Millermatic 211 versus Passport quick comparison

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I have a Millermatic Passport, an older one, not the new Passport Plus, that I use on the welding truck.  My friend often helps out on jobs and really liked welding with my Passport. His usual wire machine is an old Lincoln 110v fluxcore welder, I think it's a 3200HD or something like that.  Last week he bought the new Millermatic 211 with M10 mig gun and today he brought over his new machine and generator, a Coleman Powermate 5000.   We re-wired an extension cord so he can run the 211 on 220v from the generator and then we welded some scrap with the new 211.  Some of the scrap we welded was some Simpson Strong Ties, about 18" long strips of galvanized approx 20ga steel.  We butt seamed them together vert-down along their lengths with about a 1/32" gap, using .030" E71T-GS self shielding fluxcore wire.  First, we tried the AutoSet feature, which I have never used on a machine before.  It wanted to feed way too much wire for the voltage and we couldn't get it to weld nice on Auto Set, so we switched it to regular mode and after a little playing with the settings the machine welded very nice.   We did continuous 18" beads on the 20ga without stopping.  We also welded some 3/8" scrap vert up and some 3/16" vert up too.  The machine has plenty of guts and welds smooth and handles the thin as well as the thick.  Overall I was impressed with the machine, especially for it's price.For kicks, I brought out the Passport and plugged it into his generator on the same ext cord we used with the 211.  My Passport had .035 E71T-GS wire in it.   I have an upgraded 15' Bernard Q400 gun and 15', 2ga work cable and heavier clamp on it.  We seam welded the same Simpson Strong Ties with the Passport.   I'm used to running the Passport daily lately on 18 ga structural sheetmetal stud framing on the job I'm doing for a local contractor.   Some differences I noticed were that the Passport runs alot hotter than the 211.   We set the 211 about 2 steps up on both the voltage and wire speed compared to the Passport settings on the Strong Ties.  The Passport was dialed way down.  Both welded equally well at their own settings.   The Passport burns the wire down smoother than the 211.  I like the Passport's arc a little better, it's a little softer.  The 211 felt more stiff, not bad at all, just not the soft smooth arc I'm used to with the Passport.  The 211's arc was more like my Millermatic 175 I would say, which does have a nice arc, just a little crisper than the Passport.Overall, I would say the 211 is a great little machine and it welded pretty darn good.  Considering we were comparing it to a machine that cost more than twice as much (I paid about $2000 for the Passport and QGun, he paid about $900 for the 211 and M10 gun), the 211 held it's own very well.  For a semi-portable dual-voltage machine for under 1G, I think it's an excellent choice.     I'm looking forward to us doing mobile fab/repair jobs together again and swapping machines back and forth and get more hands on comparison between the 2 machines, once this construction project is done and I go back to servicing my own customers.Last edited by DesertRider33; 05-02-2009 at 09:01 PM.Reason: edited titleMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Desert Rider,My main question is why in the world would you use a Q400 gun on a passport?Seems the Q200/Q300 (same size) would have been a much better option.I run a Q300 with 15' lead on my MM251.  There are actually times I'll switch back the the M25 so as to not have to deal with the "bulk" of the Q300.  Just seems to be a bit of overkill for a sub 200A machine.Actually, I'm surprised at your overall findings.  Per specs the Passport Plus is rated at 150A @ 21.5 V with a 20% duty cycle.  The MM211 is rated at 150A @ 23.5V with a 30% duty cycle.  Max amp range for the MM211 is 210 vs 180 for the PP.It may not sound like much but those extra couple of volts available on the MM211 should yield considerably better performance.  The MM211 is also capable of pushing more wire (460 ipm vs 400 ipm on the PP).It doesn't surprise me that the autoset feature didn't perform correctly with self shielded wire.  Machine (auto-set feature) was designed for gas shielding unless I missed something.Your observations are your observations, however all available specs would lead one to believe that the MM211 is a slightly more robust machine.  Input amps at rated output for the MM211 is 24.3A vs 18A for the PP.   That's not to say the PP is not a fine machine (really a purpose built machine), it is and the owners seem very happy with them.  If you'd said it appeared that the PP would stand up better to field use, I'd have to agree 100%.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I didn't mean to imply that the 211 is not a robust or capable machine.  I know from the specs it has more top end than the Passport.   But we were not welding max thickness in a single, long pass, so whatever the top end is on the 211, it was not noticed in our informal 'test'.I did not know that about the Auto Set not working on fluxcore.  Makes sense that it didn't work for us now that you mention it's intended purpose.  I sent him home with my bottle of 85/15 Ar/CO2 so he can try some ER70S-6 in it.  Maybe the Auto Set will work better with solid wire and gas.  Obviously, Auto Set isn't something I've ever messed with before, even though I have welded with another friend's Millermatic 180 but I did not use the Auto Set, if his has that feature.  Don't remember if it does or not.  My Millermatic 175 doesn't have that feature.I bought the Q400 because I liked the torch and wanted something that would stand up to hard mobile onsite use, which it does.   It also doesn't heat up and mess up the wire feeding when I run bead after bead without stopping to let it cool.   The little M10 torch used to heat up and stop wanting to feed wire smoothly.  It was also too short.  Could I have got away with a Q200?  Maybe.  A Q300? Defininately.  If I were to do it over again, I would probly choose the Q300, but really, there is very little difference between the Q300 and Q400 (I have a Q300 on the MM350P) and the price was the same so I got the one I liked.   I'm very happy with it.Last edited by DesertRider33; 05-02-2009 at 10:02 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DesertRider,Being happy with your equipment is what's important.  You're definitely right, you're not likely to overheat a Q400 with a Passport.I have a Q400 that I use on the MM251 (normal gun is the Q300) which I use for .045 wire and spray.  I haven't overheated the 400 with that setup.From user reports, the new PP is a kick butt aluminum machine with a spoolgun.  If you get a chance, it'd be interesting to hear how the MM211 does with aluminum.  It appears that both the PP and MM211 both use the Spoolmate 100.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Yes, they both use the Spoolmate 100.  Mine, however is not the Passport Plus, so it does not accept a spool gun at all and does not have the hot start and slow run-in speed control circuitry and other main board mods Miller did to the machine to help make the Passport Plus so good on aluminum (from what I hear).   We can't do a direct comparison, but if my friend decides to pick up a Spoolmate 100 for his 211, I'm sure we will be trying it on aluminum!     My other friend does have a Passport Plus, so maybe we can get him over to do a direct comparison with the 211 some day, IF one of them buys the spool gun!While we're talking about Passport and Passport Plus, what I would really love to see is a Passport Pro model, one targeted even more to professional mobile welding, one that comes with the much better wire drive mechanism of the Suitcase feeders and has a little more top end output, maybe 200 to 220 amps, and comes standard with a 15' QGun with Centerfire frontend, a thicker 15' work cable and a better clamp and can accept a Spoolmatic 15A/30A spool gun, via a 10-pin 24vdc output connector, instead of the Spoolmate 100, or, what would be really trick, if could also accept a push-pull gun.   Imagine being able to hook up a Python to a Passport and push-pull mig aluminum in the field.  Wouldn't that be the cat's meow??  Last edited by DesertRider33; 05-02-2009 at 10:28 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks for the comparison.  I would like a passport.  I was going to buy one to replace my twenty some year old SP100, but it welds too nice and just keeps going.As far as mig guns go, I bought a 300 amp lincoln gun when I bought my LN-25 twenty some years ago.  I finally replaced the gun when the outside rubber got worn through from dragging it around. I have a few mig guns and I go with the smallest that will do the job with out toasting my hands.  They get heavy after a day of welding.  I DO like the bernard guns, especially the way the contact tip goes in, I can set the depth how ever I want.I still want a passport.  Maybe the arc is smoother on the passport because the inductance is set for Co2 on the passport.   As far as autoset, I don't need it or want it.  I want to dial in my own best arc.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Yes, they both use the Spoolmate 100.  Mine, however is not the Passport Plus, so it does not accept a spool gun at all and does not have the hot start and slow run-in speed control circuitry and other main board mods Miller did to the machine to help make the Passport Plus so good on aluminum (from what I hear).   We can't do a direct comparison, but if my friend decides to pick up a Spoolmate 100 for his 211, I'm sure we will be trying it on aluminum!     My other friend does have a Passport Plus, so maybe we can get him over to do a direct comparison with the 211 some day, IF one of them buys the spool gun!While we're talking about Passport and Passport Plus, what I would really love to see is a Passport Pro model, one targeted even more to professional mobile welding, one that comes with the much better wire drive mechanism of the Suitcase feeders and has a little more top end output, maybe 200 to 220 amps, and comes standard with a 15' QGun with Centerfire frontend, a thicker 15' work cable and a better clamp and can accept a Spoolmatic 15A/30A spool gun, via a 10-pin 24vdc output connector, instead of the Spoolmate 100, or, what would be really trick, if could also accept a push-pull gun.   Imagine being able to hook up a Python to a Passport and push-pull mig aluminum in the field.  Wouldn't that be the cat's meow??
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparky#1I would like to see the Passport serve as a wire feeder also like an 8VS,that would come in handy especially with the XMT 304 you have.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RThanks for the comparison.  I would like a passport.  I was going to buy one to replace my twenty some year old SP100, but it welds too nice and just keeps going.As far as mig guns go, I bought a 300 amp lincoln gun when I bought my LN-25 twenty some years ago.  I finally replaced the gun when the outside rubber got worn through from dragging it around. I have a few mig guns and I go with the smallest that will do the job with out toasting my hands.  They get heavy after a day of welding.  I DO like the bernard guns, especially the way the contact tip goes in, I can set the depth how ever I want.I still want a passport.  Maybe the arc is smoother on the passport because the inductance is set for Co2 on the passport.   As far as autoset, I don't need it or want it.  I want to dial in my own best arc.David
Reply:Thanks DR33Nice of you to post this. Makes a great addition to the search-able database.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Hmm... Now that's an interesting idea...  Kinda like the Pipe Pro 304 can be used a self-generator, or be plugged into shore power and used as an XMT without running the engine, if you get it with the dual power option.   Interesting idea applying that concept to the Passport, enabling it to be powered from an outside source.  That would keep the weight and size lower, but still allow it to put out bigger power when connected to another power source.  Very interesting...
Reply:I have the Spool Gun iffin' your bud wants to try it before buyingEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:That makes me feel good about my 211 purchase last week. (My first Mig Welder) . If you get a chance I can't wait to hear how it does on Aluminum. My local welding store suggested it would make nice looking welds with no strength and told me to pass on expecting much.
Reply:It will be interesting to try it on aluminum.  My guess is the starts will be cold but the rest of the weld will be fine, up to maybe 3/16" material thickness, provided proper joint prep (gapped and/or v-grooved for butt joints).   That is just my guess.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1I have the Spool Gun iffin' your bud wants to try it before buying
Reply:No problemo- my info is on my websiteEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I have a question about my passport, i have a problem with the tip getting buildup running flux core. I can run about 20-24" then a have to stop pull out the tip run a cleaner thru it then start back. I started running it on a Miller 185 Blue Star, i have since started running it off a 250 Bobcat. I only use flux core because i use it for equipment repair inthe feild. I have questioned the delear a purchased it from and noone can tell me a reason. I have swapped to a Tweco gun and now i converted it over to Bernard consumables due to the ease of removing the tips to clean. Any advice would be very appreaciated.
Reply:What wire are you running and what size tip?Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Swamp ratI have a question about my passport, i have a problem with the tip getting buildup running flux core. I can run about 20-24" then a have to stop pull out the tip run a cleaner thru it then start back. I started running it on a Miller 185 Blue Star, i have since started running it off a 250 Bobcat. I only use flux core because i use it for equipment repair inthe feild. I have questioned the delear a purchased it from and noone can tell me a reason. I have swapped to a Tweco gun and now i converted it over to Bernard consumables due to the ease of removing the tips to clean. Any advice would be very appreaciated.
Reply:The auto set feature doesn't work with flux core welding.  I've got the spool gun, but haven't used it yet.I haven't welded much with mine yet, but so far I really like it.
Reply:I'm running McKay .035 T-GS and it does leave a black sooty deposit inside the tip and on the end of the wire.  I didn't notice as much of it with the Radnor .030 T-GS or the .035 Lincoln NR-211.   The McKay wire runs fine though.My Bernard torch with Centerfire frontend the tip doesn't clog up as much as the stock M10 gun with Miller tips.   Tips don't last nearly as long in the M10.  The M10 also is more finnicky about feeding the wire with the gun in awkward positions or with the hose twisted around.  The Bernard doesn't care, it just feeds the wire the same speed regardless of what else is going on.   That is definitely a help with all the crazy positions I have to get into with it.   I think the reason is the Bernard liner floats freely on both ends, so it adjusts itself inside the torch hose.  The Miller liner appears to be fixed on end so that's my theory as to why it doesn't like the hose being twisted.    I had to switch back to the M10 the other day when a twisted up piece of wire from the end of the spool got stuck in the Bernard liner and I didn't have a spare liner on the the truck and no time to mess with trying to fix it.   That M10 was very frustrating to weld with cause I had to be very careful about what the hose was doing and how I was holding the gun or it would feed slow or uneven.  I also had to re-position the machine alot more cause the torch is only 10' long.  I'm used to using all 15' of the QGun.  I wouldn't mind having a 20 footer if I thought it would feed good.Another great thing about the QGun is the rotatable neck, which really helps get the gun into weird places.  I have several necks for my QGuns too, different angles of curve and different lengths.  I find the 60 degree neck works best but I like the 45 too.  The 30 doesn't have enough curve most of the time, but some times it could be good.  I just got the flexible neck for the QGun, going to try it next week.  I think it will be great cause I can have all the neck angles at once without changing anything.  I'll see how it goes.  Miller really needs to start including Bernard QGuns with the Passport!  Are you listening, Miller ??MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by Sroufe7The auto set feature doesn't work with flux core welding.  I've got the spool gun, but haven't used it yet.I haven't welded much with mine yet, but so far I really like it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Swamp ratI have a question about my passport, i have a problem with the tip getting buildup running flux core. I can run about 20-24" then a have to stop pull out the tip run a cleaner thru it then start back. I started running it on a Miller 185 Blue Star, i have since started running it off a 250 Bobcat. I only use flux core because i use it for equipment repair inthe feild. I have questioned the delear a purchased it from and noone can tell me a reason. I have swapped to a Tweco gun and now i converted it over to Bernard consumables due to the ease of removing the tips to clean. Any advice would be very appreaciated.
Reply:Sorry for taking so long to respond, been away from home. The wire a have now is Harris E71TGSF5  in .035  .  I have tryed others as well and all do pretty much the same. The drive tension is on 3 now , if i go less the wire will not feed. I have swapped to the knurled roller and not made any difference.  I seen the comment about the   Bernard fluxcore tip holder, is that a different tip to the standard Bernard ?
Reply:Yes, the Bernard fluxcore tip holder (part number NS-FLX) takes the place of the gas nozzle and protects the gas diffuser and threads from spatter damage while using self shielding wire.  The tip holder is much smaller than a gas nozzle and allows the tip to access smaller areas.  It also eliminates grounding out that base of the tip or the diffuser on the work.  This part is only for use on Bernard guns or guns that have been converted to Bernard frontend.  Miller sells a cheap plastic version of it for their M10 gun.3 on the wire tension isn't all that high, but it's more than I run.  I'm usually down around 1 or 2 with .035 wire.  Are you sure you have the drive roller installed in the right direction?   The v-knurled drive roll has a small groove on one side for .030 and .035 wire and a second groove for .045 wire.  The groove you intend to use goes in first, toward the inside of the machine.  The size labeling on the side of the roll applies to the groove on the opposite side, so you should be seeing the text of the size you intend to use from outside the machine.   The smooth v-groove drive roll has a groove for .023 wire and a second groove for .030 and .035 wire and the labeling is opposite on that one too.Also, when you first start up the machine, it cycles through the settings on the wire mode button on the front of the machine.  Sometimes mine will go to stainless mode on it's own and if I don't check it, I find it acts like it doesn't want to feed the wire and the wire keeps wanting to burn back into the tip.   The button is also very easy to bump and accidentally put it on the wrong setting.   Set it to mild steel mode for steel wire, both solid and fluxcore.Another thing to look at is how you have your wire spool installed.  If it doesn't seat all the way down, when you close the cover, it can rub on the cover and want to hang up at certain points as it goes around.  Same thing will happen if you don't get that little round nub on the spool axle inserted into the hold on the plastic spool properly, as that causes the spool not to seat all the way down.  The plastic spools of wire I get have 2 different holes on opposite sides from eachother.  They are not equal distances from the center of the spool and only one hole will work right with the Passport drive axle nub.   The other one won't seat.Last edited by DesertRider33; 05-12-2009 at 08:40 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith opThanks for the info. Desert Rider, I will be back in the shop in a couple days and will check these things.  I will also find out about the flux nozzle. I let you know how it does.