vertical up stick welding tips?

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Hey, i'm half way done my first year welding course, and we are starting vertical. I'm using the 7018 1/8 on 120 amps, and tried on 130 amps but it still looks like crap. I'm doing the weave but in some spots there is a huge build up, and not in others. Any tips would be great.
Reply:i  put the rod on one side and count 1,2,3 and then put the rod on the other side and count 1,2,3.  after awhile you will forget to count and just watch the puddle and see it fill in.  also depending upon your coupon you may need to turn your heat down.
Reply:That counting method is the best way (I've found) to train yourself.  It's just a matter of timing, current, rod angle, etc...  You get the picture but seriously timing and practice, practice, practice.  Don't feel like you have to whip the rod from side to side, just move the puddle across and give your pause.  It'll take a while to get it but when you do its just like riding a bike.  Best of luck!- If you can jump across it you can weld it!  - anonymous old boilermaker
Reply:Watch your puddle.  I use a boxed weave.  Basically go across the joint, pause and watch the puddle, let it fill in the crater, then step up (half a rod thickness) and back across the center of the joint again, let the crater fill and step up half a rod thickness and go back across the joint again.  Keep repeating this until you finish the joint.   DO NOT pause in the center, only on the sides.  The center will take care of itself !!!!I do not use the counting method, never did. I just watch closely. But if it works for you go for it !  Its all about what works !Also make sure your lense is clean.  When in school I sometimes noticed I could not see, it was due to the lense being really dirty....  Seeing is half the battle....
Reply:Oh yeah   The specs on a 1/8 7018 are 115-165 amps.   If you try running much colder than 120 amps (I wouldnt run any colder than 110 amps) you may start to have issues with rods sticking.   If you start getting undercut running around 120 amps go to a smaller rod.   Theres nothing worse than trying to run a rod cold, while trying to get a good looking weld.  You'll concentrate so much on not sticking the rod your welds will end up looking bad....  I was taught to run as hot as I could without undercut.....   Oh and keep as tight an arc as you can....
Reply:Ok, well forthe 1,2,3 way, i'm doing this on an X joint. When i'm weaving should i change my angel as i'm weaving from one side to the other?
Reply:Someone once told me to think like you are using a kitchen broom to hold a tennis ball against a wall. When you start out keep a tight arc. After some time you will learn that if you pull out and increase the arc length you can get a tad bit more heat. Its all a matter of hood time. Weld weld weld is my best advice. The counting thing works great. Use it.'Mike
Reply:If you are in a class, taking instruction,,,,   these are all questions you should be asking your instructor, no?????????   Assuming he is being PAID to teach you, can actually SEE what you are laying down, and being right there, on the spot, wouldn't you agree???Not trying to devalue any other advice you might get here,,,,,,  but one would think he or she would be in the best position to coach you.
Reply:Originally Posted by mark8310If you are in a class, taking instruction,,,,   these are all questions you should be asking your instructor, no?????????   Assuming he is being PAID to teach you, can actually SEE what you are laying down, and being right there, on the spot, wouldn't you agree???Not trying to devalue any other advice you might get here,,,,,,  but one would think he or she would be in the best position to coach you.
Reply:Keeping a short arc is really important.  I don't count, but watch the puddle and move when its ready.  After a while, you will know when its ready.  It just takes seat time.  Move IN the puddle and over, then up. You want to bring the puddle with you, not jump out of it.  Herd to explain, but start to move over before up.Here is a single pass fillet.  There was about a 3/16" gap behind it.This is a 1/2" fillet vertical up.  Its a huge weld, but it can be done.DavidLast edited by David R; 01-16-2009 at 09:12 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:crispy. 7018  is a nice rod to use out of position.I can (just) remember learning it in all the positions, and vert up was a bottle neck for me. Then one day it just happened.120 is a good place to start. personaly i'd go down from there if i didn't like it, but not far down.a lot is down to confidence. definatly hold on the edges. not at all in the middle.Ythe other thing that can make it drop in the middle is if you arnt traveling up fast enough.It is hard to define where to aint in the puddle to progress upward as it can depend on the width and how much of a pool you are carrying. I usually weave a narrow "stringer" type bead @ 5/8" wide at the most (with 1/8" 7018) and i would guess id be going up at about 30 degrees from side to side, but always holding for at least 2 secs each side. Just like the other posts said. untill the puddle fills out (thats filling out the undercut).  If you still get undercut then turn it down 10 amps. Remember that a coupon only gets hotter as you weld it.  So let it cool down or turn it down as you go (assumng that the coupon is small)G
Reply:Crispy, IMO it sounds like your running pretty good on your amps, every machine is different. just remember to get comfortable, clean, clean, clean, rod pointed slightly up, and which ever method you choose just do it nice and consistent, I like to weave mine, and pause slightly on the sides. Keep your rod at 90 degrees from your work. Just remember nobody ever put in a bad weld from keeping it too clean.
Reply:When I used to weld I did ups like a xmas tree, arc it, move to left, pause, across to right, pause, up to centre, down to left, pause, over to right, up to centre, down to left etc,etcputs out a nice weld and would pass any testCheers
Reply:Crispy,How thick is the metal and what type of joint are you welding ? The manipulation of the rod helps spread out some heat. The arc length reduces how far the metal has to travel and reduces the voltage across the arc.All of the advice you have received above seems sound. It may just be a matter of practice or possibly getting some thicker metal. At least to start with. The thicker base metal will be more resistant to sagging.Hope this helps.GeraldHave a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:I think i'm using 3/4" steel, not really to sure what kind of steel it is though.
Reply:you are in class . why aren't  you running stringers and more stringers ? turn up your heat to about 135 . if your in class  and going to take the test stringers are a safer way to pass test . like others said if you have an instructor he's should be giving you all the particulars.also if you can have this person run a few beads and watch their technique it could help yours.
Reply:I did get my teacher to, but like i said in a pre post i'm doing this at home as practice. When he did the demo for me he was doing the weave, but when i was trying it after he showded me it looked like ****. So i decided i'd give er a try at home on my own, and i was looking for tips. And as for running a stringer on the vertical up, i tried that, and it looked worse than my weave. Dont you read the above posts? First semester was stringers in the Flat position, we did that for 3 months, and did the CWB flat. Now were doing Vert and Horz. And 135 seems a little to high, 125 seemed like a heathly mediumLast edited by Crispy_1; 01-17-2009 at 06:18 PM.
Reply:hrdhatdivr is just saying run stringers in the vertical.  They are better, less chance of flaws.  If you're going to give people on here aditutde when they offer advice you wont end up with much help.... "Dont you read the above posts?"   People dont always have time to read through a half dozen posts before they reply.Oh and you better get good at running stringers vertical not all codes allow weaves.Im curious what part of the country are you in ?
Reply:crispy as an attitude  i don't need it running stringers in flat and running them vertical r 2 different things . first you'll have less flaws  better for taking test is what i said and as last poster some procedure requirements may only call for stringers . and if in class you should be doing alot of vert. stringers get proficient at it then more to the weave..enough said about that my 2 cents now if you want to weave tilt ur plate back maybe start at 45 degrees and weld for a while get used to running the rod and then make the angle less still learning to control the puddle then do this again until you can run with plkate straight upand down.second post your vert pics so we can see what ur doing to help critique
Reply:Wont let me edit my spelling mistake in my post ugh !  hrdhatdivr thats pretty much what our instructor had us do for verticals when I was doing them.   Good sound advice there.
Reply:here is a vidieo I tried to make.  This is the triangle weave.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hey guys, sorry to jump in on a thread but I've been lurking for a month or two now while i'm starting school and have been stuck on doing vertical up 7018 1/8" overlapping stringers for days now and am loosing my mind.  We were taught to do all of our "stringers" with a weave pattern (crescents for 6011 and z weaves for 7018).  I am consistenly getting undercut on all of them with any power I select (from ~90 to 110 on a Licolnc Idealarc 250).  I keep no more than 5-10 uphill pitch on my rod and am keeping it totally purpendicular to the plate but sometimes it wont cut in properly to the previous bead or it cuts in too far; should i be trying a different weave pattern?  Sorry, it's uber late and i hope that all made sense.  Any insight any of you folks would have I would be forever greatful for.  And as an aside, this board has proven to be invaluable to me over the last couple of months with the limited instruction we get at school and I sure appreciate it.
Reply:When i finished it i found that 7018 3/32on around 90 to 95 was better for avoiding the under cut. Running a stringer vert up was hard, i did the Z pattern and it worked find, got 8's and 9's on the finished product.
Reply:Martin, try pausing a bit at the edges of the the stringer.  This will give the puddle a chance to fill the undercut.  Then jump to the other edge of your puddle and let that fill.  It is no more than a narrow weave.  This may not make sense but you may need to turn the heat up a bit.  Try it and see.  Watch the puddle to see what it is doing.  Also like any thing practice practice practice.
Reply:Thanks guys.  Managed to get it and am now on overhead overlaps   All the help and advice is greatly appreciated!As you can see there is more than one way to skin the cat.  Try a technique to see how you like it and if one feels comfortable to you then practice it until you can do it in your sleep.  After you get good at that one you should find that some of the others will fall into place after that.  Some of them may never be your favourite but that is life.When welding up the X to make a log out it my instructor got me to try the triangle like in the video in a previous post.  I like it and it works much better for me than stringers (because of my tremor).Keep practicing and you will see improvement before long Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.  In the real world of repair, the steel is either rusty, painted, galved, soaked in manure for years, oily etc. The biggest thing I've found is that you need to watch the slag line (the bottom edge of the puddle or trailing edge if flat welding) that line is what your finished weld will look like. Do WHATEVER is neccesary to keep that slag line consistant. Counting your edge holds and running patterns are secondary.  For shop, structural. and test plate welding where fit up is perfect, the above advice from these other guys is right on the money.