Welding trailer build.

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OK guys, I started my trailer build today. The main body of the trailer will be 5'X12' and the fenders and steps will add a bit more width.Today I built the frame out of 2X4 14 gauge tube and added a cross brace of 2X4 14 gauge every 2'. I 45'd the corners on the main frame. Got it all welded up. Took pictures but will have to add them later.The tongue on my utility trailer is a little over 3' from the front of the trailer and it works OK so I will do the same for this trailer. I will be using 2X4 14 gauge for the tongue pieces and want to go all the way to the sides of the trailer and bend them to ride under the frame for a few feet. Then taper up to meet the main frame and capped off. I also plan to cap the front of the tongue pieces under the hitch.Anyone see any reason not to do this?For the floor I plan on using 1/8" sheet. It just went up in cost and I was told it was going up again so I need to go get it now. I do not plan to carry much other than my welding gear so 1/8" should be good. Anyone see a problem with 1/8" plate for the floor? I really don't want to go heavier.Now, when I built the trailer frame I welded all the way around the cross pieces. I plan on grinding the TOP weld flush to allow the floor to sit flat without having bumped up welds under it.Not sure how to put side rails on. Should they go on top of the floor or on top of the frame and the floor cut to fit inside?Thanks for any input.Also, thinking about what to put on the trailer I looked at all the rig pictures I could find. I noticed something that I had not noticed before. Several welding rigs had BBQ's on them. Is this practical? Do they get used as BBQ's or hand warmers (or both)?Anyone have one and do you use it?
Reply:What do you need side rails for?  If you do use them, put them outside the frame.5'2"  Is a lot better width.  Someday you might want to lay something in that is exactly 5' and it ain't gonna fit.1/8" on the floor is plenty.  I would connect your cross bracing with short pieces of smaller tube.I do my tongues out of 2x3 the way you described.  If you want a cut length and angle list, let me know I might already have it drawn up in CAD.  If not, it would only take a minute to do.
Reply:Boostinjdm,I would love the cut list. I am sure other here would like it also. Can you post it here? If not send it to me at bob AT warnerknives DOT comThanks a bunch.
Reply:got to get get supper, I'll see what I can come up with when I come back.  What's your exact trailer width?  50 degree coupler?  2" inch wide tubing?
Reply:5' to outside of frame. 2" tube, 50 degree coupler.
Reply:ok, I'm back.  This is what I worked up specifically for you.  I believe all the needed info is there.    I am not responsible for my own fook ups on this.  You get what you pay for most of the time so measure and mark it all out to double check before you cut anything.  I have used this process about 7 times now with it coming out perfect each time.  The 65 degree cut usually has to be marked out and cut with a cut off wheel or plasma. Attached ImagesLast edited by Boostinjdm; 08-15-2009 at 01:11 AM.
Reply:Outstanding.I will be doing this tomorrow unless something else comes up.I will be cutting everything with a plasma so the angles won't mess me up, just got to get them drawn right on the material.I really appreciate you doing this for me. Will make things a bit faster during the cutting.Bob
Reply:If you want any more measurements to double check, like the inside lengths of the long tubes let me know.  I saved the drawing so I can reference it later.
Reply:And the saw settings are figured for a saw where "0" is actually a 90 degree cut as most saws are this way from what I have seen.
Reply:Originally Posted by Boostinjdmok, I'm back.  This is what I worked up specifically for you.  I believe all the needed info is there.    I am not responsible for my own fook ups on this.  You get what you pay for most of the time so measure and mark it all out to double check before you cut anything.  I have used this process about 7 times now with it coming out perfect each time.  The 65 degree cut usually has to be marked out and cut with a cut off wheel or plasma.
Reply:I am using a 50* bulldog hitch.Dabar,Looking at the drawing I saw the measurement on the right shorter than the measurement on the left and made the assumption that I was to cut off the point after welding the two pieces together.I will have to cut a bit shorter than the drawing due to the bulldog hitch design but can figure that out myself.Do you think I am reading the drawing incorrectly?
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerI am using a 50* bulldog hitch.Dabar,Looking at the drawing I saw the measurement on the right shorter than the measurement on the left and made the assumption that I was to cut off the point after welding the two pieces together.I will have to cut a bit shorter than the drawing due to the bulldog hitch design but can figure that out myself.Do you think I am reading the drawing incorrectly?
Reply:By the way, for proper tongue weight the coupler (center of ball socket) should be at or about 42" from the front edge of the trailer deck if the axle(s) are placed in the correct 60/40 ratio.I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:That is why I said I would have to cut the point farther back. I can see why you would not bother with the joint.  My bulldog is a bit different because it curves around towards the front of where the tubes mount and will not let me go all the way in as described in the drawings. I would end up with what you have drawn. I knew I would have to do that as soon as I saw the drawing but appreciated his effort just the same.I planed to clamp the tubes into the hitch and let the hitch dictate everything. I planned on moving it until I had 3' of tube in front of the trailer frame which with the addition of the hitch would be very close to your 42" mark.I will still cut the tubes and bend them (re-weld them) to follow under the frame as stated earlier.I planned to cap the ends to keep moisture out. It is part of my goofy mentality of closing everything up. I planned on drilling holes for the wires prior to closing off ends for the wire runs. Then just blow the wires through.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerThat is why I said I would have to cut the point farther back. I can see why you would not bother with the joint.  My bulldog is a bit different because it curves around towards the front of where the tubes mount and will not let me go all the way in as described in the drawings. I would end up with what you have drawn. I knew I would have to do that as soon as I saw the drawing but appreciated his effort just the same.I planed to clamp the tubes into the hitch and let the hitch dictate everything. I planned on moving it until I had 3' of tube in front of the trailer frame which with the addition of the hitch would be very close to your 42" mark.I will still cut the tubes and bend them (re-weld them) to follow under the frame as stated earlier.I planned to cap the ends to keep moisture out. It is part of my goofy mentality of closing everything up. I planned on drilling holes for the wires prior to closing off ends for the wire runs. Then just blow the wires through.
Reply:OK, makes sense I will leave them open.Maybe I should drill weep holes in the cross members and the frame tubes. Do you agree?
Reply:Dude, just ask the questions and I will give you the answers.  Yes you need to cut the tip off.  Yes you might have to cut it back farther depending on the thickness of the cap you use.  Capping the tubes will not keep the moisture out.  It will however keep out the mud, snow, road salt, rocks and other debris that can cause wiring and rust problems.  If you want pics of my tongue, I can go take some.  I've got a trailer in progress right now.
Reply:this is what the tongue on my current project looks like. Attached ImagesLast edited by Boostinjdm; 08-15-2009 at 05:07 PM.
Reply:Just one question about the rails and coupler, did you allow enough room for the stick out on the trailer hitch receiver? Looks like it's gonna be mighty close if not hitting when turning or going over uneven ground.As for the rest of your build, that's just insane, talk about wasting time and materials. That's way beyond over kill, unless I'm missing something here.How much is the trailer rated for and how much does it weigh as it sits?Is it an optical illusion or do you have the axle placed in the center of the trailer deck?What is the purpose of the extra rails above your tongue rails, and the ones going up the middle of the trailer, seems like an awful lot of time and materials that could have and should have been used on other projects.Please explain some of the reasons why you built it this way or tell us what and how  the trailer is going to be used.I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:boost, i don't know where to begin.  what are you planning to do with that trailer?  why all the bracing and what type of floor are you going to use?  what is your axle rated for and how much will your empty weight be?  why is your axle so far forward?i haven't ever seen a trailer like yours and can't imagine what it would be used for.
Reply:Unless you know the purpose, you can't really comment on whether it's overbuilt or not.   Yes, this does look overbuilt.   But perhaps there's a reason????   Custom trailer, is exactly that, a custom trailer.  Built for a purpose.   To me, this looks like a tilt-bed, perhaps the man has a particularly small, heavy piece of equipment he'd like to load onto it??????   Long runners in back, lots of crossmembers in front.   Looks perfect, for carrying a heavy, concentrated load......As far as the short overhang on the coupler, yeah, true if you were hooking up to a ball, bolted on a bumper.   But the vast majority of people, today, use receiver hitches, a little 2" piece of flatbar sticking out, with a ball bolted on the end.  This thing has plenty of room, to swivel around, even to the point of the A-frame hitting the bumper.   How much more clearance do you need?????Last edited by mark8310; 08-15-2009 at 06:57 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Boostinjdmthis is what the tongue on my current project looks like.
Reply:Boostinjdm, looks like the boxed in part, in front, is for a hydraulic cylinder???Looks like a good job.  Strong and stiff, like a tilt-bed should be.   Don't worry about the "criticizers", they know not of what they speak.
Reply:Yeah, 7A749, I agree.   What really bugs me, is all these supposed "experts", can instantly look at a picture and criticize it.   I mean, a tilt-bed.   Normally the axle will be slightly ahead of center.   How's it gonna tilt, otherwise? Without adding huge weights to the back.   Normally, people who use and load tilt-beds, know how to move the equipment back and forth, for proper distribution.   And capping tubes???   Guy from Florida said don't do it, probably never even seen a road salt in his life.   Maybe the builder lives in Minnesota or N. Dakota???   Or maybe someplace with snowy, icy mountains, that are regularly salted????   Do they even have a mountain in Florida???????
Reply:It looks like a tilt-bed trailer, hydraulic cylinder goes into the boxed-in part, to hold the bed up and to slow down the rate of descent.   Stiff, because when the bed is up in the air, nothing else to keep it from flexing.   "Flexy" tilt beds are always breaking.  I also suspect Boostinjdm is smart enough, to know how to balance loads, by weight.  Custom trailer, custom purpose, looks great, Boostin .....Looks like a dump trailer to me.I am not sure how every time I start a thread I end up with strong opposing feelings on things. Hope everyone can get along.I am still unsure what to do about boxing in the tubes. I live in Texas, we do not get lots of snow or road salt. I can understand the trapped moisture inside being an issue. I think I will drill a small weep hole (or two, one on each end) in each section that is sealed off, just in case.I just came in from working on the trailer. I have the frame with 5 cross braces built, the axle is on and the tongue is tacked in place to be welded permanent tomorrow. I will get it flipped over around noon tomorrow when my son comes over to help.
Reply:Boostin, I see some pins in the back end. Tilt bed like Mark8310 says?
Reply:I am still unsure what to do about boxing in the tubes. I live in Texas, we do not get lots of snow or road salt. I can understand the trapped moisture inside being an issue. I think I will drill a small weep hole (or two, one on each end) in each section that is sealed off, just in case.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerLooks like a dump trailer to me.I am not sure how every time I start a thread I end up with strong opposing feelings on things. Hope everyone can get along.I am still unsure what to do about boxing in the tubes. I live in Texas, we do not get lots of snow or road salt. I can understand the trapped moisture inside being an issue. I think I will drill a small weep hole (or two, one on each end) in each section that is sealed off, just in case.I just came in from working on the trailer. I have the frame with 5 cross braces built, the axle is on and the tongue is tacked in place to be welded permanent tomorrow. I will get it flipped over around noon tomorrow when my son comes over to help.
Reply:geezer,I have been taking pictures. I just have to get them off the camera and reduce them in size to post them here and am just worn out when I come in. Tomorrow I will weld the tongue on and take photos of it when done and will post the progress up to that point. I don't have a jack yet but other than that I will have a rolling trailer tomorrow.Pics to follow, I promise.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerLooks like a dump trailer to me.
Reply:It looks like he has a torsion axle under there, they can be set up at many different angles. That section in the middle looks large enough for a big hydraulic cylinder alright. Bob, it is your choice. But I always notice that running wires through sealed areas to be the biggest pain in the neck! Builders don't always create the best environment to conduct maintenance...Here is one I did admire however!Edit:-Boostin, you flew right under my radar!!  That is nice! Attached ImagesLast edited by tanglediver; 08-16-2009 at 12:46 AM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Bob,I ran my wire in the rect tube and have had no problem. Attached Images
Reply:Bpb,I did the same type of connection on the 14ft enclosed I built.  Obviously, the access to the rect tube is via a hole behind connecting box.  I plan to do the same on the 6x10 I am starting tomorrowBTW, did not seem to sound pushy asking for pics, just curious to see others approachI plan to post 6x10 build in progress to get feedback.  I built the red trailer on the saw horses I posted for your review.  Will do the same on the 6x10 thanks, Geezer Attached Images
Reply:A dump trailer. I figured something out, I feel smart now.OK, I have decided to drill weep holes in all the tubes. They will be small but enough to allow moisture to drain out and let some air through.Second guessing the wiring through the tubes. Trailers wiring seems to always be a pain and I want to be able to fix it easily. I will have to think about it.I need to find a set of tail lights that have independent lights for each function. Not sure how easy that is going to be.Need to pick up a jack. Have to find one with an adjustable foot so I don't have to always have a block of wood.Geezer, I did not feel you were pushy. I will get photos up this afternoon/evening.Bob
Reply:All my wiring runs through the frame.  If you use good wire, lights, and make good connections, you will never need to service the wiring.  I normally spend $200+ on lights and wiring and spend the better part of a day fishing wires and making connections.  After that, they're maintenace free.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerA dump trailer. I figured something out, I feel smart now.OK, I have decided to drill weep holes in all the tubes. They will be small but enough to allow moisture to drain out and let some air through.Second guessing the wiring through the tubes. Trailers wiring seems to always be a pain and I want to be able to fix it easily. I will have to think about it.I need to find a set of tail lights that have independent lights for each function. Not sure how easy that is going to be.Need to pick up a jack. Have to find one with an adjustable foot so I don't have to always have a block of wood.Geezer, I did not feel you were pushy. I will get photos up this afternoon/evening.Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmAll my wiring runs through the frame.  If you use good wire, lights, and make good connections, you will never need to service the wiring.  I normally spend $200+ on lights and wiring and spend the better part of a day fishing wires and making connections.  After that, they're maintenace free.
Reply:OK, I am waiting on my son and finished welding the tongue welds that are on the bottom of the tongue so until he gets here to help flip it over, I am at a standstill. So here are the pictures so far.The first image is not related to the trailer but what I had to finish to get it out of my shop so I could start the trailer. It is a popcorn popper for making Kettle Corn. It has a large kettle that pops the corn and then you lift the handle to dump the corn into a tub on the lower level. The wheels are just for moving, they can be removed.The second image is the frame of the trailer tacked up.Third is the corner fit up prior to welding.Fourth is the frame on my new saw horses that I made after suggestions from another thread.Fifth is a weld of a cross brace. Don't give me any crap about my sloppy welds.More in next post. Attached Images
Reply:Here is the next set of photos.first two are cross member welds.Third is frame all welded up.Fourth is axle being installed.Fifth is a bracket weld, I will have to tie it in with the side weld when I do it because it is a bit short. I constantly stop short and it irritates me but seem to do it quite often. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerI encapsulated my wiring with the black plastic perforated automobile wrap then some tape. That stuff is tuff and protects it all from stone chips etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmI have used split loom in the past for other projects and even a few times on the wire going from the trailer tongue to the pick up.  Always had problems with it holding moisture and fine sand.  I switched to multi conductor trailer wiring and it has been great.  each wire is insulated individually and then covered in a water and oil resistant rubber.  It ain't cheap, but it works great.  It's also more flexible than the split loom, especially in the winter months.  After building several trailers and buying it by the foot, I gave in and now keep several spools with different numbers of conductors on hand.
Reply:Must have forgot to hit the post button ???Bob, I was looking forward to tongue pics.  Did the drawing make more sense once you got into it?
Reply:[QUOTE=Bob Warner;309581  I need to find a set of tail lights that have independent lights for each function. Not sure how easy that is going to be. Bob[/QUOTE]Bob,I do not know if these will work for you or not, I bought them at NAPA.I like them cause they recess.Just built some gates for the rear, thats why the primer is there. One seal busted casue I loaded a tractor without ramps  Thanks for the pics, more laterGeezer Attached Images
Reply:We are lucky to get these because I had my camera stored in a plastic bag in the shop to keep it clean and I went to get it to take these pictures and the bag let loose on the bottom and the camera fell out. Luckily I was fast enough to get my foot under it before it hit the concrete. Did not damage it as far as I can tell.Here are the next set of photos. First is how you store your axle while you are welding the brackets onto the trailer frame. I love having the winch mounted in the ceiling.Second is the fit up I ended up with when I cut and bent the tongue to follow under the frame. Came out pretty good. Third is the hitch welded on.Fourth is the rest of the fit up on the tongue part.Fifth is an overall of the trailer prior to turning it over. Attached Images
Reply:Trailer looks good Bob.  From the picture, it looks like your welds on the hitch are a bit on the cold side.  Could be the picture too.Otherwise, nothing wrong with your welds.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Mark, it is hard to tell but I actually burned a hole in the tube on that weld. I hid it pretty well but I think it is a good solid weld.To the guys that have built trailers, what paint are you using? Unfortunately I will have to paint outside. I will have to stand the trailer on its side to paint the bottom then after it dries, paint the top. Without a lift is that how you guys paint?
Reply:[/LIST][QUOTE=Bob Warner;309644]To the guys that have built trailers, what paint are you using? QUOTE]I do not know about the pro's, but I used Omni two part epoxy primer then followed it up with Omni MTK UrethaneJust curious, what did you use to keep your frame square while welding?
Reply:bob, on the trailers i build i use a rotisserie that i made.  it is simply a pipe that bolts to the tongue in the front and to the frame in the back.  on some of the trailers i have to repair, i weld it on.  you just place the pipe on the jack stand.  you may need to add a temporary spacer to your jack stand in order to get the clearance to roll the trailer.
Reply:Geezer,Where can you buy that paint? Is it easy to use and forgiving to a non-painter?As for keeping the frame square, I get is square and tack it several places on each corner. Then I weld inside to outside on one corner, then the opposite corner, and do the other two corners the same way. If you were to number your corners like this1234I would weld 1-4-3-2 Then flip it and repeat. Then do the verticals inside and out. Kept mine perfectly square.Scott,The rotisserie sounds like a good way to go. I don't have any jack stands but could use tall saw horses I would guess. I really need to get some jack stands but they are costly. Will have to make some when I get the time and find the right materials.Last edited by Bob Warner; 08-16-2009 at 06:21 PM.