Failed 3G 211 test :-(

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Well getting right to it, for my 2nd post on this website(#1 http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=30014) i'm pretty new to welding, i've been in a welding school for about 4 months now and last week I started the FCAW 211 process. So, I took the test(45deg beveled butt joint with backing strip 1" thick) grinded it down/cut it and bent it. Both of my test pieces i cut cracked bad(like I could break it in half) but the cracks/breaks were about 1inch away from my actual weld.  Now i'm familiar with HAZ and thats my only thinking as to why it would fail in that area outside my weld. However, it puzzles me because I only ran 3-4 beads, then I let it cool for 10-15mins, and repeated. So at school, everyone had their theories..too hot..too cold, the pieces I cut for the bend test were too thick(3/8") etc.. etc..or.. could it simply be a batch of bad metal?This is my first test that I have failed, and while I am not killing myself over it, i'm puzzled to say the least. Edit: and it was Vertical UPAlso, any hints or tips for this process you guys would like to share is more than welcome Last edited by tbiggs; 04-28-2009 at 01:44 AM.
Reply:can you post any pics? what did your weld instructor say he thought it might be?  Oh and don't beat yourself over failing on a weld test, nothing to be ashamed of. EVERYONE I know and work with has busted a test or a dozen. Last edited by BNF; 04-28-2009 at 07:20 AM.Hillbilly Fabworks
Reply:What are the general guidelines for conducting this sort of test?  How are the tests controlled/outlined so that they are consistent from one test in one shop to another?
Reply:Any preheat?  I just did a spray arc test plate and it had to be heated to 300F before welding.  It did fail at the root but thats just because I didnt run it hot enough and had to many volts.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Did you have any bevel, use the right gas or filler metal? I always run weld tests at a little higher voltage the I would regularly. Make sure the you alternate which side you start on, so you dont end up with a huge crater on one side and a lump on the other. Grind off any saw marks and remove ALL millscale from the surrounding areas of the weld area. Also how thick was your base material?Go hot, or go home!
Reply:Originally Posted by BNFcan you post any pics? what did your weld instructor say he thought it might be?  Oh and don't beat yourself over failing on a weld test, nothing to be ashamed of. EVERYONE I know and work with has busted a test or a dozen.
Reply:I know it takes a whole lot of failure to learn the right way of getting it done! You may have had a slag inclusion, or left a nick in the root from removing the backing that could leave a stress riser, perhaps the preheat or interpass heat wasn't right. You can keep guessing on and on. We just have to learn to love the practice! Start right back at the beginning and go over every step in the process in your mind. Absolutely clean, shiny steel welds the best. Preheat, I will say needs to be 150*. Clean after each and every pass until there is nothing left but steel. No more than 2 - 4 consecutive passes and monitor interpass temperature with a tempil stick. Read your D1.1 at 3.5 & refer to table 3.2 if you have the book. We used ASTM A 572 steel. I would hazard to guess keeping it at or about 300* for interpass temp. After all the prep, it comes down to your bead-generator, I mean you! Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:211 is not the most ductile of filler metals. How thick was your plate? Here is an excerpt from there specifications:One of our most popular all-purpose Innershield® wires. Versatile wire suitable for all-position welding of light gauge steel or thin plate. Maximum plate thickness for diameters up to .045” (1.1mm) is 5/16” (7.9mm). For diameter range .068-3/32” (1.7 - 2.4mm) maximum plate thickness is 1/2” (12.7mm) Low spatter and excellent weld appearance. Ideal for many applications and an easy wire for operator trainingMost plate tests are performed on 3/8" or 3/4". Here is a link to the wire spec.http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...et.aspx?p=9818"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." -- Seneca the Younger
Reply:211 is a pretty forgiving wire as far as that goes.  I would say it was an anomaly in the base metal.   NR-232 gave me HUGE fits when trying to get cert's.   then one day after about 4 full rolls of it I just "got it" and it was on from there.don't beat yourself up to badVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Little update for you guys, I came back to school and kicked that 3G test in the teeth.(well I still have to wait for the inspector, but my instrcutor says it's fair and he hasn't been wrong yet)Only changes that I made was running it hotter, and doing narrower beads. Glad to be done with that for now, and onto overhead.Sorry, for the poor quality pics, as much as im a digital kid. never had the need for a good camera :/ so this was taken with my cellphone pic. and bad lighting lol. Thanks for all your input guys! Any tips on overhead?(lookin to start it on monday)
Reply:Oh, I also was extremely(maybe too much) cautious with how hot I got my piece. I only did one bead, then i'd let it cool for 5mins. That test took FOREVER lol
Reply:How wide was your weave there its hard to tell.   211 is much more forgiving about slag inclusions than other wires so its hard to tell how large your weave wasVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:That phot is eerily similar to Samm's cracked weld issue a few months ago.   Problem ended up being something different but I don't think heat or anything was an issue. I'd say it was a fault in the metal,  possibly the sheet was drawn too cold, or it was seam welded and ground at that point.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT