Force required to crush steel pipe?

admin

Hi allI have a project in which I need to flatten the ends of some 1-1/4 inch SCH 40 (1.66 OD X .140 wall) carbon steel pipe. The flat part needs to be about 4 inches long.My question is how much force will be required to do this? I'm hoping to be able to make a press from a bottle jack to be able to do this but have no idea what size jack will be required.I would appreciate some thoughts and suggestions on this one as I don't really know where to start in calculating it.ThanksDanny
Reply:Heat it up and smack it with a hammer!If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Ah perhaps I should of mentioned I'd like to avoid that option... i need to do it about 600 times.Danny
Reply:Even though I have my strength of materials final tomorrow, I have absolutely no desire to do the calculations. But I would have a hard time imagining that any bottle jack you can find wouldnt be able to crush the pipe, its pretty small.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by DannyAh perhaps I should of mentioned I'd like to avoid that option... i need to do it about 600 times.Danny
Reply:It would be interesting to see if a 30 ton rental log splitter would have enough guts to mash those ends.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by DannyHi allI have a project in which I need to flatten the ends of some 1-1/4 inch SCH 40 (1.66 OD X .140 wall) carbon steel pipe. The flat part needs to be about 4 inches long.My question is how much force will be required to do this? I'm hoping to be able to make a press from a bottle jack to be able to do this but have no idea what size jack will be required.I would appreciate some thoughts and suggestions on this one as I don't really know where to start in calculating it.ThanksDanny
Reply:Hi allThanks for the responses so far, to give you an idea of what I'm wanting to achieve i have a picture of the same thing that somebody else has done on some EMT however, which is like butter compared.I would prefer to do this myself, even if it means buying a large press, I just need to know what force i need. There is no rush for these at all as its for my own use.ThanksDanny Attached Images
Reply:Forget the press.  If you have 600 to do and want to do it yourself, find an ironworker.  You can flatten and nip the corners.  Then punch the holes when you're done.  The bonus is that you will still have the ironworker for the next project.If the iron worker cost $4k (I think uni-hydro has a model in that price range), flattening, nipping, and punching would cost you about $6 per end.  Sounds reasonable to me.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmForget the press.  If you have 600 to do and want to do it yourself, find an ironworker.  You can flatten and nip the corners.  Then punch the holes when you're done.  The bonus is that you will still have the ironworker for the next project.If the iron worker cost $4k (I think uni-hydro has a model in that price range), flattening, nipping, and punching would cost you about $6 per end.  Sounds reasonable to me.
Reply:If you are set on doing this cold, you want a powered hydraulic press, not a bottle jack.my guess is 20 to 30 tons would be about right.With a bottle jack you would be pumping for days and days on end, and look like Popeye when you were done.I have a 30 ton press, but even a hydraulic press is very slow- I wouldnt do this with my press.HOT is the ticket. Especially if you have 600 to do- thats even more reason to do em hot, as its so much faster and easier.I would be able to knock out 600 or these in around 6 hours, I would guess, using my propane forge and my 80lb power hammer.Figger at least double that amount of time to do em cold on a big motorized hydraulic press. And most presses only have a round die on the end, the size of the cylinder, which means you would also have to build tooling for squashing 4" of pipe- pretty massive tooling, too. No tooling needed on a power hammer, just the normal flat dies.Find a local blacksmith, and they can knock this out for you in a couple of days.Or build your own forge, about a hundred bucks, and a Kinyon style air hammer- mebbe $500 to $700 if you buy the parts new, less if you scrounge.Info on both is widely available at places like iforgeiron.com
Reply:Originally Posted by RiesIf you are set on doing this cold, you want a powered hydraulic press, not a bottle jack.my guess is 20 to 30 tons would be about right.With a bottle jack you would be pumping for days and days on end, and look like Popeye when you were done.I have a 30 ton press, but even a hydraulic press is very slow- I wouldnt do this with my press.HOT is the ticket. Especially if you have 600 to do- thats even more reason to do em hot, as its so much faster and easier.I would be able to knock out 600 or these in around 6 hours, I would guess, using my propane forge and my 80lb power hammer.Figger at least double that amount of time to do em cold on a big motorized hydraulic press. And most presses only have a round die on the end, the size of the cylinder, which means you would also have to build tooling for squashing 4" of pipe- pretty massive tooling, too. No tooling needed on a power hammer, just the normal flat dies.Find a local blacksmith, and they can knock this out for you in a couple of days.Or build your own forge, about a hundred bucks, and a Kinyon style air hammer- mebbe $500 to $700 if you buy the parts new, less if you scrounge.Info on both is widely available at places like iforgeiron.com
Reply:I think the four inches was length of the flat part, not the width. At least that's how I read it. "Four inches long"
Reply:He said 4" long flat end not 4" wide
Reply:Originally Posted by Birdwell4I think the four inches was length of the flat part, not the width. At least that's how I read it. "Four inches long"
Reply:The tube in the photo looks like EMT, not schedule 40.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Dear All,I have a simmilar application,What force I need to have for flattening (crushing) 20 inch Dia, 12mm thickness and 750mm length For M.S. standard pipe API 5L grade X60?Please answer me also.....
Reply:Originally Posted by viralpurohitDear All,I have a simmilar application,What force I need to have for flattening (crushing) 20 inch Dia, 12mm thickness and 750mm length For M.S. standard pipe API 5L grade X60?Please answer me also.....
Reply:Originally Posted by forhire20 inch Dia? or 20mm? Based on the thickness I'll assume 20" (500mm). Will the flattened section be 750mm? You'll need one big press.
Reply:Originally Posted by viralpurohitYes sir,let me clear, Dia = 20 inch (508mm) and Length = 750 mmI appreciate your correct answer. I will need a big press but can you tell me the force or any formula you use for similar application.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhire You'll need one big press.
Reply:@ nadogail....danny stated in that post "i have a picture of the same thing that somebody else has done on some EMT however, which is like butter compared."i would say if you are not in a position to buy an iron worker then you will have to go with one of the options listed above....my first choice would be doing it myself with either a forge or a rosebud and power hammer or take them to a fab shop and expect as was quoted above to spend $6 or more per flattening....i think my buddy charges the public $10 per....idk its free for me 8)is this for a ranch or some farm application? if so maybe you could offer the fab shop 1/2 a pig or something of the likes....
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireAssuming this is a two point load (top and bottom) the pipe will flatten fairly easily. Here's my crazy uneducated guess. Assuming 1/2 plate normally air breaks to 90 degrees in a 4" die at 24 tons per foot or about 12.5 tons in a 8" die. My guess would be about 10 tons per foot (4.8 tons per side) or under 30 tons for the length. The problem will be to have a large enough press because the flattened part will be about 31" across. This URL has a formula you can use that might work.http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=223411
Reply:I request all exparts to check my calculation and give me your feedback.If you find any problem with the formula and calculation, please guide me.Thank you all.
Reply:Originally Posted by viralpurohitYour answer is about 30 tons and from formula i am getting 51 tons.Originally Posted by forhireSat down with my wife (the math wiz) and we ran your numbers. 51 tons that you calculated is correct, that's what we got also. My original estimate was a wild, crazy guess based on bending 1/2" plate. I didn't use any formula to come up with my original estimate.  That's why I posted the link to the formula. Good job on the math. My wife made me verify the formula and I stumbled across this page of calculators:http://12.36.190.92/engineering/api/calculators.aspLook at:API Equation 1 Yield Strength Collapse PressureThe only unknown for me is that I would assume that the transition between the crushed zone and the not crushed zone may require more force than the 750mm crushed section alone. Not sure how to estimate that.
Reply:Dude you need a log splitter to do this job done.Log Splitter Ireland