Very new, never welded before an have a question

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Hi, I just need to do something very simple, at least I think it is simple.  Basically, I need to know what equipment I would need to weld low carbon or stainless steel rings together.  No rings larger than what you would typically see on a dog leash.  I have heard that stick, arc, butt and spot welding would work but to be honest, I have no idea what is needed.  I don't need anything expensive as this is something I would need to do around the home from time-to-time.Thanks much for your time in answering.
Reply:If thats all you will ever be welding look on craigslist there are a ton of cheap welders that have hardly been used. Personaly I wood go with a brand name ie. lincoln, miller, hobart. An AC only machine will be cheaper than AC/DC but so will the weldspe
Reply:Thanks much for the reply.  In your opinion, what type of welder should I focus on?
Reply:what are the rings used for? if you're planning on doing your own chainmail or something like that, than you're going to want a spot welder. Most chain is welded using compression and leads attached to either side of the link. Automated of course. The only think I can think of that you'd need to be able to weld rings that small for is chainmail. You could do it with a small mig or tig set up, but I wouldn't recomend stick, especially if you want it to look nice when you're done.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:"I need to know what equipment I would need to weld low carbon or stainless steel rings together. No rings larger than what you would typically see on a dog leash"For a job like this and assuming it's not a long production affair, a small propane torch and silver solder would easily do the job. The torch could cost from $15 to $50 or $60, depending on how fancy it was.  I haven't bought silver solder in a long time and anyway, its cost would depend on the alloy you got. For lots of small jobs I do, I usually just use some old 45% (silver) which contains Cadmium as a wetting agent. An appropriate flux would be needed too.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2[INDENT]  For lots of small jobs I do, I usually just use some old 45% (silver) which contains Cadmium as a wetting agent. An appropriate flux would be needed too.
Reply:WOW, thanks for all of the responses... the size of rings I would be working with at max would be something like 5/16" x 2" if this helps.
Reply:Is this for art work ??  any stress or weight load to consider ?? i think tig would be best. Especially if you want to keep it clean. With tig you might be able to just fuse together without adding any filler metal depending on joint. You could get a small Miller 150 maxstar , diversion 180, or a used 180Sd synco which would give stick welding too. How much money we got to work with ???  We all are good at helping people spend money! just ask us how many different machines we own .
Reply:Originally Posted by fraggle21975WOW, thanks for all of the responses... the size of rings I would be working with at max would be something like 5/16" x 2" if this helps.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Still need more info on what these Rings are for
Reply:Cheap little DC Tig welderEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by fraggle21975. . . She likes the look of chain and rings as straps or parts of straps. . .
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanOk, without commenting on what first comes to mind after reading that ...
Reply:Considering the small quantities and esthetic requirements, I vote for stainless steel rings and silver solder. Small oxy-acetylene rigs are common on Craigslist, and cheaper than even a disposable POS TIG.Choose a silver solder alloy appropriate for the fit-up that you'll have on these rings, and avoid Cadmium for your health and your customers.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedConsidering the small quantities and esthetic requirements, I vote for stainless steel rings and silver solder. Small oxy-acetylene rigs are common on Craigslist, and cheaper than even a disposable POS TIG.Choose a silver solder alloy appropriate for the fit-up that you'll have on these rings, and avoid Cadmium for your health and your customers.John
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2Cadmium and other heavy metals would be a concern if this were food processing equipment or teething rings, or if the PO were doing this work all day for weeks at a time. For his  occasional use and purpose, it won't be a hazard to him or anyone else either. If the dirt found in your yard were carefully analyzed, it would probably show traces of Lead, Cadmium, Zinc, Copper, Antimony, Tungsten, Titanium, and maybe even elements you've probably never heard of, like Scandium, Lanthanum and Erbium. Animals (and plants) have evolved in the presence of all these low-level 'natural' materials and no good studies have shown them to be harmful under such conditions. Some of them like Copper are even required in small amounts for enzymes, cofactors and other normal biochemicals. Safety is important but requires some understanding to implement properly.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcGoing off topic now, but cadmium found naturally in dirt is not a good comparison with an almost pure concentrated form as a corossion coating on a piece of metal.  It's apples and oranges...  On the other hand, I seriously doubt that the OP is going to find his chain rings with cadmium plating on them. Hardly anybody uses much cadmium anymore with the exception of Aerospace, military and some marine applications because of the world wide acceptance of the "RoHS" directive. (Google for further reading).  I deal with cadmium, zinc, nickel, tin, cobalt, chromium (Hex-VI) and cyanide on an almost daily occurance.    We have our own welding fabricators that must deal with toxic metals when fabricating.  There are certain proceedures fabricators (welders) take when working with metals plated with Cadmium and hex-chrome.  ...getting way off topic.... Sorry, I just wanted to explain a bit.
Reply:Originally Posted by fraggle21975So, the wify is a making hand woven purses and carrying bags, etc  She likes the look of chain and rings as straps or parts of straps.  So, I could buy rings and just close them around the chain and it would serve the purpose but I like the idea of welding them. So, the welds are not going to hold 1000s of lbs.
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03Clearly, you don't know women very well. Sorry, couldn't resist.Papa
Reply:So, I ran across this the other day on Craigslist... would this or something like this not work?one is a 115V the other 240V. Attached ImagesLast edited by fraggle21975; 02-27-2012 at 09:12 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by fraggle21975So, I ran across this the other day on Craigslist... would this or something like this not work?one is a 115V the other 240V.
Reply:Originally Posted by ANVILNo those wouldn't work.  Those are "pincer bug" replica molds.    Just kidding.  Seriously though, those are for tacking sheet metal and don't leave a "jewelry" like finish that you would need for your little rings.  I agree with what the majority here said and a TIG machine is what would give you the nicest and "purist" looking welds.
Reply:Also just something to think about.   You wont be able to sled these on the item due to the heat. So welding will need to be done prior to attatching to the purse.    Just something to think about
Reply:IF you're planning on taking up TIG, I would certainly consider 'BRAZING' these rings together instead of 'Welding them'.With No experience and using a TIG for connecting 2 rings only 5/16 in size is not going to go well (certainly at first) and will be 'frustrating' to say the least.  'Welding' the rings for some of these guys might be easy, but it's not something I would suggest you do at first as you're going to go through a LOT of rings during 'practice' with the 'HEAT' required for those nicely 'rounded' edges.I would seriously consider Brazing and as such 'Washing' brazing rod into the crevice will keep you from taking 'Bites' (undercuts) out of the rings and then having to fix them.  I would acquire some Silicon bearing Stainless Filler Rod, especially if you plan to do these and wish to keep color consistent.  On the flip-side, using a Silicon Bronze rod will give you a REALLY nice 'light Gold' color and would look GREAT against the silver and probably 'better' on 'some' of the of your Wife's purses (depending on weave, color, etc..)Cheers,EDIT:Whoops, just re-read your post regarding the rings...  My advice is more for attaching rings together, but even then, 'brazing them shut' will still work better (less heat).  The TIG would come in handy for that and for locking rings together , etc...Now having said that, If you DO NOT require joining rings side to side or end to end (like the number 8), then I wouldn't even consider the TIG and would merely buy a SMITH LITTLE TORCH and 'Silver Solder' them closed instead (as a couple people already posted)  I prefer Propane or Propylene, but the Torch will allow you to use ALL LPG gasses, including Acetylene and Hydrogen if needed (you just need to change the Tips) and the Kit 'already' comes with 7 TIPS.  The "Smith Little" is a very light-weight torch (fits in your palm), but you'd have no problems Closing or even Joining Rings together.  Make no mistake however, it's actually a pretty powerful little torch and you can even CAST Precious Metals with it or punch holes in Copper and Steel.Any Jewelry supply store would have the Torch and the necessary Solder (I'd probably use "Hard" solder, certainly not 'soft'...) and Flux.  For Oxy/Fuel, you could then just use the small 'plumbers bottles' or a barbecue propane tank and smallest Oxygen tank from your LWS and a couple of regulators and arrestors...  The other option is to buy a 'light-duty' Victor or Harris torch (with built in arrestors), but they are nowhere near as nimble as the 'Smith Little'.Cheers,Last edited by jman; 02-28-2012 at 06:15 PM.Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:sorry, been out of town for a few weeks.  So, I found these at harbor freight.  Any advise on which you all would prefer?  Again, I have never welded.  Thanks. Attached ImagesOriginally Posted by fraggle21975So, the wify is a making hand woven purses and carrying bags, etc  She likes the look of chain and rings as straps or parts of straps.  So, I could buy rings and just close them around the chain and it would serve the purpose but I like the idea of welding them.  So, the welds are not going to hold 1000s of lbs.  If you go to home depot or lowes and you find the welded steel rings, I want to be able to weld the rings on the bags/purses, etc like that.  Now, this is a hobby, not something we are doing every day, hundreds of times.  So, I don't need anything commercial or industrial.  Just something to weld the 2 ends of the rings together.
Reply:Harbor fright has band saw blade welders fairly cheap.  I use mine to but weld rings together for various pieces of art work. It will weld 1/8 round steel welding rod together really well. Mine cost aproximatly 200.00 dollars.  Mac
Reply:You mentioned tig is what you want.I totally agree. A good O/A torch setup is great. But what you have shown from harbor freight is way over kill for dog collar size chain links. The arc welder won't do squat for you unless you are trying to repair yard fences.I propose you look at the ThermalArc Fabricator 181i. It does mig, tig, and arc. You don't indicate the need to do alum, but a spoolgun is available.With a bottle and the optional foot pedal, you will be able to weld stainless steel chainlinks as small as 3/64" diameter, up to 3/8" diameter no problem. If needed you will be able to weld inconel, titanium, thin copper, brass, tool steel. If you get a bottle of helium, you will be able to weld alum in the DC mode up to 1/4" thick with 4043 filler.Switch over to mig, with fluxcore, and those steel fences, workbenches, toolcarts, and such are a cinch. Add gas and Esab easygrind wire and your autobody panels weld like no tomarrow.Me, I have no time for stick anymore, but the option is there. I have 5 machines at my disposal, and really tig and mig, and my little jewelers O/A takes care of it all.If tig would take care of all your worries, why not consider the miller maxstar. Make sure that you consider the one that can use the optional remote contactor/current control. Those are the finger or foot control. I have both but use the foot 99% the time, but on field jobs I use the finger control.I know it is a tough decision, but buy quality from an LWS that can guide you. If you get into a jam, on occasion you could ask the advise of a weld shop. BUT they will laugh you out of the shop if you show up with cheap import crap.Whatever, be prepared to spend a grand. If you buy quality, resell value is good.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYou mentioned tig is what you want.I totally agree. A good O/A torch setup is great. But what you have shown from harbor freight is way over kill for dog collar size chain links. The arc welder won't do squat for you unless you are trying to repair yard fences.I propose you look at the ThermalArc Fabricator 181i. It does mig, tig, and arc. You don't indicate the need to do alum, but a spoolgun is available.With a bottle and the optional foot pedal, you will be able to weld stainless steel chainlinks as small as 3/64" diameter, up to 3/8" diameter no problem. If needed you will be able to weld inconel, titanium, thin copper, brass, tool steel. If you get a bottle of helium, you will be able to weld alum in the DC mode up to 1/4" thick with 4043 filler.Switch over to mig, with fluxcore, and those steel fences, workbenches, toolcarts, and such are a cinch. Add gas and Esab easygrind wire and your autobody panels weld like no tomarrow.Me, I have no time for stick anymore, but the option is there. I have 5 machines at my disposal, and really tig and mig, and my little jewelers O/A takes care of it all.If tig would take care of all your worries, why not consider the miller maxstar. Make sure that you consider the one that can use the optional remote contactor/current control. Those are the finger or foot control. I have both but use the foot 99% the time, but on field jobs I use the finger control.I know it is a tough decision, but buy quality from an LWS that can guide you. If you get into a jam, on occasion you could ask the advise of a weld shop. BUT they will laugh you out of the shop if you show up with cheap import crap.Whatever, be prepared to spend a grand. If you buy quality, resell value is good.
Reply:After re-reading the post again, I now say any type of reasonably priced "gas welder" is what I'd get for you project. I remember my dad was into silversmithing when I was a young kid.  He would use silver solder and a small "jewlers" style torch tip (don't know what it's called, but it produces a very tiny flame).  My dad had both an air/acetylene set up, as well as a oxy/ace set up.  I'm not expert in the field of welding "jewelry" or similar small ring things as  the OP mentioned, but whenever I've gone to a jeweler for my wife's needs, the "experts" are not using MIG, TIG or stick.  I always see a gas torch of some type in the hands of a jeweler.Last edited by SuperArc; 03-25-2012 at 03:02 PM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Lots of responses, but not one really addressed the real issue.There is not a "welding process" that is accomplished properly without significant expense, traning and practice.Not to burst your bubble, but you could buy a wagon full of pocket book chains and dog leashes for what you'd spend on welding equipment.  Not only that but without training/practice the results are highly likely to be unsatisfactory.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIILots of responses, but not one really addressed the real issue.There is not a "welding process" that is accomplished properly without significant expense, traning and practice.Not to burst your bubble, but you could buy a wagon full of pocket book chains and dog leashes for what you'd spend on welding equipment.  Not only that but without training/practice the results are highly likely to be unsatisfactory.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIILots of responses, but not one really addressed the real issue.There is not a "welding process" that is accomplished properly without significant expense, traning and practice.Not to burst your bubble, but you could buy a wagon full of pocket book chains and dog leashes for what you'd spend on welding equipment.  Not only that but without training/practice the results are highly likely to be unsatisfactory.
Reply:fraggle,Now you're getting the idea.Crazy as it may sound, when you're talking about welding, often times the cost of the equipment is INVERSELY proportional to the thickness of the material.You could find a cheap buzzbox to stick together some 1/8-1/4" plate, but that cheap buzzbox is not going to do what you're talking about.I've got a fair amount of equipment and a lot of years "under the hood" and I'd buy pocket book chains and dog leashes long before I tried to fabricate them.Just trying to be REAL.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:So, one more question before I bow out in defeat If I were to try to weld 2.5mm or 3mm thick steel closed would I still be looking at the same equiptment/spend?
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIfraggle,Now you're getting the idea.Crazy as it may sound, when you're talking about welding, often times the cost of the equipment is INVERSELY proportional to the thickness of the material.You could find a cheap buzzbox to stick together some 1/8-1/4" plate, but that cheap buzzbox is not going to do what you're talking about.I've got a fair amount of equipment and a lot of years "under the hood" and I'd buy pocket book chains and dog leashes long before I tried to fabricate them.Just trying to be REAL.
Reply:Originally Posted by fraggle21975So, one more question before I bow out in defeat If I were to try to weld 2.5mm or 3mm thick steel closed would I still be looking at the same equiptment/spend?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeYou hit it dead on with your last two posts, I tell people all the time, I can sew myself a pair of pants, but its easier just to buy a pair.
Reply:A little tig set up like I mentioned would probably be good for you. A little fusion weld with no filler is probably all you need for a bag. Would take no time to learn to do that process and those nachines are very versitle as you get more advanced through time and practice.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Yeah, several considerations here...  welding will probably ruin the appearance of the rings, for one thing. If they're chrome plated, you'll have to re-plate them.  Look at it from a financial standpoint as well: you'll have to make X,XXX rings to pay for the welding equipment, to realize a cost savings over buying them.  Consider something like http://www.strapworks.com/O_Rings_p/ssor.htm .  I don't see what your point is here. I mean, you'll have to buy the rings ANYWAY, in order to weld them so.....-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211i
Reply:are you trying to make a part of the strap of chain or just have the one ring at the bottom for when the strap moves it will last longer. if you only looking for singular rings, I agree with the buy them and move on, if your looking to have it as a chain, the blade welder is a good idea if thats all you'll ever want to do,   I am a huge fan of the soldering idea, it wont usually ruin the ring when you mess up, and you can make things pretty with far less investment. not technically a form of welding, but its a good solution to this problem. if done well, might not need re-chroming (use an electric heat source so no carbon from flame) if you want to learn to tig, then learn to tig, and after you do incorporate it into this hobby, if you are only going to learn to tig to do this one small thing a few times a month, most people will never get good enough to be able to sit down and just do it doing it every few weeks without lots of practice at the front, which means every time will take a few tossed out rings while you get back in the swing. if you do go tig, I would make as many chains as you can at one time, so you loose less product getting back up to speed. (make a continuous chain and cut off rings as needed, etc) good luck in your adventure and keep us postedHobart Handler 190 Century 90amp on FluxCraftsman 200amp buzzbox
Reply:I figure it this way.If you take it to a professional, what process would they use?  Certainly a small tig. In the time of the minimum charge which in my case is a half hour, I think they could weld at least 50, maybe 100.The point being is the choice of process would be tig. Easy, fast, no cleanup.Only problem is money. Good luck on finding anything worthwhile for $200.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for all of the suggestions, input, etc.  I went the brazing route as mentioned by a few of the posters and the brass color does look good with the steel.  I was surprised how strong the bond is.  Looks like the steel would bend before the bond broke which, although is not a requirement, it is even better.  I have more practice to do in order for the finish to look nice, but was fairly easy to do (like soldering).  Will keep you all posted.