1/8" AL tig welding practice

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Darn I am confusing my self with my own questions when I found I had put the photos/questions about welding AL in with the thread on welding MS.So I am starting this thread to just post my progress on welding AL with my Dynasty 200.I am getting there slowly and would welcome any and all comments on my progress.  Today I did some more practice with the T weld and enclose a picture (sorry for resizing so small.How long should the legs be  on a fillet weld with AL 1/8"?  Seems that I would need more then you would with MS, is that correct?Thanks,Tim Attached ImagesLast edited by Ultrachop; 01-14-2009 at 04:07 AM.Reason: Add subscriptionA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by UltrachopI am getting there slowly and would welcome any and all comments on my progress.  Today I did some more practice with the T weld and enclose a picture (sorry for resizing so small).
Reply:Craig,Thanks for the reply,   I am using 1/8" AL plate and I was using 1/8" filler on that weld.  I have as well 3/32" filler,  I was having trouble dipping the filler into the puddle consistantly without it melting to quickly and falling into the puddle? (I know let off on the peddle dummy), I am working on it, sometimes if works good sometimes not.  I will have a look for the handbook next trip to the candy store.I have to go to Quimby welding tomorrow as it seems they sold me (inadvertaintl) I am sure a 125cf bottle instead of a 150 (I didn't check) until I went to exchange it today at Airgas and they wouldn't exchange it for that reason and it was not an owner bottle???  go figure I just bought it.  I will get it straightened out tomorrowl.I will also retake the photos tomorrow (or make another coupon up) I am determined to get more consistant with the AL.  I am having a lot more difficulty with it then MS/SS.  I have a great appreciation for the "Welders" that make it so consistantly pretty!!TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:with ms you want a weld as thick as the thinner base metal because the weld is at least as strong  . ive heard that al welds are only 2/3 as strong as al  of the same dimension, so it would stand to reason that the weld neads to be 1/1/2 times as thick to be the same strength...this from an individual who has yet to try tigging al...
Reply:As Craig said, it makes sense that the AL weld bead would get added strength by having more depth in the thoat of the the weld (compared to MS/SS.  I am going to work with the balance control on the Dynasty to see if I can get a little less heat on the EN side and still get adequate wetting?  I hope to pick up some 2% ceriated tungsten today as well and give it a comparitive try.Lots to learn and make!  (looking for a good AL handtruck to modify into a Cart for my unit)TimPS: any good info/links on the "How to make a DIY" water cooler would be appreciated.  I know if I keep welding AL with this 150amp Air torch It isn't liable to last to long~A rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:If you search the pictures/projects forum you'll find at least one thread covering the build of a water cooler. No fillets but there's some full pen aluminium butts (and some common flaws) in this thread http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=18625. Might find it useful?As Craig said, throat thickness is the important bit. If the weld has fusion to/beyond the root then leg length is a convienient way to calculate throat. If there's LOF present then leg length is going to be pretty meaningless.Remember that ALL aluminium alloys are softened when welded- the HAZ is going to have annealed/partially annealed + overaged areas depending on alloy and temper. Typically the HAZ will be the weakest spot so a larger weld isn't necessarily going to be better.Filler choice makes quite a difference with fillets though. Taking 4043 and 5356 as the usual choices... 4043 is weaker than 5356 (as welded) but more importantly is also more brittle. In the case of a properly engineered joint, throat thickness could well be different depending on which filler was specified!Best thing you can do is break some of your welds open to have a look inside. If you can make out both cut edges of the smaller piece then you have LOF at the root. Depending on the filler used, weld size and quality you will hopefully have to do a 'nick break' to see the inside- cut part way through the weld face (aiming for the root) to a depth of 1 or 2mm before walloping itDropping the balance (more EP) isn't the way to go. Lower the frequency some for a wider puddle. Actually do both (one at a time) and note the differences- experimenting is the best way to get to grips with the multitude of options high end inverters offer
Reply:WOW, there's a commercial jet airplane floating in the Hudson River, NY. All passengers have been safely rescued by nearby water taxis.  Air temperature is 21*F. US Airways, Flight 1549. Initial reports think a flock of geese were struck. It's still floating, an hour after 'touchdown'.the AL weld bead would get added strength by having more depth in the thoat of the the weld (compared to MS/SS). No, I misled you. What I meant is all fillet welds need a throat no thicker than the thinnest base metal; no matter what metal.If you're having trouble with 1/8" filler melting before you can get it to the puddle, your torch angle is too far from vertical. And probably by a bunch, because I have that same trouble with 1/16" filler. As a matter of fact, trying to learn on 1/16" filler (after watching the pro use it) cost me an unimaginable amount of time, frustration and anger. One day, after talking to the weld shop, I stepped up to 3/32" filler. Within 30 minutes, I thought to myself: "Hey, I can weld aluminum." My point is: you're having that same problem with 1/8", a filler with a lot more mass. A fillet's shape magnifies, and contains, the heat.I don't let off the pedal when dipping, I think I'm using that to control the puddle size. Does anyone know if I'm supposed to move the torch back, to dip? On aluminum, I'm ok with mild steel. Or do I dip around the tungsten? TIA Craig If your balance is right, you'll have an oxide band running along the edges (toes) of the bead; something less than 1/8". I have nothing to offer about HZ, I'm stuck on 60.Remember that alum gets extremely hot, especially with a low mass, like your coupons. As you near the edge, it will be getting hot AND soft. I mentioned having a backing/heat sink if possible.Bottle regulations seem to vary with every county.5356 is not recommended for temps above 150*F. That isn't very hot, heck I've measured temperatures over 135* in my vehicle, after being parked in the sun. A metal weld that would be 'unhappy' in boiling water. I find that weird.LOF = lack of fusionHere's a link for a 'home made' water cooler. This is quite an article. George Bright aka Sundown has passed on. He had many internet friends. http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWeld...le.cfm?ID=12759-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Hotrodder/Craig,Thanks for the additional clarifying information. I will ad your comments to my "acrchive of useful info".(Craig said) If you're having trouble with 1/8" filler melting before you can get it to the puddle, your torch angle is too far from vertical. And probably by a bunch, because I have that same trouble with 1/16" filler. As a matter of fact, trying to learn on 1/16" filler (after watching the pro use it) cost me an unimaginable amount of time, frustration and anger. One day, after talking to the weld shop, I stepped up to 3/32" filler. Within 30 minutes, I thought to myself: "Hey, I can weld aluminum." My point is: you're having that same problem with 1/8", a filler with a lot more mass. A fillet's shape magnifies, and contains, the heat. Craig,  I misled you (again) I am was having some challenge with "premelting" (3/32) AL filler ahead of the puddle, I think I was just hanging around the puddle to long and not getting my rythm right.  I will practice more.  (I think I am going to do some more horizontal flat beads and then try a fillet or two at the end of my practice time (I seem to do better after a few repititions.Thanks for the water cooler links!TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:When you guys see posts like this: click on the red triangle in the upper right corner of THAT post. When that window opens, just type "Spam" and click on "Send Report". Burnit or Rojodiablo or another of the good moderators will delete the username and his posts.The problem with leaving a message: after the spam is removed, no one will understand what the heck you were talking about. Craig 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I have been practicing AL tig now for a couple of months and I am feeling much more confident with the consistancy of my horizontal fillet welds and outside corner beads on 1/8" material.  Today I was given some 1/4" angle material and some 1-1/2 tube that was a little over 1/8" thckness.  I set up a fillet weld on the 1/4" piece and set the Dynasty to 70 on the balance 200 freq and 200 amps max.  I used 1/8 inch fillet and the weld went pretty well (I didn't get the best penetration)  By the time I had run 7" of weld with one brief stop, the 3/32  2% Lanthenated tungsten was starting to break down (air cooled WP-17 torch)  I then set up to weld a piece of that tube to the 1/4 and it didn't go well at all.My conclusion was I am way over what the WP-17 will handle for Current using the 3/32 tungsten?? Am I correct?  Looks like I need a water cooled torch if I am going to do any of the 1/4" stuff?Can one of you Inverter experts clue me in with "real first hand experience" so I can take the appropriate action.Thanks,TimPS: I will post some photos of my welds tomorrow (my camera was with the Wife shooting photos of the Grandson!)My questionsA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Got tired of cooking my hand while trying to learn!  I got a good deal on a Binzel cooler and a 20 series WC flexhead Torch.  Got it hooked up today and now nothing gets hot in my hand and the only limitation is my "experience" and the duty cycle of the Dynasty!!Submitted the invoice to the bookeeper as "essential Fire Safety equipment"!!Tim Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:How long is your torch? The Dyn looks tiny, next to the cooler. The two Syncros in class are stacked, with the coolers on top, easily as tall as a fridge.It just occurred to me that if I hang my grinders (x6) like that, it would clear an entire 30" shelf. Now you need two more, a coarse and fine alum wheel. I posted this before, on Duane's thread; but it fits here. Attached ImagesLast edited by Craig in Denver; 04-03-2009 at 01:19 AM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:If you are learning and want some free literature and other reference material(especially tig) try the "Miller Welding" library at their homepage.
Reply:Pistolnoon,Thanks, yup, I have read/printed and purchased a library of info on the tig process.  Seems somehow I misplaced my Dynasty manual? (good thing about Miller) is they aren't bashful about making their manuals avaliable in .pdf.  Craig, Nice work of art!!  The image will always remind me of you (just kidding)--- the grinder hanger idea is stolen from the Projects Section!  You are right about the size of the cooler.  After welding for 20minutes I pulled the cap on the cooler and the coolant was still like it came out of a fridge!!  Unbelievable difference in the longevity of the tungsten (the little I have used it)  I have been practicing AL with the 1/8" tungsten, I am going back to 3/32 and 1/16" to see what the cooler torch has on the arc and such?  (Seems that artist that did those manifolds was talking about using 1/16" tungsten?  I still have a long ways to go (In my opinion) as to really making consistant AL welds in all positions---(got to go)----someone said that my FGS (favorite gun store) just got a shipment of ammo inA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Why I haven't been practicing much this last couple of days! I did do some today and will post my progress later tonight.Here is my #2 Grandson "Harrison Scott" born 4/9 at 12:30pm 8-9oz and healthy and Blessed! Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Congratulations on the new grandson Ultrachop!!  He's beautiful.We just found out earlier this week that our next grandchild is going to be a boy too.  Due in June/July.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks Duane,He is a definetly a keeper!!  Grandma is with him and his mom at the Hospital so I am getting a little veg time!  Did a little practice today (dang I was shakey!)  here is an attempt to  weld some scrap 1/4" channel cut-off to a piece of extruded 14 ga.  Ran some practice on the flat with 3/32 filler and then tried to run a bead against the web (yuk) coulldn't get it hot enough!  I finally preheated the thick stuff to about 150 and then the Dynasty did ok (Had to finesse the puddle a bit and my consistancy was off a bit  Set the the balance to 70 and the freq to 160, 1/8" tungsten and 1/8" filler.  (any suggestions)Tommorow I will do some more 1/8"Tim Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Here is a little practice I did on 1/8" as well.  (figure in another 200 hours or so I will start to to be consistent?  (I definitely like the new WCT) Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)