Need stick criticism

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Ok, short of the 10 minutes of stick welding I did with Hammack at the welding confab this spring I have done zero stick welding since taking a welding class in engineering school back in 1992.  Ok, maybe I burned a combined half dozen of ni99 rods on cast iron throughout that time, but I've never spent any time on stick - specially since most of what I weld needs to be cosmetic as well as strong.  This fall it appears I am going to be the part time evening welding instructor at a local college, and guess what's on the list of processes to cover?  So, tonight I spent the last half hour of my day firing up the old Powcon dc inverter with a stinger attached.I still have about 10lbs of 1/8 6013 left over from when I took that class in '92.  It seemed to work just fine!  I also have a 5lb box of 3/32 6013 that seems very fussy starting but burns well once you get it going.  It also looks like it might have been damp - and I think it's even older than the 1/8" stuff!I started with the 1/8" 6013.  They seemed to like the middle range (60 - 200) and 30 on the dial to burn nice.  I guess that would equal 102 amps?  At that heat the slag was even peeling off on its own.  So, here are a few pics of that - DCEN, 102amps, 1/4" mild steel:Not great, but better than I expected!Next was a lap joint - laid a 1/4" plate over the other and welded all four sides:And now a T joint - inside corner... I know - it undercut!Around a 1.25" diameter tube - more undercut!
Reply:Oops!  Hit the photo limit...Then I switched to the 3/32" rod and did some thin .080" thick scrap brackets that were cad plated.  I forgot to look at the amperage - seems like it was lowest range and 65 on the dial..  There's a butt, lap, T, and outside 90 on this work of art...Finally, also with the 3/32" stick I went around a tube joint - went decent except for the stop/start:Ok, I must admit it went better than I expected!  I don't have particularly fond memories of stick welding in that class!  I seemed to battle inclusions / slag control a lot more back then.  I guess I've just gotten much better hand control over the years doing MIG and TIG and it simply helped...  I've got a ways to go before I will feel decent at it, but plan on spending a half hour or so every day just practicing.  Hey - it's cheap!  I just need to find more scraps to weld on since most of what I have is thin walled tube.So, here's your free license to dish out all the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism you can come up with...
Reply:looks damn good to me. what all do you have to cover in the stick class?  do you need to cover excaliber or fleet weld 5?i love 6013 but find myself running to the 7018 whenever i can.try to pause a little at the end before breaking the arc.Millermatic 211weldpack 3200 squirtgunsquare wave 200victory journeyman kitHypertherm 30xptoo much other crap to listtinkerer extraordinaire
Reply:On your off days, you do better than I can do on a good day"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:There not much criticism to dish on that stuff, the beads lay down great, your hand looks really steady, do you hold the stinger with both hands and brace up if possible?  I have fought problems with rod angle, consistent speed and even following a straight line and bracing up has helped me alot Seems like your ready to learn some folks some stick welding.
Reply:Now weld with E6011 and E7018. E6013 is too easy to weld with. It IS great for a beginner but it looks like you are past that point. you will benefit more by using the "harder to learn" electrodes like the 7018. the only way Ill use a 6013 is if i is very thin metal. Now try to make a good looking bead with 6011/6010. once you do that then you should have it made.
Reply:Fillets need MORE heat than any other kind of joint.  Crank it up and slow down. Moving too fast makes for undercutting, nothing to do with heat.  Try 130 + amps for the T joint.  The rest look good.  If the slag is "outrunning" you, more heat, or angle the rod to blow the slag behind you.  It should come right off like in the butt joint.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks guys.  It's just an intro class, so everything will be in easy positions with easy rods.  The pipe welding and out of position stuff will be done with the full time guy in the daytime.  I actually did a little vertical up when Hammack was here, and was pretty successful with that as well - but we probably won't get that far in the intro class. I will see what we have in the weld shop at school as far as electrodes go.  The 6013 is all I had here at my shop, so that's what I'm playing with right now.  The travel speed is the one thing I do have trouble judging - I'm not used to having slag in the way of seeing exactly what I'm laying down!  But, I am pleased that it was so much better than when I took the class years ago...Oh, and most of that was done with one hand.  I'd use the other hand against the side of the stick at the beginning of a new stick to get it started, then pull it away and run one handed...
Reply:With no more practice than you have had I would say it is one of two things - Hammack is a good teacher, or you are a natural. If you haven't already taught at the school then you will probably find out you are in for something you will enjoy. I taught motor control and instrumentation at our local technical college ( at night ) and my wife taught Sociology. Now it is my daughter's turn and she is also teaching Sociology. My father was one of the first electronics instructors they had when the school first opened. I remember something he told me when he first started teaching. A group of professionals from California visited the school ; they had a system that had been in place for years. They told them not to make the mistake they made - don't try to have a technical school and community college combined. They said the technical side will suffer. Well, guess what happened. If you visit our school it is apparent which side won out. But I guess they did what they had  to do to get funding. And it has a lot to do with the students  also. I inquired about a welding course at the school not long ago. They called me and told me to sign up. I paid my money and waited. I noticed an ad in the local paper listing the course as being scheduled. The day before the class was to start I got a call to come to the school for a refund. I found out later that the electrical instructor that was also in the planning of classes saw where I had signed up. He was also a friend of mine.  He had them run the add in the paper hoping there would be enough sign up so that they could have the class. There were only two other people that signed up for it, and they both dropped before class was to start. I later found out they had only been having the welding at night because the only ones who would sign up were men who were already working and wanted to improve their skills, or working guys that wanted to start a new career.The school has been a great service to the community and trained a lot of Veterans after Vietnam so they could get good jobs. But most of the manufacturing has closed its doors aroiund here, so I guess the technical side isn't as important as it once was, at least not around here anyway.Good luck on your teaching. If it wasn't so far away - I would sign up for your class.
Reply:6010 - thanks for the compliment!  I am claiming that it falls back on the various types of welding being more connected than most realize!  I think that the fact that I've been doing a lot of tig and mig since I took that class simply led to a more steady hand...I know exactly what you mean about college versus technical school.  This one is trying to lean more toward college, but all it really has is tech programs...  Kind of strange.  I currently teach motorsports fabrication there, the welding thing recently opened up and I thought I'd try it.  I'm not worried at all about either mig or tig which will be the focus, but am nowhere near where I need to be to consider myself ready to show others how to stick...  The one formal class I took on welding was at Southern Tech (now Southern Polytechnic State University) in the Mechanical Engineering department under the quarter system.  All ME's had to take one quarter of welding and 2 more of machine shop.  The welding class was pretty in depth in both the thoery and processes, we covered oxy-acetylene, stick, mig, and tig in there and had to submit samples in all processes.  The theory was at an engineer's level.  The instructor was an adjunct that was pretty good, but tough.  Every time I'd submit a sample he'd look it over, say that looks great - and give me a B.  After a few times of this happening I asked him to show me an A, and he said he couldn't, that a B was about his level...  Figure that one out....  Ended up with a B in the class since that's what I got on every sample.  But, that was a good grade in there!
Reply:The theory was at an engineer's level
Reply:Try to mess with the heat until you can see clear molten puddle with the slag about a rods width away.  It seems to work best for me.  If  you have it, try "crisp" or  higher arc force.The last pic using the 3/32 is nice!DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:David - on the Powcon I'm using there is no inductance control, so I can't play with that.  If I switch my leads over to the XMT 300 I could, though.  Humm....I've been playing some more, mostly just practicing in the flat postions.  Here were a couple more shots from yesterday's playing:Just beads of various widths:Then I did a bunch of passes to fill in this T joint followed by an attempt at capping it off.  With MIG I wouldn't think of capping - but thought I'd try this for fun:It was a figure 8 pattern - I figured I'd have a ton of inclusions but didn't...I wish I had more heavy stuff at my shop - all my scrap's too thin for stick but I'm having a blast doing it!
Reply:Looking good, but I expect nothing less.  Go invest in 10 lbs of 7018.  You will be pleased.  No spatter, better looking welds and I find easier to control especially out of position.For the last 2 weeks, all I have run is stick. (100 lbs) Its nice.  The work is hourly.......   Chipping slag seems so archaic.I will try to post some 6013 welds on Friday.Did you turn the heat up for those figure 8s?DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:good work the only thing i see is craters where you break the arc try reversing direction and travel angles, weld back about 3/4" and raise the rod slightly as you do it so you don't stub out. this will deal with craters flat and overhead and horizontal. vertical uphill is a little different cause it's hard to weld back down with a 7018 (it can be done but the puddle is too fluid) in that case go from a push angle to 90 degree and hold the rod over it a while before you break then break with a twist motion.
Reply:congrats on the willingness to pick up the welding class! my school is a trade college and in our welding school we teach it all; theories, welding, cutting, printreading, math for welding, the whole 9 yards. your 6013 passes look pretty good, that's a nice easy running rod. we mainly use 6010/6011/7018 here with 6013 for just the first few weeks getting them started. make sure you get some practice in on your groove welds! how's your class enrollment there? we've been full with a waiting list for evening classes here for the past 1 1/2 yrs.johnjohnwelding instructorwww.williamrmoore.orgMooreTech College of Technologywelder/fabricatorJGWilson, Inc.www.jgwilson.com
Reply:If I had to guess, I'd bet your arc length was just a tad long.
Reply:I haven't been on here in quite a while - I hadn't seen the new posts!  You could say I have my plate completely full right now.  I'm Teaching Motorsports Fabrication from 10:00 am - 4:00 pm this quarter and the 3 simultaneous night welding classes (intro tig, adv tig, and mig) from 5:30 - 10:30 on tuesdays and thursdays.  No stick classes yet, but I keep working on it when there's time at school.  Right now there are 12 guys in my combined evening class with a pretty even speed through the classes.  Any more and we'd have some machine availability issues!  I hate to say it, but this is not a thriving program right now - and it is entirely due to the way it's run.