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I currently use a Bobcat 250NT and Millermatic Passport on the truck for stick, fluxcore and mig. Both machines are in very good condition and have been working fine for me. I have been wanting to add a Suitcase-8vs wire feeder to my truck equipment for easier portability and greater power output than the Passport for mig/flux. I have also been wanting to add remote-control capability for dc tig and aluminum mig to use with my Spoolmatic 15A or XR/Python or Cobramatic wire feeders, as well as upgrade to a more advanced stick welding maching with arc control and hot start, since I liked welding with the CST 280 stick welder I have used. To accomplish, this I have decided I want to either upgrade the Bobcat to a Trailblazer, or run an XMT off my Bobcat. The Bobcat's generator puts out 10,000 watts, 44 amps @ 240 volts, which should be enough to run the XMT for most of it's power range, just not all the way maxxed out. I don't percieve a need to run it over 300 amps so I should be fine.If I get the XMT, I want to get the 350MPa model with gas soleniod kit, cause I like to pulse weld with my Millermatic 350P in the shop and adding pulsed mig/flux capability to the truck would be the cat's meow. I want the gas soleniod kit to dc tig from the XMT. Miller has a very attractive combo package deal that includes the XMT 350MPa, plus a Suitcase Xtreme 8vs wire feeder w/ meters and Q300 gun.I got on Cyberweld.com to comparison price shop the different possibilities and found the following models and pricing to get an idea of which way I may want to go--Suitcase XTreme 8VS w/ meters & Q300 gun, Miller part # 300093-011Price for feeder w meters & gun = $1555Trailblazer 302, Kohler gas w/ GFCI, Miller part # 907216-011Price for welder + cover ($120) = $4048 + feeder w meters & gun ($1555) = $5603Trailblazer 275DC, Kohler gas w/ GFCI, Miller part # 907214-011Price for welder + cover ($120) = $3868 + feeder w meters & gun ($1555) = $5423XMT 350MPa + Suitcase XTreme 8VS w/ meters & Q300, Miller part # 951081Price for welder w/ gas soleniod ($60) & cover ($50) + feeder w meters & gun = $5569Welder specs-Trailblazer 275DCDC/CC stick/tig- 10-275 amps, 275 amps @ 100% dutyDC/CV mig/flux- 13-33 volts, 20-275 amps, 275 amps @ 100% dutyTrailblazer 302DC/CC stick/tig- 10-300 amps, 280 amps @ 100% dutyDC/CV mig/flux- 13-35 volts, 10-325 amps, 300 amps @ 100% dutyXMT 350MPa on single phase 230v power, max current draw 54.6 ampsDC/CC stick/tig- 5-425 amps, 300 amps @ 32 volts @ 60% dutyDC/CV mig/flux- 10-38 volts, 5-425 amps, 300 amps @ 32 volts @ 60% dutySuitcase XTreme 8VS feeder & Q300 mig gun14-48 volts, 330 amps @ 60% dutyAs one can see, all 3 options are very close in price, less than $200 between lowest and highest. I don't percieve of needing any more weld power than any of these machines provides. I'm not a heavy structural welder, I do mainly repair and fabrication in thicknesses up to 1/2", but mostly 1/4" and less.Buying the XMT with the Suitcase as a package represents a savings of about $300 over buying them seperately. Basicaly, buying as a package means you get the meters on the feeder for free, since meters are about a $300 option on the feeder when purchased by itself.Miller does not offer a Trailblazer/Suitcase package deal that I am aware of. This would be a really good idea though! :big grin (hint, hint.. Miller marketing department...)The only advantage I see to the Trailblazer 302 over the 275DC is the AC weld output. I don't normally use the AC weld output of my Bobcat at all, except for a rare instance of solving arc blow when stick welding, but usually just moving the ground location solves that. I feel I could get away with the 275DC, but the 302 is only $180 more and would have greater resale appeal should I want to change machines in the future.The advantage to the XMT over the Trailblazers are the Pulse capability, the ability to run a tig torch without a gas valve in the torch, and possibility of using the XMT by itself in the shop. The gas valve is not a big concern but the pulse and the ability to use the XMT seperately are significant.Storing the XMT on the truck is a concern I have though. I have limited space on the truck and theft and weather protection would be of extreme importance to me with a machine so expensive and portable. The Trailblazer has the advantage there since everything is contained and protected inside the one machine.I know I would need the WC-24 controller to connect the Spoolmatic to the Trailblazers. What about the XMT, does it need the WC-24 too or does the Spoolmatic connect directly? The WC-24 costs about $250 I think. The Cobramatic and XR push-pull feeders I have all run on 115v, so no controller would be needed for those.So anyways, I figured I would ask all of you what your opinions are about all this and what would be your choice and why ??Thanks for replying!Last edited by DesertRider33; 02-06-2009 at 10:36 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Take a look at the specs for the TB 302 and 275 again. On CV, the 302 output is listed as 50a and two volts higher. For CV, that is a huge jump. Mine has topped out at 365a. If you are planning on running wire, that alone was my tipping factor for the 302.Also, if you are SERIOUS about running wire, besides the 302, you really need to look at the RC feeders. I run a 12RC on my 302 and it is just like running a shop MIG unit. You have total control at the feeder panel rather than at the machine. A VS feeder will do fine on a TB as I have two, but the RC is MUCH better. There is the issue with the expensive RC cable, but it is well worth it. Also, any particular reason to get a 8" feeder? I started out with a 8VS, and while it is a good feeder, it limited me to more expensive wires and shut me out completely on exotic wires. I lost a big crusher rebuild job because the wire they used and supplied was only available in 12" spools. 12" spools are heavier, but the savings can be significant on some wires and cored wires.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Thanks for your reply! I have been debating about the VS versus RC feeder. Some have said the VS runs just like RC but I have no idea, i've never used either model of Suitcase. Only external feeders I have used have been XR, Cobramatic, 22/24A and 70-series, which are all remote control. The RC feeder is more expensive and the control cable is expensive too, but I have to have a control cable to run the Spoolmatic or the push-pull feeders anyways, so the control cable cost shouldn't figure into the cost comparison of RC versus VS feeder. I just thought the VS would be a better deal cause I can use it on anything. How is the welding difference between the VS and RC ??The XMT and Suitcase-8RC package is about $400 more than the XMT and Suitcase-8VS package. Is the RC worth the extra $400 ?I have limited space on the truck and also am tired of lugging the heavy Passport around when I want or need to use wire instead of stick. With a full roll of wire it weighs about 60 lbs. I thought the smaller, lighter Suitcase-8 at about 20 lbs less and slimmer profile would be handier to use and easier to find a place to keep it on the truck than a Suitcase-12. I figure if I need to run a 12" spool of wire for something, I can bring one of the Cobramatics or the XR. I think I would probly get the Trailblazer 302 instead of the 275DC anyways, there's not much difference in the price. My main decision is between the TB-302 and the XMT-mpa. I just threw the TB-275 in there cause it attracted me too.Last edited by DesertRider33; 02-06-2009 at 12:24 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:The machine will dictate the arc quality since it is where the juice comes from. The arc quality of my Bobcat/8VS was ok...the TB/8VS was great. The TB/RC is even better since you have way more control over the arc at the feeder. It makes a quarter or half volt change way easier than running back to the machine and fiddling with it there. Its really nice when you are up in the air running stuff. I typically use the VS feeders when I need to be a very long way away from the machine. When it is critical stuff or delicate in the parameter side, the RC gets the job, hands down. Running dual shield is much easier with the RC than the VS, IMO. The RC vs. VS argument winner can only be determined by what you intend to do with it. If I was running lots of different wires including dual shield, exotics, hard MS wire and all transfer processes, I would say the RC is the only way to go. If long distances from the truck were the norm, a VS would be some better, unless precise process control was mandatory. In that case, the inverter and feeder running off of a machine, Bobus or TB, may be a better choice. The decision can get you running in circles for a very long time until you decide what is what. I started with a VS, bought another one, and then got the RC. So I have two VS, 1-8" and 1-12" and a 12" RC. That is by far the best setup I can think of. Almost all the bases are covered. FWIW, both VS feeders came from Ebay, one used and the other new, old stock. I didn't pay more than 550 clams for either. The RC was purchased new. Determining exactly what you want the feeder to do will be paramount in determining which one to get.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Thanks for sharing your experiences!I am thinking the best arc quality will probly come from the XMT. The XMT 304 I have used was great with a remote control feeder.I'll be primarily using fluxcore and some solid wire in the feeder at up to 200 feet away from the truck, though it's usually more like only 50 feet away. Mostly E71T-11, E71T-GS, ER70S-6 with mix gas or CO2 and maybe some E71T-8. I've not run dual sheild from the truck before. All of this has been in short circuit. With the XMT or Trailblazer I would have enough juice to spray arc steel, or pulsed spray with the XMT. I'm thinking of the pulsing with aluminum mig. I wonder how the XMT would work pulsing with a VS feeder versus an RC ? The only material I weld from the truck now is carbon steel. With the XMT or Trailblazer, I'll be able use the spool gun or push-pull setup for aluminum and dc tig for stainless. Those are the only metals I've been asked about welding from the truck so far. Would you say the RC or VS would be better for my uses?I think what I really want is the XMT instead of the Trailblazer, though I believe the Trailblazer would be the more practical choice for the truck. I had really wanted that new Trailblazer Air Pak, so I could take my big heavy air compressor off the truck, make some space, save some weight and gain some advanced weld process ability, all in one machine... untill I saw the rediculus price they want for it. I could buy the Trailblazer 302 and the XMT350MPa and the Suitcase-8xx feeder for as much as they want for that Air Pak!So, I guess it's still a toss-up between Trailblazer / XMT and VS / RC feeder...Last edited by DesertRider33; 02-06-2009 at 03:07 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Sounds like either feeder would do it. You already have the Bobus 250, so it would actually power the XMT better.....given that setup, I'd seriously get the RC over the VS. Run a long extension cord for the XMT and a 75' control cable for the Feeder and you will have a long reach...much longer than the 75' from the 302 will allow. You can double the control cable, although that will entail some voltage loss...as to how much, I don't know. The TIG on the XMT and 302 will be awsome and either will give you a good arc and higher capacities. Looks to me like you need to flip a coin because, IMO, you are really looking at apples and apples. Only negative I see is the XMT requires a bit more lugging around. QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Yeah, that lugging around may get tiring, the XMT weighs about 80 lbs. I think it will be worth it though. Fortunately, most of what I need to do with the feeder should usually be able to be done within the 75' of control cable length recommended for the rc feeder. Finding a spot to keep the XMT on the truck needs to be addressed if I go that route.I am now leaning to the RC feeder too, from your advice and also I called Miller and asked them what they thought. Their reccomendation was about same as yours, either feeder will work, but the RC is the top choice for performance, especially in pulse from the XMT and being that I need a control cable for the spoolgun anyways and the XMT can be carried further from the truck to make the total reach long enough. They recommend no more than 75' of control cable for the RC feeder to work great, but 100' of primary power cable can be run from the Bobcat to the XMT to make up for the lack of cable length between the XMT and the feeder.Well I guess I have a few things to think about...MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:If you're doing a lot of out-of-position welding, I think you'll be happier with the RC feeder. The puddle control should be better and turbulence/spatter should be less, with the better voltage control of the RC feeder; all other things being equal.We have XMT350's in the shop, and while they're heavy they're not too tough to move. For field work, you might consider some kind of custom dolly or cart, with big rubber tires. You could load the powersupply, suitcase feeder, and misc onto it, and then roll it from your truck to the work.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Thanks, I am thinking the rc is the way to go. Most of what I do from the truck is out of position.That is a good idea on the all terrain dolly. Me likey.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks again for the discussion and ideas guys.I am leaning even further to the XMT now cause I was thinking more about how I would tig from the truck with either the Trailblazer or the XMT. I can move the XMT to the work for tig if I can't get the truck close enough, instead of trying to come up with a 50 foot long or longer tig torch and pedal to get from the truck/Trailblazer to the work. I have a few questions about the XMT, but I will ask those in another topic.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:What really sold me on my RC was welding the column heads on my shop with FC. I had to run the flanges at one voltage and the web at a couple of volts less. Since I was 16' in the air, running to the machine to turn down a VS would have been a HUGE pain. IMO, whether it is off of a XMT or TB, the RC feeder is the way to go.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Yeah that would be a pain.I was talking to the Miller service tech and asked him if a remote hand control, like for use with stick welding, would work with a VS feeder to allow voltage control of the XMT or Trailblazer at the feeder location. He said it would work with the XMT, wasn't sure about the Trailblazer. In that case though, if I'm running a control cable for the hand control anyways, may as well connect it to an RC feeder instead if the RC welds better than the VS.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Get them all...just to be sureYou know you want toG
Reply:Originally Posted by gordfraserGet them all...just to be sureYou know you want to
Reply:Just a crazy thought. If you keep the bobcat, buy a XMT and a suitcase, there are three pieces of equipment to haul around. The Trailblazer will do what the bobcat and XMT do in one machine. I run a Trailblazer, suitcase, 30A spoolgun and high freq tig box. Never had any issues with the 75' extension cord. Trailblazer is the cost effective way to go, in my book. Sell the bobcat and recover some cash.My 2 cents.
Reply:yea. your going to get fed up humping out the xmt to weld everything cause the arc is better than the bobcat. cash it in and get the TB302, then you might not need the xmt at all.only thing you might miss is pulsed mig, depending on which xmt.if you need it add an optimaLast edited by gordfraser; 02-08-2009 at 12:52 PM.G
Reply:Those are definitely considerations I will have to be thinking about before I spend any money. Thanks for all your advice!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I'm looking for similar set up. I will probably stick with stick for structural welding because most of the time I'm in the air and move around a lot. I have some big handrail projects starting soon with a lot of on site fabrication and would like a mig set up. As of right now I don't have a mobile set up so i will be starting from scratch. Have you made any decisions and if so are happy with what you bought? I don't have much time on a mig gun so I really don't know that much about them.
Reply:90% of my work is mobile field work. I have been down the road with shop welders on a truck, and have no plans to do it again. You will use up more space, and add weight on the truck not to mention the time you lose taking down and setting up the machines. You also have the fact that shop machines were not designed to be knocked, beaten, and vibrated around on a truck. Get a portable machine that is designed to run the accessories that you want to run. You will be ahead in the long run.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Thanks for all the ideas and advice everyone. I ended up buying an XMT 304 CC/CV and keeping the Bobcat. The Bobcat runs the XMT fine and I like stick welding with it. I bought the WC-24 controller to use the Spoolmatic with the XMT and it does work, though I am still fiddling with it. I bought an SSC foot pedal and an air cooled tig torch and once I get that all hooked up and an argon bottle on the truck I'll see how it does with dc tig. I haven't bought the Suitcase feeder just yet but I think I've decided on the 8RC model, whenever I can afford it. I tried a friend's Suitcase 12VS with the XMT and it did work fine but I think I prefer a remote control feeder instead. The voltage sensing one just didn't feel 'right' to me. I'm just used to remote control feeders.As for hauling the XMT, it fits in the lock box in the bed that I used to keep the Passport in and I am going to re-arrange the truckbed so I can put another lock box on for the Passport. This arrangement seems to be working well so far. I padded up the inside of the lock box to keep the XMT from banging around inside so hopefully everything will be fine. Miller puts the guts of the XMT 304 in the Pipe Pro 304 engine drive welder so I figure I'm doing just about the same thing they already did, just in 2 seperate boxes. I am going to work on hooking up the XR feeder and Python torch to the XMT too at some point. This XMT doesn't pulse, but it can connect to the Optima pulser if I want to get one of those in the future for pulsed aluminum mig. One thing at a time for now though.The XMT has really opened up alot of possibilities for me on the truck and didn't cost much money. I think I made a good choice. Other alternatives, though possibly more ideal, would have cost alot more. I started this journey with dreams of buying a new Trailblazer Air Pak. Well, sometimes dreams are bigger than the wallet, but I am happy with what I have and best of all... no new debt was incurred. Last edited by DesertRider33; 03-09-2009 at 12:36 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DesertRider, anytime you improve your setup without incurring debt you can't go wrong. Anytime I see a tool or machine that will benefit me, and I can buy without borrowing I get. It's never served me wrong so far. Sometimes sacrifices may have to be made, but you always wind up for the better in the end.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingDesertRider, anytime you improve your setup without incurring debt you can't go wrong. Anytime I see a tool or machine that will benefit me, and I can buy without borrowing I get. It's never served me wrong so far. Sometimes sacrifices may have to be made, but you always wind up for the better in the end.
Reply:98% of my field welding is wire anymore. cant go wrong with the Trailblazer 302 voltage sensing comboVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Thanks for the help guys.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Yeah that would be a pain.I was talking to the Miller service tech and asked him if a remote hand control, like for use with stick welding, would work with a VS feeder to allow voltage control of the XMT or Trailblazer at the feeder location. He said it would work with the XMT, wasn't sure about the Trailblazer. In that case though, if I'm running a control cable for the hand control anyways, may as well connect it to an RC feeder instead if the RC welds better than the VS.You must have one of the few models of Thermal Arc that share the same 14 pin connector wiring as Miller. My Thermal Arc's connector isn't even 14 pin. It's 6 or 8 pin if I remember right.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:i was told that the reason they have different plug configs. is because all the manufacturers use different ohms in there remotes. it to stop you connecting up the wrong one.Im not sure if the TA 14pin is the same conf. as the miller 14pin.I have a 14pin miller pedal that wouldnt work on a TA 300 arc master for that reason......although i never tried it as the guy sounded like he knew exactly what he was talking aboutG
Reply:Well that makes sense. My PowCon uses a completely different configuration of 14-pin plug than the Millers. The plugs and receptacles won't even plug into eachother.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:50:15