Should a welding inspector have manual welding experience?

admin

Hello all, i am doing an assignment for school, and i would like everyone's opinions on something, preferably honest and well thought out.I would like to know what you all think about what sort of welding experience a welding inspector should have, some say none, some say many years, some say they should just be in touch with basics, etc.There are many positions in the welding industry which operate in concert, welders, welder/fitters, technicians, technologists, bachelor degree in welding engineering, and each one cannot know everything, but i would like to know what you all think the actual value of welding skill is for an inspector, if any.Thank you for any responses, preferably elaborate, and poll entries, they are much appreciated by me, and perhaps to cure your own curiosities on welding industry opinions on the matter.Last edited by snappy101; 03-02-2012 at 11:25 PM.
Reply:The original question posed can be answered in different ways. First I would have to ask what type of welding inspector are you talking about? It seems to me that every customer I work for becomes the first and most critical "inspector" I run into. But as I am not pressed to have my work "inspected" by a "certified welding inspector", other than at school, I will forego any in depth answer for the time being. Good luck with your school work. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Do you have to have welding experience to apply code?  No.  Does it help to understand and have experience with the various processes to which you are inspecting.  You bet.  But is that really going to change what is acceptable and not acceptable?  If you start having an appreciation for how difficult or how much skill it takes to do something, then are you going to 'go easy' on that particular welder?  If so, you are in the wrong line of work.As it stands AWS requires verifiable experience to take the CWI test.  Although it is waived for an Engineer with a 4 year degree I believe (Not sure, didn't go this route).  When I went to the take the test, there was a Civil Engineer and a Metallurgic Engineer taking the test as well.  I stayed in touch with the Civil, and he did not pass.  There is a sentiment within the industry that feels AWS is turning into a CWI mill.  Having taken the test fairly recently I can assure you that it is no joke, and no Joe McGee is going to walk in off the street and pass this test.Jay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:Yes, & the clueless Engineers should along with them.Every "X" welder CWI that I have worked with has been great.  The cubicle jockey types generally suck to deal with, especially when the weather is "icky"...Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:I've always been under the impression that the only way you can inspect someone else's work is to be able to perform the job yourself to the limit that your inspecting.JMO
Reply:This is a little of topic but but it was the first thing that came to mind while reading this.I am a HVAC tech here in MA.  When I install a oil burning appliance I am required to pull a permit from the local FD.  When the job is complete I or someone from my Co. is expected to stand the inspection.  That inspection could be from anyone available from the FD at the time the inspecion is required.  They come in with a little check list and say that looks nice, sign off and walk away.  How safe is that?
Reply:Originally Posted by 74hotrodI've always been under the impression that the only way you can inspect someone else's work is to be able to perform the job yourself to the limit that your inspecting.JMO
Reply:5 years minimum is a good amount....I know Tulsa Welding Schools CWI program will only accept you if you have a minimum of 5 years verifiable welding experience.Read my welding blog:http://weldeveryday.wordpress.com/
Reply:Should a welding inspector have manual welding experience?ABSOLUTELY!!!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:In Europe CWI's don't need any welding experience to take the test, I find it ... disturbing.I want to take the test myself in the near future, maybe find some better paying job , I think I'm gonna be one mean cwi, I can't wait to see one welder handing me the torch --------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:My weld inspector has welding experience in structural. He, admittedly can't and will never weld pipe. I dont think he should be able to do work on my level, but a welding background and a good understanding of metallurgical process helps me to have some respect for him. The last engineer turned CWI I had was a young kid right out of college with no welding experience. He was inspecting a tight spot weld (Not mine) that he couldnt even see with a mirror and hadnt a clue how my friend got in there. Then he asked him to "make it shiny". He was dressed in ripped up designer jeans and baggy as hell.I told that sucker he wouldnt inspect weld one of mine until he pulled up his damn pants and looked like a professional.The weld department head put him somewhere signing weld documents after that. haha. An engineer in a CWI position better have some welding background, I dont expect them to be able to do work on my level but they should be more than a paper pusher.UA Local 598
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverThe original question posed can be answered in different ways. First I would have to ask what type of welding inspector are you talking about? It seems to me that every customer I work for becomes the first and most critical "inspector" I run into. But as I am not pressed to have my work "inspected" by a "certified welding inspector", other than at school, I will forego any in depth answer for the time being. Good luck with your school work.
Reply:Originally Posted by jbyrdDo you have to have welding experience to apply code?  No.  Does it help to understand and have experience with the various processes to which you are inspecting.  You bet.  But is that really going to change what is acceptable and not acceptable?  If you start having an appreciation for how difficult or how much skill it takes to do something, then are you going to 'go easy' on that particular welder?  If so, you are in the wrong line of work.As it stands AWS requires verifiable experience to take the CWI test.  Although it is waived for an Engineer with a 4 year degree I believe (Not sure, didn't go this route).  When I went to the take the test, there was a Civil Engineer and a Metallurgic Engineer taking the test as well.  I stayed in touch with the Civil, and he did not pass.  There is a sentiment within the industry that feels AWS is turning into a CWI mill.  Having taken the test fairly recently I can assure you that it is no joke, and no Joe McGee is going to walk in off the street and pass this test.
Reply:Originally Posted by 74hotrodI've always been under the impression that the only way you can inspect someone else's work is to be able to perform the job yourself to the limit that your inspecting.JMO
Reply:Originally Posted by stefuelThis is a little of topic but but it was the first thing that came to mind while reading this.I am a HVAC tech here in MA.  When I install a oil burning appliance I am required to pull a permit from the local FD.  When the job is complete I or someone from my Co. is expected to stand the inspection.  That inspection could be from anyone available from the FD at the time the inspecion is required.  They come in with a little check list and say that looks nice, sign off and walk away.  How safe is that?
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauI agree with this assessment. If the one that is inspecting finds a fault, that person should be someone who has the skills to do the weld correctly with no faults. The most qualified person to inspect a weld is someone who can do that particular weld to meet or exceed weld inspection criteria.We had an engineer come to my job once to inspect welds, and when he showed me some that didn't pass his inspection, I told him I would go get the welding machine, hood, and rods and grind the welds out so he could do them right. He said "I can't weld, I only inspect them". He was only doing visual inspection on welds that had already been painted over. I still say the one best qualified to inspect is someone who can correctly do the weld him/herself. Now if it were someone doing x-ray inspections or some other in-depth type of evaluation of a weld, that may be a little different.I did not do the welds that this man was inspecting.
Reply:Originally Posted by DonoharmIn Europe CWI's don't need any welding experience to take the test, I find it ... disturbing.I want to take the test myself in the near future, maybe find some better paying job , I think I'm gonna be one mean cwi, I can't wait to see one welder handing me the torch
Reply:First let me preface my next paragraph with the fact my ability to weld with a wide variety of processes helps me understand what went wrong with various welds, while I am inspecting.  The majority of my business is welding repair (50%), training (25%), inspection/qualification (25%).When I am inspecting I have to consciously turn off the welder inside of me.  Does me having an intimate knowledge of a particular process make 3/8 of combined porosity diameter within one inch of your weld acceptable?Does my welding experience with the process you are using make your excessive undercut in a transverse cyclically loaded member any more acceptable?The fact is it does not.  I am not the one that was deemed "qualified" to perform that particular weld.  You are.On the flip side of that, if I say something is not acceptable, I better damn well be able to show in the code why not.  I don't play the game of "I just don't like the way it looks".  There are NO pretty welds or ugly welds.  Its either acceptable or not acceptable. I think the emotion from a lot of guys on here is from past experiences with CWIs that go beyond the box to which they are supposed to operate, or are insecure and over-compensate with attitude.Bottom line is that a CWI doesn't have to have welding expierence to apply code, but they better have respect for the industry and those working within it.Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkJay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:Originally Posted by jbyrdFirst let me preface my next paragraph with the fact my ability to weld with a wide variety of processes helps me understand what went wrong with various welds, while I am inspecting.  The majority of my business is welding repair (50%), training (25%), inspection/qualification (25%).When I am inspecting I have to consciously turn off the welder inside of me.  Does me having an intimate knowledge of a particular process make 3/8 of combined porosity diameter within one inch of your weld acceptable?Does my welding experience with the process you are using make your excessive undercut in a transverse cyclically loaded member any more acceptable?The fact is it does not.  I am not the one that was deemed "qualified" to perform that particular weld.  You are.On the flip side of that, if I say something is not acceptable, I better damn well be able to show in the code why not.  I don't play the game of "I just don't like the way it looks".  There are NO pretty welds or ugly welds.  Its either acceptable or not acceptable. I think the emotion from a lot of guys on here is from past experiences with CWIs that go beyond the box to which they are supposed to operate, or are insecure and over-compensate with attitude.Bottom line is that a CWI doesn't have to have welding expierence to apply code, but they better have respect for the industry and those working within it.Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by jbyrdAs it stands AWS requires verifiable experience to take the CWI test.  Although it is waived for an Engineer with a 4 year degree I believe (Not sure, didn't go this route).  When I went to the take the test, there was a Civil Engineer and a Metallurgic Engineer taking the test as well.  I stayed in touch with the Civil, and he did not pass.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88As of current, you can credit up to 2 years of education in a related field to the 5 years of experience required to become a CWI.  So a 4 year degree will only get you 2 years of credit, you still need to come up with the other 3 from field work.And to those of you who insist that a CWI must have welding experience, or be able to replicate the weld in order for you to accept critique are quite ignorant.  The responsibilities of a welding inspector and a certified welder are completely different  I don't, nor should I be required to, have to be able to perform your job.  But I can tell you if that porosity exceeds the code, or if the parameters on your machine are outside of the WPS.
Reply:It is imposable to remember all the welding inspectors I've been around over the years, but I don't remember a one of them that had any hands on welding experience! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Sn0border88,I looked it up and you are correct 2 yeas credit for a 4 year degree.  What the AWS does allow is in regards to verifiable work experience portion.  Just the planning or engineering of a weldment is sufficient work experience (3 years).  (B5.1 section 5.5).  So an engineer does not have to have ever run a bead.  I think its important to note is that there are a wide variety of duties that a CWI can be involved in.  Some will NEVER write a procedure, or qualify a welder, or ever inspect a weld.  I think a lot of engineering firms utilize the CWI program as an educational program.  I may be wrong.Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkJay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:Those who can't do it teach it. Those who can't teach it inspect it. If your still lost get into safety
Reply:Originally Posted by boilermonkeyThose who can't do it teach it. Those who can't teach it inspect it. If your still lost get into safetyI understand your sentiment Boilermonkey.  But blanket statements like that a rarely correct.  Your not an ignorant person.  I inspect, I weld for a living, and I am a part-time instructor at a community college.  Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkJay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:No offense jbyrd I was just hackin on the inspectors. A good inspector as I know you are makes for a smooth job on the other hand a bad one wrecks jobs. I have more stories of bad inspectors than I do good. Maybe cause the pain is more memorable than the pleasure. Just got off a shut in martinez forB and W looks like NorCal is the place to be right now
Reply:Oh I know no harm was meant.  I have been there done that with inspectors when I am in the welder capacity.  I consider myself a welder first, and a CWI second.  I inspect/qualify/write procedures for extra money (I am independent), I weld and train others in welding because I love it.Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkJay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:I can tell you that as a welder and a welding company owner i have very little respect for a CWI that can not and has not ever struck and arc.Even if a guy tells me that hes done some farm welding thats enough for me to atleast be willing to listen to what he says.the outside inspection firm i use their inspectors both broke out in the shipyards @19 years old.   worked up to submarine pressure hull welders and then graduated to CWI and NDT, before they retired with 25+ years experience when the ship yard was shut down.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieI can tell you that as a welder and a welding company owner i have very little respect for a CWI that can not and has not ever struck and arc.Even if a guy tells me that hes done some farm welding thats enough for me to atleast be willing to listen to what he says.the outside inspection firm i use their inspectors both broke out in the shipyards @19 years old.   worked up to submarine pressure hull welders and then graduated to CWI and NDT, before they retired with 25+ years experience when the ship yard was shut down.
Reply:i deal with this crap with our welding inspector at our utility company. He is very arrogant because hes "book smart" yet dosent know the first thing about welding. It makes working on high pressure steam lines a pain in the ****ing ***. YES they SHOULD have welding experience..... Try having someone question your methods because they've seen "another" technique in a book that they assume is superior because they know it.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingMachineYes, & the clueless Engineers should along with them.Every "X" welder CWI that I have worked with has been great.  The cubicle jockey types generally suck to deal with, especially when the weather is "icky"...
Reply:It is helpful to have some experience along with education of course the combination can vary depending on what part of the industry you are inspecting in, for myself the experience can drive me crazy when I see welds that technically pass but a welder with ten years experience should have done better (bad day)On occasion ones I have know for a couple of years would see me stop I'd look at the weld  them look at the weld, they grab the gouger and tell me where to go. Passable welds but not up to their normal standards and they admit afterwards they were just waiting to see the look on my face.As for welding I can or should say I have welded but inspecting every day or doing up procedures means I have welded about two feet in six years and only enough to try and solve a production problem or show a technique that may be easier or better for a particular situation.I have helped with training engineers to get their inspectors certification and some are good others not so much. Attitude plays a part but so does understanding how things go together, if they have never worked with their hands or even assembled a simple model car or something similar then they have a difficullt time and usually require more in depth explanations and physical examples of what is and is not acceptable.john
Reply:Originally Posted by Pressure_Welderi deal with this crap with our welding inspector at our utility company. He is very arrogant because hes "book smart" yet dosent know the first thing about welding. It makes working on high pressure steam lines a pain in the ****ing ***. YES they SHOULD have welding experience..... Try having someone question your methods because they've seen "another" technique in a book that they assume is superior because they know it.
Reply:Originally Posted by jnoonIt is helpful to have some experience along with education of course the combination can vary depending on what part of the industry you are inspecting in, for myself the experience can drive me crazy when I see welds that technically pass but a welder with ten years experience should have done better (bad day)On occasion ones I have know for a couple of years would see me stop I'd look at the weld  them look at the weld, they grab the gouger and tell me where to go. Passable welds but not up to their normal standards and they admit afterwards they were just waiting to see the look on my face.As for welding I can or should say I have welded but inspecting every day or doing up procedures means I have welded about two feet in six years and only enough to try and solve a production problem or show a technique that may be easier or better for a particular situation.I have helped with training engineers to get their inspectors certification and some are good others not so much. Attitude plays a part but so does understanding how things go together, if they have never worked with their hands or even assembled a simple model car or something similar then they have a difficullt time and usually require more in depth explanations and physical examples of what is and is not acceptable.john
Reply:Snappy,You asked for an opinion (even ran a poll).The vast majority of the respondents indicated that a welding inspector SHOULD have welding experience.Now you don't like the results you got and want to argue with the people who responded.  I may be wrong (suspect not) but from your attitude, I'd have trouble with you inspecting my welds.I'm a little older than most on here, but I've been supervising men (from a handful to over 6000 at one time) and I've never asked a man(person) to do something I couldn't do myself.  That's not to say I can run a grader as well as some of my men who've been doing it every day for 10 years, BUT I CAN RUN A GRADER.  Same thing with welding.  I may not be as good as some marine fabricators who've been welding anodized aluminum every day for the last 10 years, BUT I CAN WELD ANODIZED ALUMINUM.  Actually, being able to perform a procedure gives one a better appreciation for the results when that task is performed by one truly proficient at his job.This is why, for instance, there are steps required for becoming a Professional Engineer (PE).  You don't just go to school and take a test.  You take a test to become an Engineer In Training (EIT).  After a period of documented understudy with a PE, you are then qualified to sit for your PE exam (and not before).  A PE requires education and experience.  Why should a Welding Inspector be any different.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIISnappy,You asked for an opinion (even ran a poll).The vast majority of the respondents indicated that a welding inspector SHOULD have welding experience.Now you don't like the results you got and want to argue with the people who responded.  I may be wrong (suspect not) but from your attitude, I'd have trouble with you inspecting my welds.I'm a little older than most on here, but I've been supervising men (from a handful to over 6000 at one time) and I've never asked a man(person) to do something I couldn't do myself.  That's not to say I can run a grader as well as some of my men who've been doing it every day for 10 years, BUT I CAN RUN A GRADER.  Same thing with welding.  I may not be as good as some marine fabricators who've been welding anodized aluminum every day for the last 10 years, BUT I CAN WELD ANODIZED ALUMINUM.  Actually, being able to perform a procedure gives one a better appreciation for the results when that task is performed by one truly proficient at his job.This is why, for instance, there are steps required for becoming a Professional Engineer (PE).  You don't just go to school and take a test.  You take a test to become an Engineer In Training (EIT).  After a period of documented understudy with a PE, you are then qualified to sit for your PE exam (and not before).  A PE requires education and experience.  Why should a Welding Inspector be any different.
Reply:I didn't vote in your poll, but here is my two cents.  I don't have any experience with welding inspection, but I do have lots of experience with road construction inspectors, and engineers. I believe there are parallels. The best inspector is the one who fully understands how the job should be done, and what it takes to do it. There is always an adversarial relationship between someone doing the work, and someone who says if it passes or not.  Since the real world is full of shades of grey, often judgement calls are made on the part of inspectors. When the inspector knows what he is talking about, these calls are respected, and result in the work being performed to the proper level. I don't know why, but it seems that the least experienced inspectors often have the biggest power trips. I guess it comes from having power over someone whose skills eclipse their own, and the way to make themselves feel good is to bust the balls of the skilled craftsman. As long as they are right, it works, but often they try to enforce things that don't make sense, and then the problems start. I suppose if all the inspector has to do is measure a production weld,  then no experience is needed. I don't know, but I doubt the real world of welding inspection is like that.
Reply:My own life experience jives with what a lot of you guys here are saying.Personality and attitude is a very important ingredient in supervising and mentoring people, and especially with highly experienced and skilled technical people.  You absolutely must know and understand all practical aspects of the work, and some years of personal hard won experience on the job goes a long way towards that. People will have far more respect for you if you can actually demonstrate the required skills to a very high level, instead of just blindly enforcing rigid rules, shouting, and making a complete *** of yourself.In many fields, a successful career path means starting at the bottom, and rising as far as your own capabilities allow.  There are no real short cuts to gaining experience.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardSo you came here to bait and argue?
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIISnappy,You asked for an opinion (even ran a poll).The vast majority of the respondents indicated that a welding inspector SHOULD have welding experience.Now you don't like the results you got and want to argue with the people who responded.  I may be wrong (suspect not) but from your attitude, I'd have trouble with you inspecting my welds.I'm a little older than most on here, but I've been supervising men (from a handful to over 6000 at one time) and I've never asked a man(person) to do something I couldn't do myself.  That's not to say I can run a grader as well as some of my men who've been doing it every day for 10 years, BUT I CAN RUN A GRADER.  Same thing with welding.  I may not be as good as some marine fabricators who've been welding anodized aluminum every day for the last 10 years, BUT I CAN WELD ANODIZED ALUMINUM.  Actually, being able to perform a procedure gives one a better appreciation for the results when that task is performed by one truly proficient at his job.This is why, for instance, there are steps required for becoming a Professional Engineer (PE).  You don't just go to school and take a test.  You take a test to become an Engineer In Training (EIT).  After a period of documented understudy with a PE, you are then qualified to sit for your PE exam (and not before).  A PE requires education and experience.  Why should a Welding Inspector be any different.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauI agree whole heartedly with what you said above. The person doing the inspecting SHOULD have some hands on experience with the type of work they are inspecting, not just taking a class and test and start inspecting. If they find something wrong they should be able to explain what is wrong and why, and what to do to correct it or prevent it in the first place. Even be able to demonstrate proper technique to do it properly, not just say it doesn't pass grind it out and do it again. They need to have had time under the hood with a stinger or gun in their hand actually laying down a bead to understand the job from the workers perspective to better understand the job they are called on to do. The inspector should be able to do the job of the person whose work he is inspecting.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88I am arguing the same point that every other reply in this thread is addressing, I assume you singled out mine for a specific reason?  If so, get to it. If not, kindly find the door.I completely agree, though I don't know of any welding engineering programs that will allow graduation without completing any kind of hands-on course.  Even those OSU grads have welded once or twice Just as a disclaimer, I've done more than my fair share of manual welding,  I just don't see how it would make me a better inspector.  Pressure_Welder, it would seem like your gripe is the result of an inspector who is overstepping his bounds.  Technique isn't generally subject to inspection apart from progression, angles and weave width.
Reply:i dont know what training a welding inspector gets.i  worked  for a while as  a superintendent and had to inspect everything from trench shoring to paint..what i can say is after i started  learning to weld, i was much more comfortable with the weldors..where i had previously been in awe, i could now say   "nice weld man" or "better grind that out"  ...and it was a great feeling to know that if the weldor didnt agree, i could grind it out and fix it for him...
Reply:Definitely. Nothing worse than a handbook inspector with no idea of how things work in the real world. Same goes for engineers
Reply:This has been an interesting thread to read.I will be sitting for my engineering license exam this fall in Civil Engineering and will be completing welding certification program this winter.I work for an engineering firm that does of lot of inspection QA/QC work and we regularly get calls for welding inspections.While I will not be a CWI I will posses a PE license and a certified welding liscense.  I have never welded professionally, but I have been a "Hobby Welder" for almost 12-years.The type of welding inspections we get request for most often are not to certify welds.  The vast majority of the calls we receive are individuals or businesses that want to make sure the company/welders they have working are capable of doing the work.I am very confident that a person with my experiences(behind the hood, and education) make me and my firm more than competent to qualify individuals, not specific welds, based on the welders experience, certifications, and visual inspection of trial welds.Additionally, as I know someone will want to slam this post, as a licensed engineer/firm we only perform work to our level of competency.  Therefore if customer requests that we certify welds or welders for major structures where life or property may be at risk, and it is outside of our comfort level, we always have the option to pass the work on to an appropriate firm. And to answer the original post... Yes any inspector of any kind should have at least minimal experience in the field in which they want to inspect.  Weather that experience comes from "book smarts" or hands-on experience, the individual needs to be able to understand the aspects and talk competently about subject.
Reply:First, I am an engineer.  My day job is 'cubical jockey' (except I have an office and will quit if they ever install cubes).I deal with inspectors all the time.  An inspector is _independent_ validation that the job was done as pre-scribed.   The inspector is supposed to make sure all the equipment is up to snuff (calibration stickers up to date), the proper work environment (not safety, if the work is supposed to be done in a clean dry place etc.), and all the documents have the proper sign off.  Oh, and make sure the revision of the document is proper (remember the Hubble Space Telescope - mirror built to wrong rev. of the drawing).  That means when the bridge collapses, the P.E. is the one that gets in trouble.The same pride you have in making the weld, the engineer takes in designing the object.  "That's my bridge" etc.  The inspector is there to make sure its built to design.So when the drawing calls out for a 1" bead on 1/8" plate, the weldor doesn't say - "oh, this is obviously a mistake, I'll make a 1/8" bead and call it a day"  No, the drawing should get bounced back and everything straightened out and re-signed off by the appropriate people.The actual inspection of a weld itself is just icing on the cake.What you don't want is a complacent inspector.  He's suppose to be a machine - not a buddy or a sympathiser.  Oh, Bob has put in 60hrs this week, he's a good welder, I'm going to assume that he had enough amps, beveled deep enough etc.If you think inspectors screw up a project, all you need to do is change the standards (which the engineers can do with a couple strokes of the pen).For example:I was not a certified solderer (NASA has certs for everything) and was building a board for ground test equipment.  Well, I overheated the fiberglass (pins on a connector were too close together I should have skipped around) and there was some bubbling visible in the fiberglass.  Well the inspector bounced it for two reasons, a) not a certified solderer and b) damaged fiberglass all which violate space flight standards.  Well it wasn't supposed to be coded for spaceflight.  No big deal, changed the spec, got the signoff and the board worked as advertised.  Yeah it cost a couple of hours, but we learned what the heck those codes mean and we never did that again.Bottom line, the inspector doesn't need to know how to do the job (that's your job) all he needs to know what he has to inspect and when and probably whatever safety issues so he doesn't get hurt during inspection (and if he's not inspecting he shouldn't be there).  To get the safety part, he probably should have taken a suitable welding course.  No experience needed beyond that.The only time this gets messed up (from my experience) is either a) The inspector is lazy and doesn't know what he is actually supposed to inspect. or b) The burocracy gets in the way....  like the building inspector that walks off a site because the building permit was not immediately visible from the road - or similar bs.infractions.Last edited by con_fuse9; 03-09-2012 at 11:37 AM.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by CamAusDefinitely. Nothing worse than a handbook inspector with no idea of how things work in the real world. Same goes for engineers
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88See, that's the point that I think a lot of people are missing. As far as inspection goes, it doesn't matter how things work in the real world.  The (handbook) codebook is the only "real" thing.  Either the weld meets criteria, or it doesn't. Engineering takes a completely different approach, whereas they will have to design things to function in the real world, so a thorough understanding of how/why/where/who the product will be used by would be of utmost importance.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88See, that's the point that I think a lot of people are missing. As far as inspection goes, it doesn't matter how things work in the real world.  The (handbook) codebook is the only "real" thing.  Either the weld meets criteria, or it doesn't. Engineering takes a completely different approach, whereas they will have to design things to function in the real world, so a thorough understanding of how/why/where/who the product will be used by would be of utmost importance.