Iditarod dog sled race project(RUSH JOB)

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I have a customer that is running the iditarod dog sled race and he needs a little something built. The issue I am curious about we were talking fabing it out of mild steel and then putting a couple stainless ears on it. I know I've welded them together in the past and never had issues but on 1000 mile race I don't need him having an issue with one of my projects. I understand the mild steel filler can rust but thats about it isn't it?Visions SteelWasilla Alaskahttp://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=c32ed1320fwelderstourchessawsgrinders
Reply:That's one part. There are other differences in properties, hardness, toughness, etc. You could use stainless filler, could you not?City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Yes I think I have a roll of 316 solid wireVisions SteelWasilla Alaskahttp://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=c32ed1320fwelderstourchessawsgrinders
Reply:Also be aware that some steels don't 'like' cold weather.  Look up about the Liberty ships  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship  and the part about "Problems".  Specifically stress concentrators, embrittlement, and ductile-to-brittle transition temperature.So, like tanglediver  said, in addition to rust issues there may also be things like hardness and toughness (usually related, but not necessarily on a 1:1 basis).Also, 309 is the usual filler of choice for joining mild steel to something like 304 stainless.  If the stainless piece is some other alloy, then a different filler may be better/required.Also be aware of the shielding gas if doing GMAW (aka MIG).  The gas -does- have an efffect on the properties of the weld AND the weld metal.So, why do you/he need/want to weld stainless ears to some plain mild steel?  Would all stainless or all plain steel or all chrome-moly be better choices?  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I don't intend for this to sound snobbish or condescending, but why not call the filler metal supplier and find out from the engineers & metallurgists instead of asking here?  We would love to know the answer, but they've got panels of trained professionals just sitting by the phone for the purposes of answering questions like this, and many of us can only speculate as to the potential problems.Hobart Stickmate LX AC/DC, Millermatic 252 & 30A spoolgun, Thermal Arc 185 TIG, Miller BWESmith Oxy-AcBridgeport 2J , South Bend 42" 9AHusky 7.5 HP 22.3 CFM 80 gal compressor
Reply:The primary issues, in most cases, welding SS to mild, are corrosion problems.   It's generally important, assuming you don't want to paint the SS, to carefully tape off the SS past the weld, and paint the mild steel AND the weld with a good corrosion-resistant paint.   As far as strength, I would have no problems welding SS to mild, using 308, 309, or 316, even in a pinch, using regular MS wire.   Especially for a two-week race, corrosion shouldn't be a problem.
Reply:The primary concern with a SS to CS weld for the Iditarod would probably be weld and HAZ toughness, since it will be cold and there will be cyclic stresses.  A 300 series SS is tough and ductile at low temperature, so no problem with that.  A plain carbon steel with a carbon content is less than 0.3 wrt %, like 1020 (0.2 wt % C), will have fairly good toughness, although it depends on temperature because there is a ductile to brittle transistion temperature where the properties drop off suddenly.  The HAZ of the CS will have less toughness, particularly if welded with too much heat input, making a large HAZ with large grains size, or if cooled too rapidly (quenched), potentially forming hard/brittle martensite.  309 filler is a good choice because when mixed with SS and CS the weld remains non-hardenable and ductile, where as 308 or 316 could result in a hardenable brittle weld depending on the SS/CS mixture in the weld.So, really it's not a good idea to weld this with CS filler, or 308/316 filler.
Reply:Depending on the type of joint and the size of the contact surface, a high-strength silver solder might be a good solution. In any case, keep in mind the different expansion rates of stainless vs mild steel. Will that cause any stresses in your design?[I didn't check that bottom link to see if it showed your 'project']
Reply:My question to the OP would be that if you have that many questions about doing the weld, should you even be doing it?  Sounds to me like a lot of unanswered questions and a really crappy way to lose a race, or worse.
Reply:I'm doing it out of all mild steel and will put some hard facing rod or maybe the silver solder on a ground sharp edge to keep from wearing.  Can't take any pics cause it's his little secret for this years race. The guy's already got an advantage anyways he's already won it several timesVisions SteelWasilla Alaskahttp://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=c32ed1320fwelderstourchessawsgrinders
Reply:Originally Posted by IRONARTISTI'm doing it out of all mild steel and will put some hard facing rod or maybe the silver solder on a ground sharp edge to keep from wearing.  Can't take any pics cause it's his little secret for this years race. The guy's already got an advantage anyways he's already won it several times
Reply:If I had to choose between the 316 filler and er70s-2, I'd stick with the mild steel. Sometimes the mixing of the SS filler into the mild steel can cause the mild steel to crack or tear a little easier, because the HAZ and the weld itself will not necessarily stay ductile. The issue for the mild steel filler on the SS is the corrosion factor, but if it's painted well, then it's not going to be a big issue. The er70 filler will keep more good properties in this choice if I was to choose a filler. I'd rather use 309, but run what you have.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by wannabe_welderJeff King?
Reply:we weld ss and mild together all the time...308 filler rod..paint the heated area and yer good to go
Reply:Pulser covered all you need to know on this one.
Reply:Originally Posted by dieselbeefwe weld ss and mild together all the time...308 filler rod..paint the heated area and yer good to go
Reply:thats probly a good idea.altho welding them would probly be sufficient i think bolting them on will make for an easier field repair if needed
Reply:Next saturday is the cerimonial start of the iditarod and sunday they start the race in Willow. Well here's a pic of my customer and 4x champ Martin Buser holding his new invention he had visioned and I built. He came to me with the idea I stayed on it and got them done, guess they must work cause he came to me to build some more.GO Martin!!!!! Last edited by IRONARTIST; 03-01-2010 at 03:21 PM.Visions SteelWasilla Alaskahttp://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=c32ed1320fwelderstourchessawsgrinders
Reply:any more pics of that truck?..lol..sorry
Reply:Let's see some close-ups ... both of the parts and the truck.  Nice paint job there ....
Reply:Here's a pic of Martins slew brakes. Martin asked me if I'd like to run his beginner dogs to Nome, damn I hated saying I couldn't I had to go get all my teeth ripped out yesterday. Watch out next year though I just might be on the trail. And about the truck I have to run up to his place for some measurement soon I will get ya'll some pics of his mushing truck, sorry I didn't in the first place.Last edited by IRONARTIST; 03-03-2010 at 12:30 PM.Visions SteelWasilla Alaskahttp://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=c32ed1320fwelderstourchessawsgrinders
Reply:Ouch!  Why the extreme dental work?Okay, so these are brakes for the back of the sled, keep the dogs from pulling?  or just slowing down?
Reply:The dental thing is a genetic thing my gramps pulled all his own when he was about my age and I am to big of little girl to do that. I rip em myself when they were loose but the tight ones just couldn't do it.The brakes are to straighten out the sled during cross winds on the runs of glare ice sure hope they make the differance for him it's time he makes it under the burled arch in Nome first. I have 40'- of 5/8 x10" plate sheared to 10'- for fabricating sandwiched 3/4 tempered glass between that freestands with no top rail for deck guardrail, kinda overkill but thats what his arcitects drew up for him so thats what I will doHappy trails!Last edited by IRONARTIST; 03-04-2010 at 01:24 PM.Visions SteelWasilla Alaskahttp://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=c32ed1320fwelderstourchessawsgrinders
Reply:...OK...I get it...the 'hardfacing' was the giveaway....pretty tough trying to hard-face a piece of stainless....so yes, the 309 is considered the best 'fix' for stainless to carbon...I've used 309 for all kinds of pressure vessels and food-handling equipment...SMAW, TIG, MIG, and flux-core....argon for TIG, Tri-mix for stainless MIG, C02 for the Flux-core......the welding store should help you out ok with the correct gas if you're going to Mig the stuff....Helium/Argon/Oxygen I think it is...  I've also used a good deal of Stoody brand 'Stellite' for hardfacing...just butter it on with an Oxy-Acet torch....used it to make 'Hot-Shoes' for the dirt-track motorcycle guys....Dougspair
Reply:here's a link to the race, Martin started in 37th position and currently in 3rdHappy Trailshttp://iditarod.com/race/race/currentstandings.htmlVisions SteelWasilla Alaskahttp://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=c32ed1320fwelderstourchessawsgrinders