E70S-2 and S-6

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I have been switching back and forth between the two fillers for a while.  I learned with S-6.  For me it still works best.Bead profile S-6S-2S-2 profileS-2 stop on the right, S-6 start left.I prefer the S-61/4" plate, Arcmaster on 150, 1/16" tungsten.  Red,,,, Yellow...White....  All the same when I dunk em.David  Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:S-6 Thanks for watching.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Looks real nice David.
Reply:Hm.. I hate to say it, and maybe I am wrong, but they all look a little cold to me, like they are on the verge of having cold lap- seems like it would be better to have the toes wetted in a little more than that regardless of filler rod...
Reply:I was going for a flat or slightly convex profile.  I really stuffed the filler in on both.It should be a 3/16" fillet for 1/4".  I didn't measure it.I just got a new bandsaw, I'll cut it and etch it.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hello David,Just cursing through the site as I am a new member:Curiosity led me to the Lincoln welding site as to the specs. concerning the filler material you mentioned with your thread.The two fillers you stated are described by Lincoln Electric as follows:Lincoln ER70S-2 Triple deoxidized wire containing zirconium, titanium, and aluminum in addition to silicon and manganese. Produces x-ray quality welds over most surface conditions. Recommended for TIG welding on all grades of mild steel. Lincoln ER70S-6 For TIG welding, Lincoln ER70S-6 has high levels of silicon and manganese to be used on slightly contaminated base materials. Higher levels of silicon and manganese allow for better puddle fluidity and excellent wetting action.I personally GTAW stainless steel 90 % of the time, so I may not be worthy of critiquing your mild steel welds pictured, but I can’t help comment on them, as you put them out there for all to see so.... The toes on most of the weld as I see in the pictures are not washed in. A condition of Slow and Cold. Also the puddle frequency is short, meaning you are working twice as hard to produce the same outcome.Ok well, just my observations. Welding like most other skills can always be improved on no matter how much experience you have.A wasted day is one that you haven’t learned anything new.
Reply:Regarding ER70S-2 & ER70S-6. There is more Carbon and Maganese in the -6. There is Titanium, Aluminum, and Zirconium in the -2. Tensile/Yield for the -2 is 76K/60K.... Tensile/Yield for the -6 is 90K/75K. If you don't have a specific procedure that calls for the use of one or another, I would use the -6. I also use -6 in my GMAW as it handles millscale better. In a nutshell..... -6 is better for not so perfectly cleaned steel.Regarding your welding parameters.... For that thick of metal, I would not be using 1/16 Tungsten @ 150 amps. I would be using 1/8 Tungsten, and start at 225 amps. I would probably be at 250 myself. I would use 1/8" filler rod. Don't try to make a Carbon Steel GTAW look like a weld done on Aluminum! BretRanger 250 * Invertec V205-T * Invertec V275-S * Precision Tig 225 * Power Mig 300 w/ Python Push/Pull Pro-Cut 25 Plasma * Millermatic 150 * Hobart Handler 175 * Bernard 3060 Tig Cooler Everlast LG-80E Plasma Cutter * Henrob 2000
Reply:Originally Posted by UA440FitterRegarding ER70S-2 & ER70S-6. There is more Carbon and Maganese in the -6. There is Titanium, Aluminum, and Zirconium in the -2. Tensile/Yield for the -2 is 76K/60K.... Tensile/Yield for the -6 is 90K/75K. If you don't have a specific procedure that calls for the use of one or another, I would use the -6. I also use -6 in my GMAW as it handles millscale better. In a nutshell..... -6 is better for not so perfectly cleaned steel.Regarding your welding parameters.... For that thick of metal, I would not be using 1/16 Tungsten @ 150 amps. I would be using 1/8 Tungsten, and start at 225 amps. I would probably be at 250 myself. I would use 1/8" filler rod. Don't try to make a Carbon Steel GTAW look like a weld done on Aluminum! Bret
Reply:UA440,The TA 185 Arcmaster tig David's using only goes to 185A.  At 150A I suspect he's getting close to his usable duty cycle.With his machine, I agree that he would probably be better served with a 3/32" red tungsten run slightly hotter.When he cuts and etches it, he'll know better about what he's got.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:1/16 tungsten would be too large for that thickness of metal.The 3/32 tungsten is used in the 40-150 amp range.This information is on the box that tungstens are packaged in.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by UA440FitterRegarding ER70S-2 & ER70S-6. There is more Carbon and Maganese in the -6. There is Titanium, Aluminum, and Zirconium in the -2. Tensile/Yield for the -2 is 76K/60K.... Tensile/Yield for the -6 is 90K/75K. If you don't have a specific procedure that calls for the use of one or another, I would use the -6. I also use -6 in my GMAW as it handles millscale better. In a nutshell..... -6 is better for not so perfectly cleaned steel.Regarding your welding parameters.... For that thick of metal, I would not be using 1/16 Tungsten @ 150 amps. I would be using 1/8 Tungsten, and start at 225 amps. I would probably be at 250 myself. I would use 1/8" filler rod. Don't try to make a Carbon Steel GTAW look like a weld done on Aluminum! Bret
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald Branscom1/16 tungsten would be too large for that thickness of metal.The 3/32 tungsten is used in the 40-150 amp range.This information is on the box that tungstens are packaged in.
Reply:And.... Just one other source....Bret Attached ImagesRanger 250 * Invertec V205-T * Invertec V275-S * Precision Tig 225 * Power Mig 300 w/ Python Push/Pull Pro-Cut 25 Plasma * Millermatic 150 * Hobart Handler 175 * Bernard 3060 Tig Cooler Everlast LG-80E Plasma Cutter * Henrob 2000
Reply:Ok folks, I see your points.  I will do a few more.  150 amps was maxing out the 1/16" tungsten.Forget the duty cycle of the TA-185, never seen the over temp light yet. I will turn it up to 185.  It puts out 199 MEASURED amps.    I did have it to the floor @ 150.  I have bigger equipment, but don't need it for this.I am going for a 3/6" fillet, not 1/4" with a proper bead profile.I don't want it to look like aluminum, and I do not prefer the dime look, I would like a smooth bead as if it was stick welded.Thanks for the help.   Etching solution is next to the door so I take it to work with me today.  Today, 3/32 tungsten, 3/32 filler and all the amps she's got.   ...     Homework.         I'll get the hang of this yet.DavidLast edited by David R; 10-24-2008 at 06:33 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald Branscom1/16 tungsten would be too large for that thickness of metal.The 3/32 tungsten is used in the 40-150 amp range.....
Reply:Yea.... I saw that. Miller must be having a sale on 3/16 filler rods! BretRanger 250 * Invertec V205-T * Invertec V275-S * Precision Tig 225 * Power Mig 300 w/ Python Push/Pull Pro-Cut 25 Plasma * Millermatic 150 * Hobart Handler 175 * Bernard 3060 Tig Cooler Everlast LG-80E Plasma Cutter * Henrob 2000
Reply:ER70S-2 properties per AWS A5.18 are70/58 ksi Tensile/Yield (minimums)22% elongation (minimum)Charpy v-notch no spec at 0F and 20(27) ft-lb (Joules) at -20F (minimum)ER70S-6 per A5.1870/58 ksi Tensile/Yield (minimums)22% elongation (minimum)Charpy v-notch no spec at 0F and 20(27) ft-lb (Joules) at -20F (minimum)S-2 has the 'triple de-oxidizers' in it, and S-6 has more silicon.  Other chemical percentages -may- overlap slightly between the two products per the AWS specs.  In practice it seems that S-2 is a little bit 'stiffer' in the puddle (hence the better out-of-position control possible) and the S-6 has a little more fluid puddle (from the slightly greater silicon content) and can tolerate/handle a slight amount of mill-scale/rust or other crud slightly better than the S-2.I think Miller was going for the hot-n-fast parameters there, eh?    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Here are the results.  It wasn't a good day for etching.  I finally ordered a sleeve o 320 grit sandpaper, this helped.  I was pretty surprised when I saw the bead inside the pipe.  Looks like the heat was right.  The pipe is just over 1/8" wall.  Welds were from another spearment on the bottom of the plate, one got etched anyhow.This was 3/32 tungsten and 3/32 S-6 filler with arcmaster turned all the way up.I cut a piece of 2.5" X 1/4" square tubing and used both 3/32 tungsten with 3/32 filler and 1/8" tungsten and 1/8" filler.  The 1/8" filler cooled the puddle too much, but I did end up width a decent looking weld (in my eyes  )I could tell no difference in electrode size. More pics later.  I had to do some work today too.  This is good for me....  DavidLast edited by David R; 10-24-2008 at 07:42 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:UA440: Lincoln Electric might give those numbers, but I've seen many other manufacturers and our own PQR's/tensile tests that say otherwise.  Those numbers seem very low.