Good home shop welder??

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I'm going to ask a question that's probably been asked a lot before.  I am looking to get into a MIG welder for my home workshop.  I have some welding experience, but it's been about 20 years since I welded seriously.  I'll use the welder for home repairs and maybe some auto body repairs.  I wired a 40A circuit at 240V that can be converted to 120V if need be so I'm covered there.I have been looking at the MillerMatic welders.  They are a bit pricey, but that isn't a deterant.  I'm wondering if they work as advertised and are worth it.  Also I'd like a recommendation on what others with more experience think the proper size would be for a home shop.  They have the 140, 180, and 211 plus others that are much more than I'd need.  They weld 3/16, 5/16, and 3/8 in a single pass.  3/8 is actually a lot of metal to be able to weld in a single pass.  Any opinions here?I'm also interested in aluminum.  All three of these units are capible of a spool gun for about $200.Hit me with opinions and advice, thats how we all learn.  If you have other brands you'd like to promote or discuss, please do, again that's how we all learn.ThanksTeaMan
Reply:Lincoln Pro Mig 180, or the Hobart 187 (hobart is actually owned by miller)...plenty of power for a general home shop repairs... and decent price tag... also keep an eye on c-list... they pop up all the time around here.Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Before DSW tells you, I have a Hobart 140 and 3/16 is more of a prayer than reality.  With some preheat, flux core wire and vertical up, you might get 3/16 in one pass but I would not build a gantry crane and let my dog stand under it.   I'm TOTALLY guessing but 3/16 with a mig on a 40 amp circuit may not be achievable except maybe an inverter based welder???.  I think that may be your true limiting factor if you want to weld that thickness.
Reply:A 40 amp 220/240v circuit is more than enough to run, at the very least, the 211 the OP was contemplating purchasing.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:wont get into brand names but i would try to figure out the largest i could get by with and then go one size bigger. 40 years in the repair business took me a long time to learn that. oh i can get by with that. next thing i knew dang for a few more dollars i could have done that job.
Reply:Originally Posted by RodJBefore DSW tells you, I have a Hobart 140 and 3/16 is more of a prayer than reality.
Reply:Hey, great feedback.  I'd like to ask DSW some more details and give a little more details myself.I have an old car, 1979 TransAm I'm going to start to restore some day.  It has a little cancer and needs some treatment.  I need to do a little sheet metal work with the welder.  I also have a future dream to build a trike.  The frame will be aluminum and I'll need to be able to weld aluminum.  That is where the aluminum will come in.  I don't need to do all welds in a single pass though.  I haven't calculated the size of aluminum yet since it's way far out yet so it isn't worth the structural calcs yet so I don't know the aluminum size yet.  I do suspect square tubing for simplicity.  Other than that, I do minor archery and firearm work.  I fabricate things that you can't buy or are special mostly for archery like arrow trimmers, string jigs, vises, tactical light mounts, etc.  I also have a 3 in 1 machine tool I'm starting to learn how to use.  Lots on my plate.  So I have lots of small things the welder may help with and small things with aluminum also with the fabricating side on archery.Now on welders.  DSW, thanks for the feedback and also jughead.  You are right, I always find I needed the next bigger one, rarely I find I didn't.  Anyway, DSW, I looked at the specs on the 211 and 212 again and the main difference is the duty cycle.  30% versus 60%.  I think you may be right that it isn't worth the extra money to go to the 212 to get the extra duty cycle.  Also Rated Output Rating is 160A Versus 150A which probably gains the duty cycle, and the only other main difference is the capacity of the wire wich would make it more for an industrial shop or more convenient.  I'm guessing in a home shop, I'd be stopping enough between welds for repositioning or moving to cool the welder.  I also liked the point you pointed out in the fact that the 211 was both 110 and 220 V capible.  I found this both unique and desirable in the ability to be able to take it elsewhere to weld, even to be able to use it elsewhere on my own property if need be makes it more useful.  My brother has a 220V only welder, don't remember the brand, but he has a very long extension chord he drags around his yard to take his welder to the project when he needs to which seems a little inconvenient.Anyway, seems like recommendations are definitely tending towards the 200 series welders...Last, any feedback on the Automatic feature of the MillerMatic welders.  They talk of setting to the metal thickness and all settings are automatic.  Does this actually work?Thanks again.TeaMan
Reply:Originally Posted by jugheadwont get into brand names but i would try to figure out the largest i could get by with and then go one size bigger. 40 years in the repair business took me a long time to learn that. oh i can get by with that. next thing i knew dang for a few more dollars i could have done that job.
Reply:I agree with both jughead and stick-man. The first mig I bought was a 250 20 years ago. I rearly used it at max but the few times I needed to I had the power. Buy the largest your power output will allow.Hypertherm Powermax45Miller auto 140 migMiller Econotig Watercooledwith wp24w TorchLincoln Power255XTNew(Lincoln V205 ac/dc)Miller Elite Helmet
Reply:For the archery equipment I think tig might be the better route simply because of the thickness of the materials used and the level of control needed. I'd need to see the actual projects to know for sure. It's been a long time since I did any fletching or trimmed arrows ( 20+ years) so I'm going by memory right now. Firearm work is another area I'd probably go tig over mig if I had to weld, again because of the precision control I have with tig over mig. Note that most stuff I'm aware of is usually silver soldered not welded on a firearm. Welding on firearm parts gets into a whole different area when talking about critical parts. Welding up a bipod or light mount is one thing, welding up a bolt or barrel extension, you'd better be very well versed in metallurgy and welding well beyond the hobby level.Too much heat will do bad things to high strength steels.I purchased my Syncrowave 200 AC/DC tig machine because I found my spoolgun for doing some small alum projects simply wasn't giving me the control over small alum welds I needed. Mig alum is a hot fast process. 1/16" alum is doable with mig but not easy. Add in complicated turns etc with a bulky spoolgun and what's already hard becomes even harder. I tig alum 1/8" and less or when I need the control such as when going around small round components like 3/8" rods. 1/8" flat material and thicker, especially long runs, is when I pull out the spoolgun for alum. Example welding up patches on a buddies alum dump body. Each process ( mig vs tig) has it's strong and weak points. You need to look at each project and see what process works best for the intended purpose.Understand that just throwing multipass welds on something will not necessarily allow you to weld thicker materials. The issue with small 110v machines is that they lack the input power to get a high enough output to bond well with the base material past a certain thickness. Just because you throw in more welds will not let you get decent welds on 1" plate with one of these machines. You need a certain minimum power level to get the weld to bond with the base layer. The thick material sucks away the heat and the bead just sits on top even if it looks "pretty" to the untrained eye. Usually you are looking at at least a 200 amp class machine to do decent multipass welds and a 250 class machine would be a better choice. That means you need to run on 230v power. I doubt with a 200 amp class mig you'd really have a need to do much multipass welding other than maybe on 3/8" or possibly 1/2" steel on rare occasions.Somewhat in relation to whats above, understand that on 110v the MM211 is limited under real world conditions to 1/8" steel and maybe 1/16" alum. You simply can not get enough output off a dedicated 20 amp 110v line to do much more. You get even less of a typical 15 amp 110v household outlet with other items plugged in. To do heavier material, you need more input and that means 230v power. I have a 50' 230v extension cord that allows me to move my 200 amp class mig out quite a ways in the driveway if need be to work on projects. A machine that only draws 26 amps or so on 230v doesn't need a mega extension cord. 12ga will do the job at 50', 10 ga would be better and allow you to run bigger machines in the future. A 10 or 12 ga extension cord would be the same gauge I'd use if I needed to run a 110v mig. The only real difference would be the plug ends. "Portability" is more about if you needed to say go weld up an exhaust pipe at a friends house, or if you wanted to take your car over to a friends place who had a lift so you could do some underbody sheet metal work. Stuff 1/8" and under. I used my small 110v mig at my parents place to replace a rotted out section of their front railing. I fabbed up the new section at my house with the big machine and just needed to tack it in place at their house after I cut out the bad section. All I really needed to do was hold it in place so it didn't fall off. They have all gas appliances, so my 230v extension cord and my big machine weren't an option there.  Lastly as far as the Autoset feature, to me it's pointless. For the hobby guy who doesn't know how to set a machine it probably will help a bit in the beginning. Note it only works with C25 gas and steel. It won't set up for alum, FC wire or if you choose to go with 100% CO2 as your gas. Then you still need to refer back to the basic chart on the inside door of the machine to get started. It also isn't always "perfect". It gets you close enough to weld, but a good welder can usually tweak the settings a bit for optimal performance. I've tried the Autoset at demo days at the LWS and personally would simply set the machine manually myself. But then I know how to tune a machine by eye and ear from experience and my personal style of welding usually calls for slightly different settings that the machine is set up for. I wouldn't choose that machine over a similar over simply based on the Autoset function. Hobart's new HH210MVP is similar to the Miller MM211 in output IIRC. Personally I'd opt for the Miller based on the fact the Millers are usually a bit more robust than their Hobart counterparts. If money was tight, Hobart makes very nice machines almost of equal quality to the Millers, but at a lower price point. I haven't had the chance to run the Hobart personally yet. Lincoln's multi voltage machine is underpowered compared to the Miller and Hobart being a 180 amp class mig rather than a 200 amp class unit. You'll loose a bit on the top end, and I don't remember it being significantly cheaper. To me that leave it a distant 3rd in the lineup..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:There is a lot of good info here. As far as the Millermatics, I just sold my little Millermatic 130XP due to needing something with a little more power. I am waiting on my ThermalArc 181i to get here. I owned the Miller 130 for about 5 years and run the crap out of it. I had to replace the whip and gun due to my error. It was set up for flux core when I bought it used and thats the way I ran it forever. Could drag it ouside on a windy day and weld right on. I changed over to gas wire because some of the things I am doing now the gas wire makes it so much cleaner and neat looking. Lot less crap to have to clean before painting. I have no idea how old the 130 was when I bought it but it never let me down. I have read very good reviews on the Thermal Arc 181i and it gives me the ability to run stick and TIG when needed. The cost through Cyberweld was $815 and $107 for the TIG set up. If you arent worried about TIG then $815 is in the ballpark of what the Millers and lincolns are in the 160-180 amp range.
Reply:Thanks, lots of very good information.  Again Thanks DSW, You are very correct with the intricate work on firearms.  I was thinking of more jig work, stands, and things.  I'd need to get much deeper and better at firearm work to get into that level of work, then you are right, silver solder and possibly tig would be the answer.  Tig sounds like it will need to be my next purchase.Now, bhhardy501, I've never heard of the thermalarc's Fabricator, but it does sound intriguing.  Definitely to have both TIG and MIG in the same machine.  It looks like it also has the spool capability too.  Reading on their web site it looks like they have a new model coming out that is a 211i that is 115 and 220V sometime this summer and a 210A machine.  I'd like to hear more about your experiences with the machine when you get it.  Seems like it may be something quite new to the market place.If anyone else knows anything about the ThermaArcs, my interest is definitely peaked...ThanksTeaMan
Reply:I havent read a bad review on the Thermal Arc machine. I will post a review when I get mine in. Should have it by the end of the week.
Reply:Originally Posted by TeaManThanks, lots of very good information.  Again Thanks DSW, You are very correct with the intricate work on firearms.  I was thinking of more jig work, stands, and things.  I'd need to get much deeper and better at firearm work to get into that level of work, then you are right, silver solder and possibly tig would be the answer.  Tig sounds like it will need to be my next purchase.Now, bhhardy501, I've never heard of the thermalarc's Fabricator, but it does sound intriguing.  Definitely to have both TIG and MIG in the same machine.  It looks like it also has the spool capability too.  Reading on their web site it looks like they have a new model coming out that is a 211i that is 115 and 220V sometime this summer and a 210A machine.  I'd like to hear more about your experiences with the machine when you get it.  Seems like it may be something quite new to the market place.If anyone else knows anything about the ThermaArcs, my interest is definitely peaked...ThanksTeaMan