Wanting to buy some shop tools, need some advice.

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Quick question first, did the esab migmaster 215 replace the 250?   I couldnt really find any differences in the specs and noone seems to sell the 250 anymore.Im wanting to buy some shop tools and need to get some advice. Ill be funding the shop, and a friend will be the certified welder. Im wanting to buy a decent MIG welder capable of welding 1/2"(rarely), and most of the welding being around 1/4" mild steel and thiner. On an average day the welder will be used for welding 1/8 mild steel plate to 1/4" mild steel. Tig welding is starting to look appealing so later on Id like to have a machine capable of this. And welding aluminium. (But in no way are either of these NEEDED)    Ive been looking into esab's and Millermatics for buying new for their infinite heat settings. Also for used Ive found some lincolns, millers, and esabs all for about 1000-2000. But for under the price of a new millermatic 252 I can buy a used esab 3 phaze 300 multiprocess welder, off of ebay. So I just dont know wich way to go. Should I spend alot of money on a really good specific welder or get the multiprocess welders with more amps used? Im needing a plasma cutter capable of cutting 1" at a decent speed, that will later be put on a torchmate table. Im really uninformed about plasma cutters, any info on them would be great. As far as what kinda specs I need to cut what.Any and all info/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Reply:You'll need to set your priorities for this. You really won't find an AC/DC capable tig that will run wire well. And you really won't find a mig set up designed to run alum ( usually with pulse) that will run tig. That means either you need to compromise somewhere, or you are looking at 2 machines.Alum will really be your sticking point. How much and what type do you need/want to do. Basic alum can be done with a spoolgun. "Advanced" alum usually requires a dedicated pulsed mig setup or a dedicated AC/DC tig.A single shop machine capable of doing mig and tig says XMT 304 to me. You can probably pickup a nice lightly used XMT304 and outfit it with a feeder and air cooled DC tig set up for less than the MM252 would run you and you'd be able to run stick as well if needed. I  often see rigs like this under $2K and with a bit of hard shopping I could see it go down to $1500. You could mig alum if you added a spoolgun and controler to the rig for alum, but AC tig is out as it's only a DC machine.  The XMT's are an excellent Mig, DC tig, stick machine and have a very good reputation in the industry.I'm not familiar with the Esabs, so I can't help much there.As far as plasma to cut 1" quickly, that will be a BIG one. Expect to need a fairly large electrical feed for it and you'll need a large air compressor to feed it as well, especially to run it on a table for production work. I don't think my PM1000 would be enough machine for a steady diet of 1" ( recommended at 3/4", max at 1", sever @ 1 1/4"). You'd probably need something at least in the 1250 ( 7/8" recommended) or 1650 ( 1 1/4" recommended) range. If you want to do alum or stainless, figure you'll need a bigger machine than you will for steel. I originally chose my PM 1000 based on cutting a steady diet of 3/8" SS on a table for example. A better idea exactly what thickness you plan to cut regularly is probably needed. Jim will probably come along and tell you which Hypertherm current product will work on a table based on what you plan to cut daily..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:What are you making that requires 1" plate and would it be cheaper to outsource the cutting when ordering steel? My machinist bud has thick plate either torch cut or waterjetted to spec before delivery.CAD drawing goes out, part shows up, no problem.His objective is profit, not tying up the shop with gear that won't pay for itself quickly.I'd buy separate welding machines as needed and take slow steps. That lets you leave them set up for each task at separate workstations, and if one goes down you have the others.Equipping a shop is much more than throwing money at big ticket items. It's also throwing money at MANY small ticket items! Unless you are rich, buy what you NEED as you NEED it.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou'll need to set your priorities for this. You really won't find an AC/DC capable tig that will run wire well. And you really won't find a mig set up designed to run alum ( usually with pulse) that will run tig. That means either you need to compromise somewhere, or you are looking at 2 machines.Alum will really be your sticking point. How much and what type do you need/want to do. Basic alum can be done with a spoolgun. "Advanced" alum usually requires a dedicated pulsed mig setup or a dedicated AC/DC tig.A single shop machine capable of doing mig and tig says XMT 304 to me. You can probably pickup a nice lightly used XMT304 and outfit it with a feeder and air cooled DC tig set up for less than the MM252 would run you and you'd be able to run stick as well if needed. I  often see rigs like this under $2K and with a bit of hard shopping I could see it go down to $1500. You could mig alum if you added a spoolgun and controler to the rig for alum, but AC tig is out as it's only a DC machine.  The XMT's are an excellent Mig, DC tig, stick machine and have a very good reputation in the industry.I'm not familiar with the Esabs, so I can't help much there.As far as plasma to cut 1" quickly, that will be a BIG one. Expect to need a fairly large electrical feed for it and you'll need a large air compressor to feed it as well, especially to run it on a table for production work. I don't think my PM1000 would be enough machine for a steady diet of 1" ( recommended at 3/4", max at 1", sever @ 1 1/4"). You'd probably need something at least in the 1250 ( 7/8" recommended) or 1650 ( 1 1/4" recommended) range. If you want to do alum or stainless, figure you'll need a bigger machine than you will for steel. I originally chose my PM 1000 based on cutting a steady diet of 3/8" SS on a table for example. A better idea exactly what thickness you plan to cut regularly is probably needed. Jim will probably come along and tell you which Hypertherm current product will work on a table based on what you plan to cut daily.
Reply:If you don't hear from Jim Colt on this, PM him. He might not notice your question on plasma size the way this is titled. If anyone here can answer questions on CNC tables and plasma sizes, he can. There is a relationship between power output and cut speed on CNC tables. Some speed/power settings will give you the best cut finish, and other speed/power settings will give you the best production speed at a lower but still acceptable cut finish. The size of the plasma is determined by the thickness of the material you plan on cutting most primarily as well as max thickness. My PM 1000 was what Hypertherm suggested as the best choice for cutting 3/8" stainless at the time to give the best cut finish at a reasonable production speed. The machine would still cut 1" even though the recommended  thickness is 3/4". If I did so, my surface finish quality would drop and my cut speeds would decrease significantly. I took that trade off because I didn't really plan to need to cut 1" steel regularly, if at all. Any of the larger systems would have also worked, but since I didn't plan to cut material thicker than 3/8" SS regularly, the added cost of the machine really wouldn't have helped me. I could have gone with a lower cost unit, but then my cut speeds would have dropped off as well as max thickness I could cut..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If this is a full-on commercial shop then I'd buy as much "amperage" as I could afford so as to run low in the duty cycle. I wouldn't buy a self-contained MIG for the first machine, and nothing less than 250 amps.You are talking about big money for OTHER tools, so consider the largest SINGLE PHASE (for ease of location) power source you can afford.Self-contained MIGs mostly exist to reduce acquisition cost by combining feeder and power source in one box.The XMT idea plus a suitcase feeder would give you much better mobility, and the feeder would be easy to run at the end of as much cable as you wish or from another power source if you use an appropriate cable or purchase a voltage-sensing feeder.I'll let the Miller gurus (I ain't one) recommend specific feeder models.