Help with 5/32 6010 Vertical Up

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In my class, we just started doing T Joints in Vertical Up and im having real troubles with undercut and arc blow, andyone have any tips like amperage or techniques? ( i can sometimes get the root pass pretty decent, its the cap that screws me up) Since the heat is travelling up, when i weld i melt the top of the plate right out, anyone know whats going on? My teacher taught us basic weave patterns and step patterns, but his method of teaching is very... non existent, can anyone help me?long arc, short arc, heliarc and in the dark, Going to okanagan college for the 'c' ticket
Reply:I make an upside down T, the long part of the T is where I move my rod when I'm letting the cap freeze, if you understand what I mean.. I start with a  side to side motion then I advance up just a little bit then I come back down just on top of the last side to side and do it again and keep working my way up the plate or pipe. It makes a really nice cap if you can keep your motion close to the same the whole time...
Reply:One of the biggest issues I've found with new welders and vertical is that they haven't yet learned to read the puddle. On flat and horizontal, they can get away with what I refer to as timing patterns. That doesn't work with vertical. If you can't read the puddle and manipulate it, you won't get far at this point.Undercut I usually find comes from them not waiting until the puddle catches up to the arc on the sides to fill. I usually tel them to pause on the side until they see the puddle catch up to the arc and then quickly swing over across to the other side and pause again until the puddle catches up and repeat. The second big issue is usually holding too long an arc length, possibly due to  poor rod angle. With stick, especially 6010, arc length will play a big part of whats going on with the puddle. Being able to see and understand exactly what is happening with the puddle as you manipulate the rod will be critical to getting the results you are looking for. If your arc length is too long, you'll melt more material than you will fill. Someone who can read the puddle will recognize this issue and be able to tighten up to cool things off and fill more before moving on.Good luck..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:For the arc blow you might try tacking some scrap on to the top of the Tee joint to carry the magnetic field higher up.  In effect make a scrap Tee joint that you cut off afterward much like run off tabs.  Set your workpiece connection to the top of the joint runoff piece.  Welding toward your clamp often helps.   Reducing your amperage slightly will reduce the strength of the magnetic field.  I am going to guess that you have not done a vertical with 1/8th E 6010 yet?  It is a big jump to manipulate large rods on small practice pieces in a booth.  They tend to overheat, magnifying your problems.  One tactic is to set up two tee joints and alternate so that they get a chance to cool off before you run another rod.   Stand behind you classmates and watch their techniques.  You can learn a lot off each other if you guys get along.  Also friendly up with any upgraders that might be there.  Don't force yourself on them since they are practicing for tests and paying big dollars for their time but they might have some suggestions over coffee.    Don't be a pain in the arse but if you are paying for a service make sure that you are putting the time and effort in.  Then you can expect the same from the school and if you are not getting your money's worth then politely ask for it.
Reply:I agree with both lotech and dsw.  I want to reiterate rod angle and arc length.  When I learned that everything came together.  I tried everything people said, but to no avail.  One day I was playing around with arc distance and noticed I could really affect the temp of th puddle by length of the arc. I also played with the angle and the control over the puddle was amazing. I could move the puddle where ever I wanted instead of it controlling what I did.
Reply:Thanks guys, helped alot! i actually got pretty decent weldments out of the 6010 today from the help, for my second pass though on the 6010, but now weve started on 1/8 7018 and theres a biiiig difference therelong arc, short arc, heliarc and in the dark, Going to okanagan college for the 'c' ticket
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott YoungI agree with both lotech and dsw.  I want to reiterate rod angle and arc length.  When I learned that everything came together.  I tried everything people said, but to no avail.  One day I was playing around with arc distance and noticed I could really affect the temp of th puddle by length of the arc. I also played with the angle and the control over the puddle was amazing. I could move the puddle where ever I wanted instead of it controlling what I did.
Reply:Hold yer toes.... As said above, watch your puddle, timing isnt everything. You'll find, in a booth- arc blow sucks, deal with it, manipulate the rod and angle to compensate for it.As you reach top 3rd, you'll move faster, its already toasty hot and puddle will want to wonder.Keep coupon near edge of table so you can get stinger low enough to fight the arc-blow.6010 is a go-to rod, make it your bitch and it will be a useful rod in the arsenal...Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:Originally Posted by SmokeStackProblem with having to long of an arc length is porosity... It can also be a cause of undercut. Things to watch for.
Reply:since this is still fresh for me what I did was.... to control arc blow turn up the temperature even though this goes against what you think might help on vertical. Reason is I used to pretty much touch my rod to the metal, so with the higher temp it wouldnt stick. now to control my puddle I did longer whips just gotta be real careful how far you come back and last but not least to see the puddle better stand to the side not directly behind it or even better under it. Your point of view on the puddle will be night and day from underneath.
Reply:Oh god, you're at okanagan college.  Heaven help you!A kid with no welding experience...will not be able to do 5/32 6010 uphand.  start smaller and work your way up.Last edited by mb_welder; 05-16-2012 at 09:36 PM.
Reply:Put your rod straight in the rod holder so when arc blow starts happening you have all the room in the world to re adjust  and hold on your corners and when it flows to the middle move to the next side in a slight U. By the time you get a few inches up, your rod  will be on the same angle as your test piece and thumbnailling like a bastard , but your cool after that. Arc blow licked!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by mb_welderOh god, you're at okanagan college.  Heaven help you!A kid with no welding experience...will not be able to do 5/32 6010 uphand.  start smaller and work your way up.