as a jerk but I did. You actually did a good job brother and am sure you will land some more. Good luck in the future. Sorry for being a Richard cranium. P.S.  no premondonna here
Reply:Obviously no biggie.  :fyyff   I wish this would come out like it does on the ADV rider  web site.  Its a smiley flipping the bird.  Its the "Inmates salute" I looked at your work under profile.  Good stuff.No harm no foul.DavidLast edited by David R; 02-27-2012 at 08:23 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.