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on my 1987 miller 110 sidekick been wanting to replace my diode bridge but the only specific exact oem replacement miller part costs just under 200.00 its part 118903 i searched the online actions for miller rectifiers diodes found 2 miller oem diode bridges but i do not know what they are for they are around 40.00 they are in the package part no s are30706 kit 147947 and 30705 kit 147947 and it looks like they would match up.could not see the ratings but there called fast recovery kits which sounds good?.anyone know if there compatable?.i also found a simular miller part,Crydom brand.very cheap priced. it also has the same wire lugs 4 connections.it shows no ratings on the part.would any of these work it? they have the ac1 ac2 and the pos+ neg.- 4 connections.i know some things are not compatable.but if i could save 100.00 would be good.
Reply:Does this look like yours ? I think mine is the same year model as yours. Mine has a problem also. May I ask what your symptoms were ? My machine is not able to sustain an arc. spits and sputters. I can't help with your part numbers, sorry. Attached Images
Reply:yes yours is identical. and the same symptoms, read my thread reply in in your post.i might just bite the bullet give in and get the specific part for about 150.00 i bought the machine i think for 200 the tank 100.00 new regulator 40.00 now the fix added 150.00 i couldve near bought a new hobart handler,after all said and done, but it might be worth some xtra years use.instead of scrapping it.also,looks cool in the shop to all the lamens.
Reply:Two aspects with diodes. reverse breakdown voltage (basically how many volts would it take to basically blow through the diode - about the same as the fuse voltage rating - its all about isolating). Current capacity. Diodes are not perfect conductors and as current flow increases they get hot. Too much current and they melt.I'm not sure how the 'stock' diodes are wired, they are typically put right after the transformer. If you look at the schematics it will tell you roughly how many volts.So if you have 220V in and 50 volts out, the transformer is roughly 4:1 windings. So if you are drawing 50 Amps from the outlet at 230V and you are getting 50 Volts out of the transformer, you are also pulling 230Amps out of the transformer. On transformers, Vin x Currentin == Vout x Currentout. That will give your a rough idea.Now pad that a bit and go buy the cheaper one.However... I would suspect that unless the diodes have gone bad, you will have better luck replacing the capacitors. Diode bridges turn sine wave AC into lumpy (noisy) DC. Its the capacitors that smooth things out.I don't think you can have too much capacitence in the circuit. Capacitors are rated by Farads and Volts. Typically micro (u) Farrods or milliFarads. Some capacitors also have + or -. Wire them up the right way and all is good, wire them backwards and they breakdown, get hot and boil/explode. I suppose a bad diode could cause this. Most diodes don't short out though.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Carsngutars, how did you diagnose and come to the conclusion of what the problem is on your Sidekick ? As in how sure are you that you have the problem pinned ? So, the Rectifier converts AC to DC and sits on the aluminum plate in the pic, if that is correct, then this is a part that has a heat dissipation problem and is subject to thermal breakdown over time. There is a web site where a guy built his own MIG welder out of parts he got off ebay. I should try to find that site and post the link. Do a Google for "home made MIG welder".The reason I mention this is because he has pics of some diodes he got cheap off ebay and was making his own rectifier. It looked good. I think the diodes where some heavy duty military spec items or such.My machine has been at a Welder repair shop and he tried swapping the big capacitor I think, and it didn't help. So he thought maybe a short in the transformer that would only manifest when striking an arc. He said the transformer is no longer available from Miller. He seemed like a sharp guy, but maybe missed this one. So the welder is spitting and sputtering because it is trying to weld with AC rather than DC , is that right ? I hope we can get our machines working again because these old ones seem so much higher quality than the new stuff. I have a new Millermatic 140 autoset and it just seems flimsy compared to the old Sidekick.
Reply:I suppose you could use 4 of these to make your own rectifier.:http://www.ebay.com/itm/IXYS-Fast-Re...eb6ae3e13#shId
Reply:Originally Posted by BradTNCarsngutars, how did you diagnose and come to the conclusion of what the problem is on your Sidekick ? As in how sure are you that you have the problem pinned ? So, the Rectifier converts AC to DC and sits on the aluminum plate in the pic, if that is correct, then this is a part that has a heat dissipation problem and is subject to thermal breakdown over time. There is a web site where a guy built his own MIG welder out of parts he got off ebay. I should try to find that site and post the link. Do a Google for "home made MIG welder".The reason I mention this is because he has pics of some diodes he got cheap off ebay and was making his own rectifier. It looked good. I think the diodes where some heavy duty military spec items or such.My machine has been at a Welder repair shop and he tried swapping the big capacitor I think, and it didn't help. So he thought maybe a short in the transformer that would only manifest when striking an arc. He said the transformer is no longer available from Miller. He seemed like a sharp guy, but maybe missed this one. So the welder is spitting and sputtering because it is trying to weld with AC rather than DC , is that right ? I hope we can get our machines working again because these old ones seem so much higher quality than the new stuff. I have a new Millermatic 140 autoset and it just seems flimsy compared to the old Sidekick.
Reply:I think this is the subject. I took mine out to see what it looked like. How would I test this part ? AC1 , AC2 and + and - are clearly marked. If I were to make one of these out of the diodes bluewelder linked to, what would that schematic look like ?I wish I had studied electronics more in my youth. Attached Images
Reply:will post a pic of it opened.its clearly cooked.and i was pushing the welder that day past its duty rate. i should know better but i was caught up in getting my project done.i have a backup welder anyway.when yours gave up were you running long continuos beads?i would think that would cook one of these little frail? diode bridges.i noticed yours has the heat protective white goop between the diode bridge and the transformer mine did not.Last edited by carsnguitars; 02-17-2012 at 08:54 AM.
Reply:Look here for basic configuration:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...rectbr.html#c3
Reply:OK here's the description I found:BRIDGE RECTIFIER,1-PHASE FULL-WAVE,200V V(RRM),M:HL091HW031From another source it seems to be 100 Amp (and they said 240V).BTW, a rough estimate is that a diode drops .7V (probably more like .6V. That means at 100Amps, your diode bridge will be dissipating right around 60-70 Watts (think 60 Watt light bulb). So it will potentially get really hot if your are cranking the amps.http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/432...0100sb200.htmldigikey is pretty convenient. Expect pricing around $70.http://www.newark.com/They have a cheaper one, but if you look at the 'maximum forward voltage' you can see the more efficient ones are still around $80Last edited by con_fuse9; 02-17-2012 at 07:00 PM.Reason: fixed the URLs,,,, I thinkCon Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:80 bucks for more efficient sounds worth it.i check it out.by efficient, does it meen its a fast recover?yeah its a cyrdom brand ive seen some on ebay but confused about what my machine needs in amps and volts can the bridge be higher rates in amps volts and work if my welder is lower i have to find the schem on mine somehow?or just hookup one of these new ones and go?Last edited by carsnguitars; 02-18-2012 at 09:50 AM.
Reply:Higher volts and amp ratings on diodes are fineYou really need a bridge that is rated at least 3 times higher on voltage, than the maximum voltage it will see.The amps need to be higher also,the Newark one at 150 amps would be about the least I would go.I also think the heatsink they use, is not a good one for extended usage,it has no fins.
Reply:Diodes, by definition, are very high resistance one way, low resistance the other. The voltage rating basically describes the high resistance side. So a 1000V bridge will have high resistance until you exceed 1000V at which point it might just arc through.On the low resistance direction, resistance is low, but not zero.If you look at the detailed specs, they also list a forward voltage. Basically some say at 100 Amps, they drop 2.5 volts and some say they drop 1.5 volts.. Watts = V x I or volts times current. So 2.5V at 100 amps means the device is expected to drop 250Watts. The more efficient device only 150W ("only"!). That is basically how hot it gets 250 W heater vs. 150 W heater.Anyway, Crydom is the company that made the old one it seems. They have the part number as an obsolete part.EFG13A EF = seriesG = 125Amps (single phase)13 = single phase full bridgeA = supposed to be line voltage but they don't list it. (crydom only made a B, C, E, F and G version - notably skipping A and D.Its a high efficiency version. Maximum voltage drop 1.55V @125Amps.It will take surges to almost 2000Amps (for less than 1/120 of a second) and momentarily 3x the rated reverse voltage.It seems the 'A' model is a 200V version. B, and C are 120 and 240V versions. Maybe the 'A' wasn't as popular.Anyway, it is possible to find brokers of used electronics. Just search for EFG13A. There is a whole market out there of companies buying and selling old stock depending on their projected needs for the year etc. I saw companies listed with as little as 4 on hand.On the web pages I gave earlier. I think the only one that meets the spec is the SEMIKRON - SKB 30/12 A1 $123.74 ouch!The VBO VBO125-12NO7 is only $88, but their is a handling fee on top of it.A quick search on google shopper suggest that Newerk does have reasonable prices (best that came up). The problem with electronics is you can change one digit and have an acceptable part, but you may not find it on a google search. Newark, to their credit, has the ability to look for parts with ratings 'at least' 200V etc.You can also use a 3 phase rectifier. Just hook up only 2 of the input phases.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by carsnguitars...when yours gave up were you running long continuos beads?i would think that would cook one of these little frail? diode bridges.....
Reply:iv been eyeballing those cheap bridges also but leary of any mistakes because its not a direct simple replacement seems easy to get some thing backwards seen stuff go wrong like this before on vintage100w tube rectifier guitar amps very dangerous nicknamed" death cap"a capacator can.blow your finger tips off.,i would like for it to hook up like simply replacing a sensor or ignition coil dist module on a vehicle.like i said imight bite the bullet and spend about 125- 150.at welders4less. type inthe part number off that dio bridge mine was 108411.new part no 118903 this is an interesting learning but i want to put this puppy to rest ill show you guys a pic of the burnt insides of this bridge
Reply:heres the inside of the dio bridge the pencel points to what looks burnt blackened on the 2 neg- side diodes Attached ImagesLast edited by carsnguitars; 02-19-2012 at 12:04 PM.
Reply:would be good if you could solder in new diodes.???never seen these little square ones just seen the individual round ones
Reply:I ordered one of these off ebay. 150 amp, full wave rectifier bridge. From overseas, so it will be awhile getting here. I look forward to trying it out and will be quite happy if it works. I plan to post the result. Attached Images
Reply:hope this is it. your results could save these machines from the scrap piles what a waste.be carefull, i hope they mark every connection on your new part correct.unless you can trace every thing with a meter. pos neg ac1 ac2.ive witnessed some crazystuff like a co worker connecting one of these simular junctions in a ozone microwave generater production line. 220v he forgot to turn off the braker and kapow!blew him off his step stool.night shift at applied materials.during the hightech boom 1999
Reply:does anyone know what the amps volts rating on this oem gentron diobridge. it has no markings just ac1 ac2 dc1 dc2 and serial no
Reply:Originally Posted by carsnguitarsdoes anyone know what the amps volts rating on this oem gentron diobridge. it has no markings just ac1 ac2 dc1 dc2 and serial no
Reply:Originally Posted by carsnguitars...be carefull, i hope they mark every connection on your new part correct.unless you can trace every thing with a meter. pos neg ac1 ac2....:
Reply:let me know when you get it going, so i can get one.
Reply:Brad, I think you are on the rite track. Its hard to understand chinese but a diode is a diode on a schematic. As for your GENTRON, from what my two cents is werth, the nomenclature goes like this1 PHS DIO BRDGEFG13AIt seems like this is 1 phase diode bridge rectifier efg13AI can only assume 13A is 13amps. 13A times 220volts is approx 300watts. 300w at 50volts is 60 amps. I thought your machine was a 110 or 110 amp machine and that would mean close to 30 volts at 110 amps. I dont know your machine and am new to TIG and this forum but it looks like your Ebay bridge will work. Dont worry if the size is smaller as technology shrinks but be sure to use that white heat sink compound, correct torque and good connection, proper cooling and watch your duty cycle. As far as that Chinese scematic goes, and it looks like their bridge works on 3 phase. Just make sure the DC + and - are correct. Dont worry about the xtra sine wave connection and us the two sine waves that are most conveniant. If it blows, dont blame me.Heres a BR trouble shoot Attached ImagesBridge Rectifier Testing.pdf (102.1 KB, 128 views)"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251 Syncrowave 300 30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200 1 short hood SA250 SAM 400
Reply:I have an update on my Miller sidekick repair attempt. I got the Rectifier(150 amp) like the one I posted the data on earlier in this thread and installed it. The install was fairly easy. Drill and tap new threads on the heat sink,bolt down the unit and use plenty of thermal paste, attach the transformer to any 2 of the 3 input terminals(It's a 3 phase ectifier) and extend and criss cross the output terminals because the plus and minus were on opposite sides compared to the original. This replacement Rectifier is heavier and tougher looking. The quality seems very good for a $21 part. And the result...IT WORKS ! It seems to weld as good or better than ever. The arc seems very smooth and maybe a little hotter than before. I've owned this welder for 25 years and am very happy to see it working again( It quit in 2011) I know it's not much, just a little 110v MIG, but it's very good at what it is.I want to thank "carsnguitars" for the clues in this thread, and some of the other posts helped also. Thanks.Welding Web, what a great site ! Here's the little guy back on the factory cart and in working condition. Attached Images
Reply:yesss.good deal! show me a pic of the wire job if you can.it would help me. i am going to get one soon,what if i were too turn the bridge/move. to fit wire length.better?
Reply:Originally Posted by BradTNI think I had been doing some sustained welding on a Motorcycle frame at the time. One moment it was working nicely and then it started to spit and sputter like it only had about half power. I've pushed this rig hard in the past also. I welded about 200 patch panels and such(I actually counted them) on a rusty '64 Impala convertible back in the '80's. Worked it hard at times over the 25 years I've owned it.I was looking at some of the bridge units on ebay. 150 amp 3 phase from China is only about $21. Any reason why one of these wouldn't work ?http://www.ebay.com/itm/MDS150A-3-Ph...item1c1ee45ef6
Reply:Originally Posted by carsnguitars is this the bridge you ordered??if so just wanted to get the exact on you got.
Reply:i just ordered the part, arrives 2 weeks mabee, could you post the pic, it would help me my wires are confusing since i did not mark them after pulling off the part on the dc cap side theres a yellow and a black.i guess blk is neg?
Reply:25 yrs on that machine, is that the original paint?"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251 Syncrowave 300 30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200 1 short hood SA250 SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by carsnguitars is this the bridge you ordered??if so just wanted to get the exact on you got.
Reply:Originally Posted by carsnguitarsi got the part. but the do i leave off the middle screw and connect the ac wires from my welder on the two outer,is it specific? leave the middle because that would be for a 220 right? and my dc neg pos would obviosley be on the two given - + lugs.
Reply:Originally Posted by kolot25 yrs on that machine, is that the original paint?
Reply:Here are a couple of pic's. Attached Images
Reply:thanks. so you connected the ac in middle and side. i would like to connect the far rt lfeft ac connections and leave the middle connect off anyone know if it would work? plus my bridge is the same amp volt rating but has 2 different mounting holes .i wonder if we got it from the same batch or diff manufacter or dealer. mine was from" coolcheapworld" on ebay
Reply:Originally Posted by carsnguitarsthanks. so you connected the ac in middle and side. i would like to connect the far rt lfeft ac connections and leave the middle connect off anyone know if it would work? "plus my bridge is the same amp volt rating but has 2 different mounting holes .i wonder if we got it from the same batch or diff manufacter or dealer. mine was from" coolcheapworld" on ebay
Reply:Originally Posted by BradTNI used 10-24 machine screws to mount and connect on the output side.
Reply:ITS ALIVE!!!ijust tested a short run .goin to push it and see how it holds later.wow another sidekick saved. you to can save a sidekick for just 20.00. save the sidekick.heres my installation.i was able to stretch the wires to fit proper.had to nip the wire spades ends of alittle or they couldve touched the others.
Reply:herse my installation Attached Images
Reply:Good to know that you got your "sidekick" going also. Looks like you did a good job on the installation of the rectifier. I see what you were saying about your rectifier unit being different than mine. I hope your machine is welding as strong as mine is now.
Reply:new part,put it to work this weekend its a smooth operator lovin it, melts like butter.sizzles like bacon. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:54:57