Bender Question: What Am I Missing?

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This was an impulse buy, and might have been a stupid one.  It's the Hossfeld Number 1 model, which has a smaller capacity than the Number 2.  I haven't cleaned any of it up yet, or even cracked the manual -- which I'll do.  But I thought I'd post a quick picture and see if there are any obvious and essential pieces I'm missing (and if anyone has an idea for where to source the missing pieces).Thanks in advance for any guidance.And a dumb question: is anyone able to bend square tubing with these things?Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:That is a good set up, with the proper dies you can bend anything.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:You just need the Dies for Sq. Tubinghttp://www.hossfeldbender.com/toolin...are-tube.php#4Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:There is a long flat bar which inserts into the swing arm to give Jackthe leverage that he'll need.Blackbird
Reply:Hossfeld is still in business,  http://www.hossfeldbender.com/Dies are pricey and some you can make yourself, I have a #2 and use it all the time.
Reply:If you decide that you do not want to keep it let me know,I would like to take it off your hands, from some research I think that model might bend some flats and angle the hard way.  However if you keep it for a while and then decide to let it go still let me know, I will drive over and buy it from you.Thanks
Reply:Jack, Understand that the Hossfeld is a universal bender and as such does no particular operation as well as a purpose built bender. That isn't a bad situation at all IF you were wishing to own a universal bender, but if your work involves mainly round tube and such you would be much better served cutting your losses now before you're roped into perpetual ownership from the high cost of your die inventory. There are a number of benders out there nowadays that do round and square tubing better, easier and far cheaper than Hossfeld. None, except for American bender which is a near clone, does the range of a Hossfled.That said, I unsure if the die sets convert between the #2 and the #1. Hopefully they do. You have a good set of smaller pipe dies and some other good pieces there. Go look on the LoBuck tool site and purchase/talk them out of a manual for the Hossfeld as they are very finicky as to pin placement causing damage if done improperly.EDIT:http://www.lowbucktools.com/hossfeld.htmlCheap(er) than Hossfeld die sets...http://www.americanbender.com/Last edited by WyoRoy; 04-23-2012 at 09:03 PM.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Thanks, guys.  I definitely plan to keep it.  Hossfeld dies are expensive, though -- remember, I'm just a hobbyist.  Ed's picture got me thinking if I could adapt other dies and get 'close enough' to good results.  For example, Howron makes a square tubing die that stacks together to the size you want, like a dado blade.  Then you fasten it together.For $225 delivered, I can get the dies for:1/8" edge bend1/4" edge bend3/8" square tubing1/2" square tubing5/8" square tubing3/4" square tubing7/8" square tubing1" square tubing1 1/8" square tubing1 1/4" square tubing1 1/2" square tubingI'm thinking I could make the outside edge piece, something similar to the Hossfeld, but in a way that makes the radius right for the Hossfeld bender with the cheaper die.Also, with less than 1/8" of shimming in the bender arms themselves, I could fit in the roll bender dies from my Harbor Freight large-radius bender also.  I'm not sure exactly how it would work, but a guy built a small radius bender with his roll bender dies in this video: That guy is kind of a yahoo, sure.  But so am I.    I wonder if something like that could be worked into the Hossfeld base.  I'm just thinking out loud, right now.  It could be that none of it would work well, and that buying Hossfeld's pieces will make the most sense.  But I'm curious about what could be done.Last edited by Jack Olsen; 04-23-2012 at 09:16 PM.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Jack,The Howron die set will work, but will offer a more deformed final bend due to not having a follower die. If you look at the link Ed posted you'll note a long flat-bottomed U-shaped die in the picture. That die keeps the outer walls of the square tubing from flaring outward during the bend. For the money, it might be best to go with Howron and machine up a follower die for your particular needs. The follower die needs to be rather close tolerance and coated with teflon spray or other lubricant for smooth action during the bend.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:That's what I'm thinking.  It seems like the follower piece you describe would be easier to fabricate than the die components.  Not simple (for my skill level), but not impossible.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Jack,While fixing my lunch for work tonight I started thinking about that die set. Gotta say...it just might work quite well without a follower die as it does have those 'ears' on the side of the die that Hossfeld doesn't use. Maybe a bit more deformation, but probably well within acceptable levels...there is going to be deformation on the inside of the bends anyway. For the price, I'd certainly give it a try over Hossfeld as using the Hossfeld die sets will entail using a different die set, or pieces anyway...follower die would be different for each size tube. Also, above about 1" square tube you are going to want hydraulic assist. Hydraulics have the added benefit of not needing the bender bolted down or chucked tight in a holder on the top/side of your welding table. Final benefit of hydraulics is that with a foot pedal you'll have both hands to hold the work while it is being bent as there is some 'slop' in the bending action.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Jack,Only negative thing I've heard is that Hossfeld is no longer producing dies for the Model 1 (haven't confirmed that though).  Sounds like you've got the die situation well in hand anyway so think you'll be happy with that bender.As anyone with a bender can tell you, the cheapest part is the bender itself.  Where you really "get in deep" is with the dies.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Yeah, and it's not just the size of pipe or tubing, it's also the radius for each die in each size of pipe or tubing.  I can see it getting expensive in a hurry.  Maybe a justifiable expense for a shop.  But for a guy who might build his kid a go-kart or work some ornamental stuff for a fence, it could get prohibitive.If I can make the Howron die work, I get 11 dies for the price of one.  Still, it's doubling my investment and I'm only getting started, here.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Originally Posted by Jack Olsen Still, it's doubling my investment and I'm only getting started, here.
Reply:Jack,Just remembered, I believe I MAY have an old manual for a #1 laying around the shop somewhere...if I haven't already given it away. Shot me your address via PM, if I still have it, I'll send it on to somebody that can actually use it.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:One thing to think about also is the work area you need for the bender.Bending small brackets and such, no big deal but once you get in to the Go Kart tubing and you need to put a bend in a 5-6' piece you have to have 3-4 feet on the other side of the bender.Mounting it stationary and bending manually requires a beefy mount/post anchor.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thanks, WyoRoy.  I sent American Bender an email asking about what they've got that will fit.  And I've got the manual that came with it -- are we talking about the same thing?  In fact, I've got a price list an some other documentation -- all from early 1975.  (The prices back then were pretty decent.  )But thanks very much -- it's a generous offer.  If I get the time, I should scan this thing so that there's a downloadable copy available for it.  Ed, my first thought was to put some holes in the bench it's sitting on.  But the more I think about it, the more I think making a base for it out in the driveway might be smarter.  You know how tight space is around here, but I was thinking I'd try to find a way to sink some... well, here's my crazy thought: I've got some 1"x6" Simpson wedge anchors.  What if I sank four of those in my driveway, but the cut them off flush once they were set (maybe with some epoxy for insurance), and then cut them flush with the surface of the concrete, then drilled and tapped a hole for a 1/2" bolt to go down into each one?  That way I could put in some rounded off bolts in the holes so I'm not creating a tripping hazard when the thing isn't in place.  And I could make a base plate for the pedestal with a hole set that would allow me to unfasten it and move it in (say) 30° increments, so I could orient it for longer pieces (my driveway isn't very wide).Or is there a type of wedge anchor available with a female threaded hole?  I guess stainless and with some kind of a drain would be ideal.  But if I could keep it capped, I don't think water would be too much of a problem.  Better still if it could be countersunk so that it'd be flush with a bolt in it.  I could have a stack of washers welded to the base to fill up the countersunk space.Not sure if that makes any sense at all.  Again, an amateur thinking out loud.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Good idea about putting/using the bender out in the driveway.  They need space around them, unless you are only using/doing pretty small items.  Then you just need the space around them for the handle (still pretty big space claim/sweep, just not as bad as a 10-20 ft stick of steel sticking out of the bender).For the 'floor' anchors, just use a "drop-in anchor" like this or similar:http://www.boltdepot.com/Double_expa...inc_alloy.aspxhttp://www.grainger.com/Grainger/dro...rue&Pid=searchNo reason to go through the trouble/effort to try and turn a 'male' wedge anchor into a 'female'.  Just get the 'female' in the first place.For your 'driveway', I don't remember what it is made of.  If asphalt, NG.  If concrete, you need it (or at least the area where you want to set your anchors) to be thick and strong enough to withstand some pretty serious yanking.  If the concrete is not in good enough condition, then you might have to just remove a small section and pour a 'pier' of the appropriate size and depth (and thus weight) to be able to anchor to.  Not all that big of a deal.  If you have an area in the 'yard' with enough space around it, you could also do the 'pier' idea out there.  Dig hole, fill with concrete, trowel off top to be flat and level.  Call it yard art.    Set anchors into concrete pier, then just carry out and attach the bender to the pier when you want to use it.  If doing a lot of use over time, humping and then attaching and detaching the tool will get old pretty quickly.  But if you don't have the space to leave it attached all the time, you do what ya gotta.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Moon already told  ya about the drop in anchors- there are threads about that.Even on your bench, if you look at the pic- the handle on the bender sits back too far to even get leverage.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Anchors arrived today.  The other advantage to putting it in the driveway is that I've been needing an anchor point for a winch to pull dead cars up the sloped part of my driveway.  I think I can kill two birds with one anchor.If there are any other Hossfeld #1 owners out there, I scanned in the Instruction Manual and could email it to them.Next up, I want to build a pedestal base for this thing.And so the information is out there and searchable:American Bender does not have parts for the #1.Hossfeld and LowBuck both do sell the parts -- it looks like for the same cost.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Originally Posted by Jack OlsenThat guy is kind of a yahoo, sure.  But so am I.    I wonder if something like that could be worked into the Hossfeld base.
Reply:Hah!  I'm busted!  I only meant... well, you never got it clamped right in the clip -- and you didn't just start over when you'd worked out the best way to clamp it.  It created the impression of someone who was just making the bender for fun.  But I see from your links you run a business and do nice work......so accept my apology.For clarification, I'm a guy who's enough of a yahoo to work and work and work to save a few bucks by engineering my own bending schemes and eating up a huge amount of time in the process.  I only meant that as being different from the guys who are doing a lot of steady production work and who have no reason to try and save a few dollars by home-engineering stuff, for fun or otherwise.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Jack,You may want to head over to YouTube and check out the two version of the Simonian Bender. Different sort of bending action for heavier stock. Slowly building a copy of the larger model...finished cutting the bottom plate out of 1" the other night. It may just be something you would want in the shop to go on top of the same mount as your Hossfeld #1...not at the same time.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jack OlsenHah!  I'm busted!  I only meant... well, you never got it clamped right in the clip -- and you didn't just start over when you'd worked out the best way to clamp it.  It created the impression of someone who was just making the bender for fun.  But I see from your links you run a business and do nice work......so accept my apology.For clarification, I'm a guy who's enough of a yahoo to work and work and work to save a few bucks by engineering my own bending schemes and eating up a huge amount of time in the process.  I only meant that as being different from the guys who are doing a lot of steady production work and who have no reason to try and save a few dollars by home-engineering stuff, for fun or otherwise.
Reply:I'm sorry to hear that, John.I have a question for anyone who's set up a pedestal for one of these benders.  I'm extremely limited on space, the driveway is only about 10' wide, with walls on either side.  I'm going to make holes in the base so that the whole thing can be rotated in 15° increments.  But it occurs to me that I might not want to mount it smack in the middle of the driveway, but possibly a foot or so off of one wall, since the mounting end of the bender doesn't need the clearance that the swinging arm needs. Am I right about that?  I haven't spent enough time using the thing to know where I'll need the most space.  I'd hate to drill these holes and set these anchors and then realize I should have put it in the middle of the space.Jack OlsenMy garage websiteJack,You may need more than a foot or two off the wall. Place the handle in the bender a see where the start/stop points are. I haven't used mine manually in ages, but seem to remember it swung around from the 2 o'clock to 10 o'clock positions. You would be doing yourself a considerable favor to convert over to hydraulic and no longer need a fixed mounting location. Ought to be a few hydraulic pumping units used by the lowriders out there on Craigslist L.A. Simple conversion.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.