Which type of welding to start with?

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I want to jump in and start learning to do my own small welding jobs. Ever since I was a boy, my dad showed me how to learn to do things myself; carpentry, painting, wiring, auto repair, etc. I'm already looking at a metal chair that I could probably fix myself and save $200 on the cost of replacing the chair. Problem is I don't know if I should go with stick, MIG or whatever? I want to do general repair/build jobs in an old garage tat isn't used anymore. Right off hand, I can't think of myself welding anything more than 1/8" or 1/2" thick. I see a lot of ads for a company named Lincoln Electric but wonder if there are others a guy like me should look at?
Reply:Your first post. Welcome to the forum. I'm somewhat new here also.I started with stick, because that's what my dad had. I got a MIG later when an auto restoration needed it. In your case, it seems like maybe you should start with MIG, since your chair repair is probably thin(?) metal. Low cost,high quality MIG and stick machines are common and inexpensive on the pre-owned market. So why not have both ? If you get a stick, get one in AC/DC if you can. If all goes well, someday you may want to get a TIG. Enjoy!
Reply:The cornerstones in many shops may be nothing more than a 225AC/DC Lincoln, a Hobart Stickmate, or a Miller Thunderbolt. Between any one of those or comparable machines and an oxyacetylene torch set, you should be able to handle it. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I have been on this forum for some time and only weld as a hobby, so I'll leave the technical advice for the pros, I rarely post because I'm still learning, but I think I can help. I grew up like you with a father who could do everything and if he didn't know how to do something he'd buy a book and learn.  I read a lot on the net and this forum and if you want to start fast and easy, MIG is probably the way to go. When I was looking for a welder there were many imports that were very tempting for the price. I went with a Lincoln and 5 years later am so happy I did. I have never had a single problem, excellent manual, support is a call away and my local welding supply can help if I have a problem. Since I know little about how a welder functions it was and still is important to me not to have to deal with any issues while I learn. Since 99% of my welding is for restoring a 46 CJ2A and a 1963 Chevy, I went with a 110V to begin with, but since you want to weld 1/2" you'll need a 220V. My advice and I'm sure others will agree, is to go with a name brand whether red, blue or yellow. Read up on this site and you will learn which units are worth the money and which ones aren't. Trust me, your time spent learning with a welder that works from the first time you plug it in and every time you turn it on is worth every extra cent. This site has a ton of great information on it with very knowledgeable people, while sometimes the info is way over my head, this is a great tool for learning. Good luck!
Reply:Thermal arc makes multipurpose machines that would be the best of all worlds for you.  Miller is supposed to come out with something similar.  iIRC correctly, the 181 is around $800.  The 252 around $2000.  They are stick, mig and tig machines, but DC only.  I'm not a pro, but the 1/2" steel is the only tough part.  I think you can do it with the 181 if you bevel the welded joint and do multiple passes.  Best of all, TA has a pretty good resale value.  If you wait for the Miller to come out, you'll likely pay a bit more but have even better resale value.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:While there is no mention so far about the oxy/acet process, I find it to be the most versatile form in the welding processes.  You can heat,shape, cut,solder, braze and weld most metals.  It is a process that is most useful in a home shop or in industry.  A very good tool to have in your inventory.  Just my thoughts.  Best of luck in your pursuit.  Bob
Reply:If you choose to go with an electric arc welder ( mig or stick) you want to choose one that will run on 230v power not 110v. The small inexpensive 110v machines look like a great deal for the guy who wants to learn, but there are several pitfalls with this route. 1st many of the "cheap" ones are of poor quality and have erratic behaviors that make consistent performance almost impossible. The next big issue is even the best of these small machines top out at 1/8" under real world conditions. That's very limiting. That may be fine right away, but most newer guys quickly find they need to weld heavier and heavier stuff as soon as they realize what they can do with a welder. Your best bet is to simply buy the slightly bigger machine up front. It will save you in the long run. Most people have a 230v dryer or range and with an extension cord you don't HAVE to run a new line.If you choose to go with a stick machine, go used. There are a ton of very nice used stick machines on CL usually for a fraction of what the same exact machines will run new. I see units all the time for $50-150 that comparable machines at Lowes/Depot run $300-350. Take the extra cash and put it towards a good quality hood or some material and rods to practice with.Good luck..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I would recommend a MIG machine. You are able to do a variety of jobs with it wether big or small IF you go with a 220 volt model.The duty cycle on a 220Volt model also is greater. Most of those 110/120volt models only have a 20% duty cycle which means that you would be able to weld 2 minutes out of ten minutes at the pecified setting. As the others have said, do your research, invest in a good machine, and you will enjoy it!
Reply:Wow, great advice from every single person. This is going to be a good experience. I ended up doing IT work for a living, so after a day with computers it's great to come home and do something with my hands besides poke buttons. Thanks everyone!
Reply:Dont bother with a stick welder.  I've been welding for over 20 years and hate stick!  Yeah, i'm sure that it has it's advantages as it doesnt need a gas to weld with, but the ease of a mig welder will get you hooked.    Welding is all about comfort with your hands and control of the metal.  Go with a mig.  Lincoln Electric is a great machine.  I got four of them at my shop now and am phasing out my Millers
Reply:Oddly, I am in love with stick welding rather than mig.  There's just a lot less moving parts for me to keep track of and it's more versatile for someone like me - except in welding very thin material.  It's also slower process.  I like it because I can switch rods a lot quicker than a whole roll of wire and/or gas, no tension adjustments, bottle refills, liner to replace in the mig gun, and no balancing volts and wire feed.  On a stick machine, I have to do is select the amps, pick up a rod and off to the races.  Need more penetration?  Switch rods.  Smooth appearance? Switch rods.  Different metal?  Switch rods.  Just a lot less going on to make changes.  If 99% of farms and ranches in America have been maintained with an AC buzzbox, then it's more than enough for me.  Oh, and getting enough horse power to do 1/4" and above is a lot cheaper with stick than a comparable mig.  At least it seems that way to me.Btw, for welding aluminum with mig, it's a whole other bottle of gas, wire, and more expense for a spool gun.If I were to have ONLY one process, it might be OA.  The downside with OA is the storage, it's just a pair of hazardous materials, esp the oxygen.  If OA gets out of control, it's **** up.  A lot less trouble to get into with stick/mig/tig.  However, it's portable if that matters, you can cut with it, and with OA welding thin materials is "relatively" easy.  By thin, I mean down in the 20 ga and less and "easy" I mean with practice practice practice.I am providing this not to knock mig or tig, but it's just another perspective and to each his own. As a learning hobbyist so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I'm a bit like you in that I have an indoor desk job by day which I love and find very fulfilling but and "working in the garage" is refreshing.ps, best money I EVER spent other than a couple books was a class.  Or if you have a good pro welder who will teach you, that's probably even better.  Oh and a name brand means less chance of having stuff to deal with like somewhat poorer arc characteristics which experience guys can work around but you and I don't know WTF is going on  LOL
Reply:Rod,good, useful message IMO (as a total newbie).  Obviously there are pro and con issues to every possibility and messages like yours are helpful.Ken
Reply:oxyacetylene welding is the way to start, most versatile piece of equipment  not only for welding but cutting and heating.
Reply:Seems we've now entered a generation of squirt gun welders and plasma cutters.Personally, I think it's a major step backwards.  Guess it's the result of growing up in a society that demands "instant gratification".  When I read those posts, "I've never welded or took a class, but I just got a new tig and I want to build an aluminum intake manifold...", I just shake my head.If I had my way, everyone would start with O/A.  There's no more versatile system out there.  Weld, cut, braze, preheat, etc, etc.  No other process gives you as much capability.  No, it's not easy to learn, but the basics will stay with you.Next up in the "development curve" would be an AC/DC stick welder.  This will teach puddle control which will help you greatly down the road.The beauty part here is that both above options can be put together for minimal cash outlay, and if you find that you really don't have the interest, can be sold for nearly what you paid.I may be "old school" but show me a shop who's only "welding equipment" is a mig welder, and I'll show you a guy who's lacking in the basics.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Yeah I agree with sundown... O/A for first time,or 6010/11. I learned how to weld with O/A and once you understand the whole idea of the "puddle" all type's of welding become easier.Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIThe beauty part here is that both above options can be put together for minimal cash outlay, and if you find that you really don't have the interest, can be sold for nearly what you paid.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadoxyacetylene welding is the way to start, most versatile piece of equipment  not only for welding but cutting and heating.
Reply:Originally Posted by okiemanI want to jump in and start learning to do my own small welding jobs... I'm already looking at a metal chair that I could probably fix myself and save $200 on the cost of replacing the chair.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick V???  If you... want to jump in and start learning = then Oxy/Acet, Stick, Mig. TIG (long journey)If you... want to jump in and do my own small welding jobs = Mig (fix that chair & move on)IMO
Reply:If wire feed and Money was not a driving factor I would get the Miller Passport. Great machine. It is light on the duty cycle but I do not find that to be an issue at all (going on 6 years? Kevin would know) For thicker materials in steel nothing beats SMAW (stick) unless you need to do production, but for the home shop nothing will ever top it in our life times or my children's either.  Do all imports never live up to the hype. Even the single process imports are useless if they come from China.Miller Lincoln ESAB Thermal Arc,  stick with them and look for used.   I have some of all three. (oops I sold the ESAB last year)
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardIf wire feed and Money was not a driving factor I would get the Miller Passport. Great machine. It is light on the duty cycle but I do not find that to be an issue at all (going on 6 years? Kevin would know)
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick V???  If you... want to jump in and start learning = then Oxy/Acet, Stick, Mig. TIG (long journey)If you... want to jump in and do my own small welding jobs = Mig (fix that chair & move on)IMO
Reply:Originally Posted by k45Having just recently started down the path, I'm not sure what the real advantage of the Passport is over the 211. I considered both.  Yes. the Passport is a little lighter, but the 211 is $500 less and is more capable.   Both are 120/220 and portable, and can run self contained without a bottle.  If portable use with gas was really important, one could buy a very small C25 bottle.Ken
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat Bastard The 211 kicked off (duty cycle) the Passport did not.
Reply:hobart lx 235 ac/dcLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12ROriginally Posted by k45Interesting.  On 220v, the 211 has a 30% duty cycle (150A) vs the Passport has a 20% duty cycle at the same current.  However, on 110v, they reverse, the Passport has 20% duty cycle at 110amps, the 211 has a 20% duty cycle but only at 90 amps.Ken