Stainless Steel Railling!

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Hi guys, i want to start really soon on making SS railling and guard rail, maybe buy a machine for learning and bring at my shop, i asked some guys at my shop about how to work with SS in a shop where you work with black steel, and one guy told me hes method was laying out the rail on the normal table wich is a steel table (first contamination i see) and he do the layout with chalk direct on the table, same as a normal steel railling and after he as to put some stuff during the finnish step with some product because it was contaminated (and he said ''but it can even rust'') haha WTF?, and the other guy (more ''accurate'' and ''soft'' worker) tell me hes method was put a large carboard (the same for doing templates) same size as the table and do the layout on this with lead pencil! i like that method because its sounds logic to me for keeping the SS in perfect condition but it look complicated for fitting and clamp the pieces and welding, so im wondering what are the normal ''standard'' method for working with SS!?Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:Best I have seen is a steel framed table with several layers of 5/8 plywood on top.  3 inch finishing nails driven in on the chalk lines.  No matter what you do you will have to clean and passivate.  If the pieces are bent to the shape and fishmouths correct there is no force required.  No matter what Stainless has to be maintained especially outside.  That means special stainless cleaners on a regular basis or electropolish which is expensive.  This is one reason some people are upset when hand prints appear on their nice stainless finished appliances.
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechman If the pieces are bent to the shape and fishmouths correct there is no force required.
Reply:I just do all my stainless work on my regular steel tables- but I do send it all out to be electropolished afterwards.You can, indeed, embed steel particles into stainless steel while working on it, and then the particles of mild will rust- not the stainless- but it looks like the stainless is rusting.Use brand new grinding wheels, wire brushes, and sandpaper. If you use em on mild, they will get contaminated and then mess up your stainless. Dont grind mild steel and let the sparks hit the stainless- they will stick, and rust.If you are very careful, and use a wooden table or cardboard covers, you might be able to just wire brush or scotchbrite at the end, and not electropolish. Forklift forks, crowbars, hammers- all of these can leave invisible bits of mild that will rust.Stainless moves and warps a lot more than mild when you weld it, so the idea of not clamping anything doesnt work for me- I still need to clamp things, bend things, and jack em into shape as I go. My general rule of thumb for stainless is that the material costs around 5 times mild steel, and the finished cost is around 2 to 3 times what mild fabrication costs.Everything about stainless is more expensive- you need better, and more expensive, blades, bits, sanding and grinding wheels, and they get used up faster. Its just slower and more expensive at every step. There have been years when I have fabbed 3 to 5 tons of stainless. Its slow and fussy. Its harder to bend, harder to cut, harder to forge. Easy to weld, though- we tig everything. You need bigger and badder machines for bending or cutting or rolling it.
Reply:If you have to clamp and force things to get it tacked together something is wrong.  Your tubing is bent, Your lengths are incorrect.  Your fishmouths are incorrect.  Best and fastest rail shop I saw in all my years used headless nails on wood.  All the tacking spatter fell on the wood then you blew it away with an air gun before setting up for the next railing.  No fussing with a grinder taking off spatter from the table.
Reply:If all you are doing is simple grids of pipe rail, no, you shouldnt need much clamping. Although stainless will still move much more than mild steel, so you need to do a lot of tacking first.I seldom do anything anywhere near that simple, though. First, I usually hot forge texture all the pipe, which means it needs some substantial straightening after that- delicate hossfeld work, and schedule 40 stainless dont move to easy.Then, I am often adding flat bar, round bar, and other big sections to the pipe, but on one side only, and so you inevitably get warpage from welds on one side but not the other.so lots and lots of tricks, prebending, clamping, and jacking are sometimes required to get perfect fitups.This picture shows some 8' railing sections I did a while ago- there were 8 of em like this, all unique. Attached Images
Reply:I can see all kinds of problems.  Typical architectural creation.  As long as someone pays for the time and trouble.   I tip my hat.   It reminds me of some grid work that we did for some sort of glass blocks.  It was no more than four by four and had over 300 feet of weld in each frame.  Two 1000 dollars suits came in, looked at it, then left.  A few days later it was in the garbage.
Reply:no, not a typical architectural creation- I design and build all my own work. and I am not an architect. nobody to blame this on but me.This was part of 550 linear feet of stainless and bronze railing I did, and no suits had anything to say about it. Part of it went up in 2002, part of it 2004, and its all still there, not in the garbage.Its in a very hight traffic public location, and there has been virtually no vandalism or damage- ONE brass rivet was broken, out of something like 10,000 rivets. I have done over 20 projects like this all over the US- and I always design and build it all.so any problems you see are all in my brain. But the actual metalwork is square, plumb, level, and tough as nails.Here is some more of it before install. Attached ImagesLast edited by Ries; 03-11-2012 at 04:46 PM.
Reply:That is some pretty work!Sent from my Kindle Fire using TapatalkMiller Maxstar 200 DX - Syncrowave 200 - MillerMatic 200 - Bobcat 225 NT - Spoolmate 3035/SGA 1003 X Lincoln Power MIGs (200, 215XT 255)3 X Lincoln SP's (100, 125, 130)Thermal Arc 181i (spool gun and TIG torch)HT Powermax 1000 G3