AC vs AC/DC stick welder

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I'm real new - I've welded (if you can call it that) once with a friend's welder the other day. He gave me a lesson. I would like to do some maintenance & repair welding around the farm. I've been told that a stick welder, tho a little harder to get the hang of than a MIG, would be the way to go if I want strong welds on old stuff that does not have to look pretty. My question is: what are the advantages of paying for a unit that does DC in addition to AC - like what can I do with the Lincoln tomestone 1297 that I can't do with the 1170? Any comments would be welcome.Thanksfirhead
Reply:DC is a more stable, nicer arc. All electrodes run on DC, whereas some do not run on AC and some are harder to run on AC. You need to be more aware of moisture, ie; sweaty hands & moisture on ground, because it's easier to get zapped. My Shopmaster has AC and I think I tried it once."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by firheadI would like to do some maintenance & repair welding around the farm. I've been told that a stick welder, tho a little harder to get the hang of than a MIG, would be the way to go if I want strong welds on old stuff that does not have to look pretty.
Reply:AC... less heat input for the same current.  It takes a 200 amp AC welder to do what a 150 Amp DC welder can do.  Limited rod selection.  AC welders can only do certain alloys like 6011, 6013, 7014, but nothing else.  Deposition rate on AC is slower so any weld takes longer.  It's harder to strike an arc on an AC welder.  They tend to shock you if your gloves are wet.There is really only one advantage to an AC stick welder and that is that it doesn't experience the effects of arc blow.  But, that is one minor advantage backed by many disadvantages.  Basically, AC welders are for hobbiests and DC welders are for welders.  DC welders are absolutely worth the price difference.Funny, you pay more to get a DC stick welder but you pay more to get an AC TIG welder.
Reply:Something else to think about is that, you may not upgrade much as you go along. I still own a ac only machine 30  years after starting to weld.I changed welders, up graded in amperage, added welders but still my main is an ac machine. I put the 1/4 panels on and floor in my 72 charger (still got it) did countless projects. Very uefull around the house and farm. So buy a used stick welder that you can afford and learn. A used welder is gonna be less than 200 bucks so not a big deal more important is to know how to use it. Chances are they will come and go but keep in mind it is not allways important what you can do with it if you dont really need it. Meaning you can now buy a machine that can arc,mig,tig do up your pants and tuck your winkie in but if all you need is to stick steel together on the farm buy a cheap used welder and learn how to use it really well.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:For the occasional fix er' up welding jobs, AC will work just fine. Get something with at least 200A. DC is good, and if you plan to be welding often, you should invest in a DC machine. AC (as you've already found out) is cheaper too.  They're built tough, there's virtually nothing to go wrong with them.-AlexSears/Craftsman 230A Buzzy BoxSears/Craftsman 180A Buzzy BoxChicago Electric 80A InverterALL STICK...ALL THE TIME!I spent a lot of time with the square peg and round hole.
Reply:I'll just add my .02cents worth of opinion on the matter.  Although i LOVE MIG welders and the way the weld bead looks, I find that I'm using my good 'ol Lincoln "Tombstone" AC/DC-225 welder more often.  I LOVE that machine and I would NEVER EVER in a million years get rid of that machine!!!!  My Lincoln 216  Mig welder (another battle TANK) is AWESOME, but I find that I'm probably going to sell it and down grade to a smaller Miller 211.  Anyway, I'm going off topic here.....Back to your original question.  Ask yourself a few questions....  Are you a professional or soon to be professional welder?  Are you working on an assembly line cranking out stuff?  or, are you like 85% of the people on this website, purely "hobbiest" and "farm/ranch"  type welders?  I for one, am a hobbiest welder that makes everything from gates, 4x4 roll cages for friends, winch bumpers, tool stands and benches, steel garage shelving, patio furniture, lawn art, horse coral fencing, etc...  I use both the migs and my Lincoln Tombstone on those projects too.   I've been using my stick Tombstone welder more lately, because it's soooo much easier to pull out, clamp on a rod and get my weld on!!!!!  No gas, no wire to worry about, no hassle!   If I made a living out of stick welding, well yeah I'd worry about getting a DC high output, engine driven welder then.  That being said, yeah I know all the professionals here say that "DC is better", but I find I rarely use the DC feature on my Lincoln.  It was explained to me that IF I had a bigger machine (higher amps), I'd like the DC feature more.  Well, no disrespect to the "better" welders than me out there, but I love welding with AC and I have no complaints about using AC 95% of my "stick" time.  The Lincoln Tombstone puts out 225 amps on AC and only 125 amps on DC.  I now only use the DC- feature when welding thin metal like 3/16" and with 6013 rods.  Other than that, I use AC for every other type of rod.  I prefer the AC setting almost exclusively as mentioned earlier.  One poster here said that with an AC only machine, you're "limited" to using only "6011, 6013 & 7014."  Well, that's not an accurate statement.  There is a low hydrogen rod made specially for AC welders called "7018-AC."  Go to ANY home depot, Lowes, Tractor Supply, Shamrock Supply etc... and you'll find Lincoln or Hobart brand 7018-AC rods up the ying-yang!  Guess what?  Those 7018-AC rods work B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L-L-Y for the home, shop, farm and hobbiest!  Adding to the above list of rods, the AC "only" welder can also use with great success the 7018-AC's already mentioned as well as 7014's and the high deposition 7024 rods.  What other rods does a non-professional welder need than the ones listed above????  For home, farm, ranch etc... 6011, 6013 and 7018-AC are probably what's used 95% of the time out there for all the repair and garden type projects.  The 6010's (5P's) are for the consumate pipe-welder and it's mandatory to use DC only.  Are you a pipe welder?  Probably not,  so you'll never need a 6010 rod.  If you do need a 6010 rod, guess what?  You can use the 6011's!  They were designed to basically mimic the same weld characteristics of 6010, but they have added flux features to run on AC only machines!!!!  Sure, you could set your welder on DC and use any "AC" rod  too but the manufacturers add some stuff to the flux coating so the rods work on AC and DC.  You'll probably never ever use anything else but 6011, 6013 and 7018-A.  A BIG "maybe" for using, 7014 & 7024 rods with your AC  home stick welder.  I'd beg to differ with anyone that thinks otherwise.  Again, I'm not talking about a professional welder that makes a living burning stick and needing all types of welding rod for different types of steels, aluminum and stainless stuff.  As far as welding machines go, you really can't go wrong with a Lincoln Buzz Box AC or AC/DC welder.   I also like the Hobart "Stickmate" because it and the Miller Thunderbolt have both 225 AC amps and 150 DC amps, vs. the Lincoln's 225 AC / 125 DC amps.    That being said, I just love the "old school" looks of the Tombstone Lincoln and it's been around since Noah was a Lieutenant in the Israeli Navy!  If you can afford the AC/DC option, go ahead and get it.  But if you can't, the AC only feature will produce beautiful welds with the proper practice.  There isn't much you can't weld with an AC only buzz box.  In the hands of a competent and trained welder, you can weld up mowers, bumpers, go-karts, wagons, angle iron, channel iron, patio furniture, tool boxes, garden tool repair, gates, fence lines, farm animal corals, tools etc... can all be had with an AC buzz box.   If you're really good and trainined, you can fabricate trailers, hitches, go-karts, vehicle suspensions etc.... Just practice practice practice first!!!  Get some basic training either formally from a school, or an experienced welder.     I love the AC feature and it's what I use most.  I've just gotten used to it I guess.  Last edited by SuperArc; 03-11-2012 at 04:41 AM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:DC is better.  Easier arc starts, smoother arc and gives you more options on electrodes.  e.g. AC will not run any aluminum stick electrodes.Cost?Used transformer-based machines: AC @ 225 amps is $100 - $200, AC 225/DC140 is $200 - $400New IGBT solid-state machines:  AC is not available.  DC @140 to 200 amps is $130 - $375Frankly it's a tough decision:a) lay down $120 for a used Lincoln AC 225 that will last forever, orb) lay down $130 for a new Chicom DC 200 amps that will last ???Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VDC is better.  Easier arc starts, smoother arc and gives you more options on electrodes.  e.g. AC will not run any aluminum stick electrodes.
Reply:Thank you all for your input; its nice to run across a group who is serious about exploring the subject matter in question. I'll be back to tap you guys for more help after I acquire equipment and start my learning process.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArc Albeit, I'm sure some old timers use stick on aluminum,
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_tespecially after some ****-head varmint hunters shoot up your neighbors aluminum irrigation pipe!!*don't take this out of context, I'm all for responsible hunting and target practicing, unfortunately the "taste of the few" lingers with land owners.This example was posted to give an example of the versitility of DC vs AC.
Reply:Originally Posted by firheadThank you all for your input; its nice to run across a group who is serious about exploring the subject matter in question. I'll be back to tap you guys for more help after I acquire equipment and start my learning process.